All Things Coronavirus (Part 2)

[InhaleExhale 28]

12 hours ago, laylalex said:

I am safer and I am keeping my community safer by being vaccinated.

Why do you believe that to be true? Based on what?

You actually suffered a severe adverse reaction and you still believe you are "safer". 

The manufacturers even admit there is no data on transmission of the "virus" and you still believe you are keeping someone else "safe".

And you got no answer as to why you actually believe that.

I cannot wrap my head around this cognitive dissonance.

[TBoneTX 45,312]

It's good to be curious, but let's avoid badgering, please.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

6 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

Why do you believe that to be true? Based on what?

You actually suffered a severe adverse reaction and you still believe you are "safer". 

The manufacturers even admit there is no data on transmission of the "virus" and you still believe you are keeping someone else "safe".

And you got no answer as to why you actually believe that.

I cannot wrap my head around this cognitive dissonance.

cognitive dissonance ! Not to be confused with appeal to authority fallacy 

[laylalex 7,285]

14 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

It's good to be curious, but let's avoid badgering, please.

Thank you. I have blocked this person but I have seen her message to me quoted. I have been through a significant amount of distress over the spring and summer that my excellent team of doctors helped me through. Their opinion is that I was far better being vaccinated than not. I happen to agree. My reaction was severe and RARE and most significantly not deadly. COVID can be deadly, even to people my age and in good shape. I will not take that gamble. I now regret even sharing my story because I had not realized that someone else might weaponize it as "proof" that the vaccines (and YES it is a vaccine, it took me literally 5 seconds to find that myth debunked) are harmful. I have today -- on my vacation! -- reached out to some of my friends and family asking them not to share my story because I can see what could be done with it the hands of someone who is not necessarily acting in good faith.

 

Frankly, as someone who has lost people to COVID and seen others I care about suffer with the effects of long COVID, I'm offended but I do not want to risk violating the TOS. I have nothing to prove to anyone on here. I fully expect to be mocked but I don't really care at this point. 

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

Getting vaccinated (or not, for the time being), is one's personal choice.  One must weigh the risks/rewards between getting sick from a genetically manufactured virus or a man-made drug that hasn't been tested nearly long enough.  But with the current global survival rate at 99.946%, I plan to wait a bit before I induce the risk of an adverse reaction from an unknown drug.  

 

The numbers have been obfuscated quite a bit, but are still worth looking at and understanding OUTSIDE of the fear-mongering brought about daily in the MSM.

[InhaleExhale 28]

3 hours ago, laylalex said:

COVID can be deadly, even to people my age and in good shape. I will not take that gamble.

According to the latest CDC data your chances of survival are 99.95% = IFR of 500 in 1,000,000. -> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html. 

Rendering it "gamble" of 0.05% lethal risk for people your age. That is if you avoid treating this disease early with approved, safe and effective drugs which would lower that 0.05% risk by another 85-90% resulting in a statistical risk for people your age of 0.005%-0.0075%. 

 

3 hours ago, laylalex said:

YES it is a vaccine, it took me literally 5 seconds to find that myth debunked

This will remain another unsupported claim unless you can share a credible source to back it up. And no, neither facebook fact checkers nor a news article is a credible source. You can review my provided sources in one my previous comments where I claimed that according to it's legal definition and description by the manufacturer plus by sec.gov it is not qualifying to be considered a "vaccine". Where is your proof that it is one?

 

3 hours ago, laylalex said:

I now regret even sharing my story because I had not realized that someone else might weaponize it as "proof" that the vaccines [...] are harmful.

Are you saying that your reaction is not qualifying as harm? Or that 435,077 AE's and 4,605 deaths are not something that equals harm? -> https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D8;jsessionid=2C21310CEFC5B9826FE407B07CE1

 

 

3 hours ago, laylalex said:

reached out to some of my friends and family asking them not to share my story because I can see what could be done with it the hands of someone who is not necessarily acting in good faith.

I find that your included accusation extremely dangerous and potentially very harmful.

I don't know what your definition of "good faith" is but mine includes to be honest and prevent harm to others.
Adverse events need to be reported and shared to avoid other people being injured. 
Was your injury even reported to VAERS? Did it register after it was reported, did anyone even check on this?
There are so many people all over the US and globally that have not only suffered severe adverse reactions after being injected but thousands have lost their lives! And these are only the reported numbers of a system that is estimated to register less than 1% of the AE's.

It could well be tens of not 100's of thousands of lives lost just in the US due to these untested injections. Not addressing this is absolutely horrifying. Children have lost their parents. Parents have lost their children. Couples have lost each other. So many have been left dealing with physical damages and following disabilities for the rest of their lives without someone actually wanting to hear this. 
Here is just one source out of many examples: https://www.c19vaxreactions.com/
Do you want to allege they are all lying? I don't think so. Do you want to allege that's all just a "coincidence"? I don't think so either. These are people just like you, but they weren't as lucky as you in their experience after injection. They were injured way more severe. They want to be heard but not many are listening.

And some are literally turning a blind eye to this which is just atrocious.

These people took this injection because they believed other's misinformation without actually researching. And because there are many like this, i.e. people who don't verify if something is factually accurate, many of those injuries will follow. Therefore it is irresponsible to say these injections are safe, especially when one cannot even produce any data to support this (false) claim. 
 

3 hours ago, laylalex said:

as someone who has lost people to COVID and seen others I care about suffer with the effects of long COVID

I do wonder if they have attempted early treatment with the safe and approved drugs that are available to treat this disease very effectively or were they told by their doctors to go home, and "isolate" and come back once they turned blue cannot breathe anymore.

 

[InhaleExhale 28]

4 hours ago, LIBrty4all said:

Getting vaccinated (or not, for the time being), is one's personal choice.

Exactly. My opinion is it should always be one's personal choice and not just for the time being. And by law, it is one's personal choice. Much more legally protected even when it comes to unapproved vaccines/treatments like these ones.

 

4 hours ago, LIBrty4all said:

The numbers have been obfuscated quite a bit, but are still worth looking at and understanding OUTSIDE of the fear-mongering brought about daily in the MSM.

Numbers are inaccurate, tests aren't even adequate, official opinions keep on flip-flopping and no scientific data is produced to back those up...I don't watch MSM as they are the uterus of misinformation.
I am all for rational debates based on hard data and scientific evidence. 

How else would science work?
You come up with a hypothesis and then you see if you can produce evidence to confirm whether its true or not.

In contrast a ton of false claims have been made here and essentially rendered themselves to be misinformation since none of them were supported by conclusive scientific data. 
 

[Neonred 3,564]

On 7/30/2021 at 2:02 AM, InhaleExhale said:

I couldn't give you a purer "I will not" as an answer.

Given the data we have from the clinical trials plus additional studies, combining that with other facts like absence of liability, lack of necessity etc. there is literally zero benefit but huge amounts of risks. For anyone.

I have only researched Pfizer and Moderna so I can only speak about those. 

I want to stress that neither of those are actual "vaccines", which contain a weakened live or dead virus and prevent infection and transmission of a specific disease. That is not the case here. Here you get injected with instructions for your own body to create a pathogen hoping that your body then will answer with an immune response to the toxin it is creating. But none of the trials have data on immune response or prevention of infection or transmission.

 

Here is the first glaring error.  The mRNA of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines instructs cells to produce the spike protein which is NOT a pathogen.  The spike protein is simply a group of amino acids on the outside of the virus that allows it to attach and interact to certain human cells.

 

The J&J vaccine goes about this in a different way, using DNA inside a live adenovirus cell.  It also instructs some of the bodies cells to produce the spike protein.

 

Another company, Novavax, has a different approach.  Their vaccine, although not yet approved as they are still in phase 3 trials, contains cultivated spike proteins that are injected.  This vaccine has probably the most promising future for keeping up with new variants.

 

 

[InhaleExhale 28]

2 hours ago, Neonred said:

Here is the first glaring error.  The mRNA of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines instructs cells to produce the spike protein which is NOT a pathogen. 

Can you share your source that confirms it is NOT a pathogen?

I read several studies that show the opposite. Here are a couple:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7547916/
(--> BBB stand s for blood brain barrier)
"SARS-CoV-2 spike protein triggers a pro-inflammatory response and upregulation of matrix metalloproteinases in human brain endothelial cells"
"SARS-CoV-2 spike protein induces loss of the BBB integrity"
".. in regard to the brain endothelium, the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein induced destabilization of the BBB, promoted a pro-inflammatory status [...] the opening of the BBB, hints at the possible means in which the SARS-CoV-2 pathogen could also neuroinvade."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8091897/#R2
"SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Impairs Endothelial Function via Downregulation of ACE 2"

https://www.regulations.gov/document/FDA-2020-N-1898-0246
This is one of the many warnings and concerns by the medical body about possible harm due to the risks of the damage that the spike protein causes:
"As important as it is to quickly arrest the spread of the virus by immunizing the population, it would be vastly worse if hundreds of millions of people were to suffer long-lasting or even permanent damage to their brain or heart microvasculature as a result of failing to appreciate in the short-term an unintended effect of full-length spike protein-based vaccines on these other organs."
I don't think he was paid any attention to, and I am not aware of any effort by the manufacturers to rule out these known risks. Just like they have ignored many other risks that they were warned about.
VAERS data shows an abnormal amount of myocarditis especially in male adolescents after receiving this injection with exactly what he warned about: permanent damage to their heart microvasculature since heart tissue does not regenerate.

 

As I wrote in my comment which you quoted, I can only speak to Pfizer and Moderna since I have not researched the other candidates that much.

Btw, you are using the terms "approved": none of these injections are approved. I have heard many sources claim that, even MSM and it is entirely false. No approval has been granted for any of them.

What else to you believe to be an error in my claims and why?

[TBoneTX 45,312]

A noncontributory post has been removed.

Final reminder that good discussion can be had here WITHOUT badgering others or diminishing their personal experience.

[Neonred 3,564]

7 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

Can you share your source that confirms it is NOT a pathogen?

I read several studies that show the opposite. Here are a couple:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7547916/
(--> BBB stand s for blood brain barrier)
"SARS-CoV-2 spike protein triggers a pro-inflammatory response and upregulation of matrix metalloproteinases in human brain endothelial cells"
"SARS-CoV-2 spike protein induces loss of the BBB integrity"
".. in regard to the brain endothelium, the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein induced destabilization of the BBB, promoted a pro-inflammatory status [...] the opening of the BBB, hints at the possible means in which the SARS-CoV-2 pathogen could also neuroinvade."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8091897/#R2
"SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Impairs Endothelial Function via Downregulation of ACE 2"

https://www.regulations.gov/document/FDA-2020-N-1898-0246
This is one of the many warnings and concerns by the medical body about possible harm due to the risks of the damage that the spike protein causes:
"As important as it is to quickly arrest the spread of the virus by immunizing the population, it would be vastly worse if hundreds of millions of people were to suffer long-lasting or even permanent damage to their brain or heart microvasculature as a result of failing to appreciate in the short-term an unintended effect of full-length spike protein-based vaccines on these other organs."
I don't think he was paid any attention to, and I am not aware of any effort by the manufacturers to rule out these known risks. Just like they have ignored many other risks that they were warned about.
VAERS data shows an abnormal amount of myocarditis especially in male adolescents after receiving this injection with exactly what he warned about: permanent damage to their heart microvasculature since heart tissue does not regenerate.

 

As I wrote in my comment which you quoted, I can only speak to Pfizer and Moderna since I have not researched the other candidates that much.

Btw, you are using the terms "approved": none of these injections are approved. I have heard many sources claim that, even MSM and it is entirely false. No approval has been granted for any of them.

What else to you believe to be an error in my claims and why?

Looks to me like you are confusing pathogens and irritants.  Irritants are great at producing an inflammatory response, but they don't have to be pathogens.

 

Of course these vaccines have not been given full approval, but they have been approved for emergency use as the COVID pandemic has been labeled an emergency.

 

I also understand that the FDA is not really in any hurry to provide the full approval that you are asking about.  The vaccine is in use and millions of doses have been given so at this point this doesn't seem to be priority #1.

[yuna628 9,676]

A spike protein is not a virus and a virus is not a spike protein. Combine the two however, and you might have the start of something. When most people see the image of a coronavirus, they see the floating ball with the fancy party cocktail toothpicks sticking out of it. That doesn't show you what's inside the floating ball and it doesn't show you how the virus works to infect its hosts. Imagine that the spike proteins are like octopus suckers but can also interact and change to better make the virus effective. They help the virus attach to the cells it would like to do business with, and transmit the material that ultimately makes you sick or kills you. A spike protein is a glycoprotein which contains something as simple as carbs (sugar) and made up of a lot of amino acids. The head of the 'toothpick' has an important function as well as the 'stalk'. Mutated changes to the spike proteins can at any time be harmless to you and detrimental to the virus or very harmful to you and more effective to the virus. Delta's mutations are one such win in the virus column. There are a few others on the horizon.

 

Without the spike protein, this virus would be pretty useless in terms of its survival. But the spike protein itself is also almost useless without the stuff inside the virus. Note I said almost useless. The body does find it irritating (I mean I'd imagine you would find an octopus sucker toothpick irritating). The body has the capability to recognize (if shown) that the spike protein itself does not belong there. There are several kind of viruses that utilize spike proteins, and of course there are other viruses that do not. The point of the new vaccine is to give the body a very timely message from the Mission Impossible Team that they need to be wary and destroy the next spike protein they encounter instead of saying "YUMMY SUGAR", and upon receipt of this message, it self destructs. With this new information, the T-cells get to work. Like any vaccine, side effects are the result of your immune system ''getting to work''. Depending on how you feel can range from just fine to pretty crappy. And in some rare cases the irritating effect can send the system to work a little too much. Like layla, my husband's system partied a little too hard, resulting in completely reversible side effects within a couple months. These are exceptions and not the norm. Most of us will feel quite unwell for a day or two, and some will feel nothing. If you think that's bad, I can take you down the rabbit hole of what the lack of a simple vitamin can do to the human body.

 

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

10 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

A noncontributory post has been removed.

Final reminder that good discussion can be had here WITHOUT badgering others or diminishing their personal experience.

Some people need to grow up and not be so sensitive.  I know you cannot say that as a mod, so I am here to provide that service.

Lots of actual facts being brought out in this thread, there should be no room for emotion.  This is science we are discussing, and people's lives ARE at stake, one way or the other.  The focus should be on doing everything to maximize one's likelihood of survival without potentially life-long ill effects.

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

Also, the variants are not "on the horizon", they are already here.

 

Already identified: Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma, Eta, Lota, Epsilon, kappa, zeta.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/variant-info.html

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

16 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

Exactly. My opinion is it should always be one's personal choice and not just for the time being. And by law, it is one's personal choice. Much more legally protected even when it comes to unapproved vaccines/treatments like these ones.

 

Numbers are inaccurate, tests aren't even adequate, official opinions keep on flip-flopping and no scientific data is produced to back those up...I don't watch MSM as they are the uterus of misinformation.
I am all for rational debates based on hard data and scientific evidence. 

How else would science work?
You come up with a hypothesis and then you see if you can produce evidence to confirm whether its true or not.

In contrast a ton of false claims have been made here and essentially rendered themselves to be misinformation since none of them were supported by conclusive scientific data. 
 

All very true.  And even now, the FDA & CDC have determined that the PCR tests we have been subjected to for over a year are producing too many false positives and are recalling the tests by December.  Hell, the tests were never intended to be used to diagnose covid.  It's no wonder they aren't working right.

 

We have all been lied to on a massive scale.  Some are content for the misinformation to continue, so they can feel better inside.  Others want the truth to come out so we can make informed decisions.  Thank you for sharing what you have discovered.  Just understand it will NOT be received well here, because it doesn't fit the narrative of some.