All Things Coronavirus (Part 2)

[Dashinka 24,513]

On 5/8/2021 at 12:40 PM, Steeleballz said:

 

  Well like I said, we will reach a point one way or another where most people have formed immune response to the virus. That will either be by vaccination or by acquiring the infection. At that point it won't be a pandemic, although the longer we let the virus hang around, the more likely it becomes endemic. Either way, masks will probably be optional at that point.

 

  If I had to refine my guess, I'd say probably once kids start getting the vaccine.

In Michigan they are not counting those that recovered from the virus as part of their "herd immunity" count.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

4 hours ago, Dashinka said:

In Michigan they are not counting those that recovered from the virus as part of their "herd immunity" count.

 

  The science behind immunology tells us they should be doing that. The initial vaccine guidelines even said people who had recovered from Covid in the previous 4 months did not need to take the vaccine at that time because they already had an immune response. 

[Dashinka 24,513]

18 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  The science behind immunology tells us they should be doing that. The initial vaccine guidelines even said people who had recovered from Covid in the previous 4 months did not need to take the vaccine at that time because they already had an immune response. 

Yeah, our governor follows her own science.  We are being told you must get the vaccine even if you had Covid.  I have heard several anecdotal reports of people recovered from the Vid, still showing antibodies, and their own Drs. telling them to avoid the vaccine.

 

https://www.freep.com/story/news/2021/05/06/why-contracting-covid-does-not-help-herd-immunity-goals/4959881001/

Edited May 10, 2021 by Dashinka

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

15 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Yeah, our governor follows her own science.  We are being told you must get the vaccine even if you had Covid.  I have heard several anecdotal reports of people recovered from the Vid, still showing antibodies, and their own Drs. telling them to avoid the vaccine.

From what I have witnessed by Fauci, the CDC, and even some more local experts is that they can pretty much make up whatever "science" they want people to follow that day.  Just look at the masks/no masks/double masks debate that has gone on the past year.  Or telling people they cannot go to the beach.  

[yuna628 9,676]

25 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Yeah, our governor follows her own science.  We are being told you must get the vaccine even if you had Covid.  I have heard several anecdotal reports of people recovered from the Vid, still showing antibodies, and their own Drs. telling them to avoid the vaccine.

 

https://www.freep.com/story/news/2021/05/06/why-contracting-covid-does-not-help-herd-immunity-goals/4959881001/

I know many people that contracted COVID, some mild and some severe. They were all encouraged by their doctors and ordered by their employers to receive the vaccine regardless, after waiting a period of time after recovery. They experienced significant side effects to both the first and second shot. One was sick enough that they probably should have gone to the hospital to be monitored. Still, they each recovered within 24-48hrs and despite any harrowing experience (even for those that never contracted COVID or never tested positive the side effects can still be quite jarring) there is nothing inherently negative in the receiving the vaccine. 

 

For those that are experiencing LongCOVID, there have been reports that the vaccine may to some degree, improve or even reverse symptoms immediately or over time. And I know of one person that nearly died from COVID that also received the J&J and felt no side effects. Contracting COVID does not seem to produce a long-lasting immunity. Those who had it, may be immune temporarily, but will likely need to receive the vaccine eventually. There is also statistical proof that individuals who contracted one variant of COVID were not protected from other variants. The vaccine, and any subsequent boosters can do that.

[yuna628 9,676]

53 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  The science behind immunology tells us they should be doing that. The initial vaccine guidelines even said people who had recovered from Covid in the previous 4 months did not need to take the vaccine at that time because they already had an immune response. 

Theoretically, correct me if I'm wrong or misremembering... there may be some people who recovered from COVID (mild or no symptoms) that have little to no remaining antibodies and could benefit from the vaccine?

[laylalex 7,285]

My sister and her boyfriend both had COVID earlier this year, and recovered fully. My sister had it worse and it took her longer, but she made it through. They both had their first jabs nearly four weeks ago, after getting the all clear from their doctors to do so. Neither has had a serious reaction to the vaccine, usual arm pain, feeling rundown, but they both were fine within 36 hours. On the other hand, nearly 3 weeks later I'm still suffering side effects and as far as I know, I didn't have COVID. 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

26 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Theoretically, correct me if I'm wrong or misremembering... there may be some people who recovered from COVID (mild or no symptoms) that have little to no remaining antibodies and could benefit from the vaccine?

 

  At some point yes, just as vaccinated people may also require a booster at some point. Four months I believe was considered a time frame where most people would still have antibody circulating after recovering from infection. IIRC, that was only a recommendation when vaccine was difficult to come by so they could more effectively use the limited amounts.  

[Steeleballz 7,550]

31 minutes ago, laylalex said:

My sister and her boyfriend both had COVID earlier this year, and recovered fully. My sister had it worse and it took her longer, but she made it through. They both had their first jabs nearly four weeks ago, after getting the all clear from their doctors to do so. Neither has had a serious reaction to the vaccine, usual arm pain, feeling rundown, but they both were fine within 36 hours. On the other hand, nearly 3 weeks later I'm still suffering side effects and as far as I know, I didn't have COVID. 

 

   Anecdotally, many people who had Covid thought the first vaccine shot was worse than the second. Maybe the first vaccine was acting more like the "booster" in that case, and stimulating an already strong existing immune response.

[Dashinka 24,513]

8 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  At some point yes, just as vaccinated people may also require a booster at some point. Four months I believe was considered a time frame where most people would still have antibody circulating after recovering from infection. IIRC, that was only a recommendation when vaccine was difficult to come by so they could more effectively use the limited amounts.  

How many re-infections have there been?

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

How many re-infections have there been?

 

  Not sure, but there have been some. Circulating antibody diminishes after some time, probably a significant range of time variation in different people.

 

  I'm more interested in whether reinfections are less virulent. The hope would be that even if the immune response diminishes over time, the "memory" effect of the acquired immune response would cause it to ramp up faster next time, get rid of the virus quicker, and not have as much collateral damage that occurred with the less specific inflammatory response in (some) people who contracted the virus for the first time. 

 

  That has been the pattern with many viruses and bacteria that were introduced to human populations. Separate from the herd response is that our immune systems are designed to deal with pathogens that way. We have trouble with novel ones that we have never encountered before as a species, but we do tend to adapt over time in many cases, but not all. Depends on the virus to some extent too. 

[laylalex 7,285]

18 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   Anecdotally, many people who had Covid thought the first vaccine shot was worse than the second. Maybe the first vaccine was acting more like the "booster" in that case, and stimulating an already strong existing immune response.

It has occurred to me that both my husband and I had it over Christmas 2019, when we were both incredibly ill seemingly out of nowhere. At the time I said it was like no flu I'd ever had before, and we had both had our flu shots. I wasn't able to walk more than about 100 yards before becoming exhausted, fever for well over a week, body aches, etc. It was such a long time ago now relatively speaking. Fingers crossed shot two is much easier on my system.

[yuna628 9,676]

32 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

How many re-infections have there been?

There has been small studies. There have also been studies about reinfections of different variants. Most say we need a lot more time and a lot more data and better systems to study it. There's also been cases of people getting infected inbetween vaccines. Here is something from just Ireland:

 

Quote

At least 514 people have been reinfected with Covid-19 here since the pandemic began, and the rate of reinfection has escalated since Christmas.

Figures from the Department of Health have shown some reinfections barely three months apart, while January this year, when record numbers of cases of the virus were diagnosed, also saw the highest number of reinfections.

While case numbers fell after that peak, the reinfection rate has increased and was at its highest level in March.

Data extracted from the Health Protection Surveillance Centre’s Computerised Infectious Disease Reporting System (CIDR), up to March 24, showed 514 reinfections, which accounts for just 0.02% of all confirmed cases of coronavirus since the first confirmed case here over 14 months ago.

"Fifty-two percent of reinfections occurred within six months of the initial infection and 48% occurred after six months," said a spokesperson for the department. "The mean number of days between infections was 191, the median was 177, and the range was 85-364 days. 

Due to the possibility of asymptomatic infections in addition to the possibility that not all symptomatic patients presented for a Covid-19 test or were notified as such, it is conceivable that more reinfections may have occurred."

Almost half of those who were later reinfected first caught the virus in April 2020 (223), while the highest monthly total of reinfections was in last January, with 209. That figure included 36 people who were diagnosed with their first infection just last October.

While overall case numbers fell in February, so did reinfections, although 102 were still recorded, including eight people who first contracted the virus just last November, while in the first 24 days of March another 59 reinfections were recorded, including three people first infected last December.

The first reinfections were spotted last July but the percentage of overall cases that were reinfections has increased in recent months, from 0.2% in January to 0.4% in February and 0.5% in the proportion of March for which data was available.

 

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40285061.html

13 minutes ago, laylalex said:

It has occurred to me that both my husband and I had it over Christmas 2019, when we were both incredibly ill seemingly out of nowhere. At the time I said it was like no flu I'd ever had before, and we had both had our flu shots. I wasn't able to walk more than about 100 yards before becoming exhausted, fever for well over a week, body aches, etc. It was such a long time ago now relatively speaking. Fingers crossed shot two is much easier on my system.

I thought shot two would be easier based on the first experience and was disappointed. It's probably better you expect to feel horrible and be surprised if you don't.

[Dashinka 24,513]

34 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

There has been small studies. There have also been studies about reinfections of different variants. Most say we need a lot more time and a lot more data and better systems to study it. There's also been cases of people getting infected inbetween vaccines. Here is something from just Ireland:

 

I thought shot two would be easier based on the first experience and was disappointed. It's probably better you expect to feel horrible and be surprised if you don't.

Interesting study in Ireland, they did seem to leave out what happened to those that were re-infected.

[LIBrty4all 3,749]

VAERS has the info in their database, but it's not easy parsing all the data.  It is clear that there have been re-infections as well as covid deaths after inoculation, but so far the numbers are lower than the covid death rate the past year.