Florida Family Living an Immigration Nightmare

[bowflex 0]

I definitely feel horrible for them, but in the end I guess it can't come down to getting bad information from one source. Heck, when my wife told me she called the customer support line and was told when her interview was, I made sure to call myself to double check, and we did that with any information coming from the Consulate or from someone dealing with our case. We also researched and hired a lawyer that had great references and that was a member of a national immigration lawyers' group, and he led us through a much more complicated case than they had just fine.

Even though it seems like such a small thing to separate a family, one has to look at how this case could look to an immigration official (I can't believe I'm defending them for once haha). When filling out the fiance form, did she fill out her name or her married name? Did she just ignore the many places it states fiance? I know when filling out the forms for my wife's CR-1 it was obvious that it was a spousal visa. I hope she gets her waiver, but it just seem like they didn't do their due diligence to confirm every action.

[Caladan 19]

I think they filed the form when they were both single, so it would have made sense to fill out the form saying 'fiance.' By the time it got to the consulate, they probably hadn't looked at the paperwork since they sent it. I think the charge of fraud probably stands, but I can certainly believe that the couple didn't intend to get away with anything, and that's why I feel bad for them.

Plus, it's a sad state of affairs when calling the goddamn hotline doesn't suffice to get you straight answers.

[almaty 19]

I agree..the hotline=bullshit

[bowflex 0]

I still remember calling the Montreal Consulate when the actual Consul informed us to do so, and some lady with attitude lying to my wife about adding an extra 6 weeks to the wait for a review of the documentation. It's horrible to think that some of these people lose track that they're actually giving hope then destroying actual lives.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

That's exactly it. A snafu anywhere else in your life, with the possible exception of insurance, can be figured out quickly and resolved. Even taxes are easier to fix than this. Here, a screw-up means you accidentally committed a felony.

And people apparently have no sympathy for it. That's why I can't understand this subconcious desire to defend what is essentially an evil bureaucracy that is designed in such a negligent way (not least through the likes of the mis-information line) to trip people up while they're busy trying to dance to 5 different tunes at once!

[aya*abouelnasr 0]

I can't imagine being in their shoes. How awful they must be feeling, thinking they did everything right and then something like that happened.

When people ask my how our immigration prosess is going, I tell them he has his interview date and we are preparing for that day. Everyone seems to think it's so easy. How easy is it to convince someone who doesn't know you or your SO, that you have a real and loving relationship with someone you haven't seen for 6, 12. 18 months?

[bowflex 0]

That's exactly it. A snafu anywhere else in your life, with the possible exception of insurance, can be figured out quickly and resolved. Even taxes are easier to fix than this. Here, a screw-up means you accidentally committed a felony.

And people apparently have no sympathy for it. That's why I can't understand this subconcious desire to defend what is essentially an evil bureaucracy that is designed in such a negligent way (not least through the likes of the mis-information line) to trip people up while they're busy trying to dance to 5 different tunes at once!

The system definitely needs to be reformed, and they definitely need to train their people better, but there is always a way to find out the correct information. You'd think on something that could put any type of bump in the road for their case, they would've double and triple checked all information that they were given. At the very least they could've researched lawyers as well. In the end, it is definitely party the system's fault for this, but the USC and his SO are not without fault either.

We researched everything, even after my lawyer advised us on the steps that we were going to take, and we even redid many of the forms that were filled out to make sure they were correct to every dot on the lower case i. I just don't see how they can completely blame bad information without blaming themselves for not making absolutely sure.

[ivona 0]

Look guys, I'm sorry to burst your bubble but if you think US bureaucracy is evil you should count your lucky stars, because you really have not had a bad red tape experience...

Go to any ex- socialist country and you'll see the meaning of bad bureaucracy and what it REALLY means to not have a way of getting information, no transparent procedural info or clear instructions on filling out forms.

So, I just don't buy the whole US bureaucracy is evil argument, because frankly for me the immigration process has been a breeze compared to Croatia's red tape.... I'm not saying that that's the reason we shouldn't try and make it "easier" still, but let's stop turning kittens into tigers.

For me it's about responsibility, why would you take a word of some low grade official? I mean, ok, it's their job to know the rules and so on but come on.... this process is too important to just take it all without double checking....

These people have a paper pushing job like millions of others in this country, with average pay and two 15 minute breaks a day. Why would you assume that they will treat your case as something special when they have hundreds of others just like it, is beyond me....

Let's get real people.

[lucyrich 20]

Awhile back I posted this thread about a proposal to reform things by simplifying and combining the fiancee/spousal visas, to eliminate this problem.

After you've had your head down deep in this immigration stuff for very long, you start to think "obviously, everyone knows you need a different visa to enter as a fiancee than as a spouse, and it's fraud of the first order to enter on one type of visa when you only qualify for the other". And in a little while more, the immigration antibodies will have invaded your thinking so much that you think it's normal and acceptable that the petition for an immigrating spouse is titled "Petition for Alien Fiance(e)".

But in the bigger picture, the whole structure should be set up to allow desireable people to enter easily with a minimum of hassle, while keeping undesireable people out. Everyone should have to provide enough information to determine which category they fall into.

If a person went through all the process and met all the admissibility requirements to enter as a fiancee, then I don't see how a marriage ceremony (that you had to swear you were going to go through with within 90 days of entering ANYWAY) suddenly makes that person's entry bad for national security, or bad for our economy, or bad for our national morals, evil, something to justify a lifetime ban, or whatever. I DO, however, fully understand how the marriage cermony makes the person absolutely ineligible to enter under the provisions of current law.

The law is long overdue for a change, so that what's bad for national interests is illegal, and what's not bad for national interests is not illegal. The requirements should be simple enough that the full-time employees of the help line can know simple things well enough to give accurate advice. The penalty for following the advice of the misinformation line should NOT be so severe and irreversible.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Look guys, I'm sorry to burst your bubble but if you think US bureaucracy is evil you should count your lucky stars, because you really have not had a bad red tape experience...

Go to any ex- socialist country and you'll see the meaning of bad bureaucracy and what it REALLY means to not have a way of getting information, no transparent procedural info or clear instructions on filling out forms.

So, I just don't buy the whole US bureaucracy is evil argument, because frankly for me the immigration process has been a breeze compared to Croatia's red tape.... I'm not saying that that's the reason we shouldn't try and make it "easier" still, but let's stop turning kittens into tigers.

For me it's about responsibility, why would you take a word of some low grade official? I mean, ok, it's their job to know the rules and so on but come on.... this process is too important to just take it all without double checking....

These people have a paper pushing job like millions of others in this country, with average pay and two 15 minute breaks a day. Why would you assume that they will treat your case as something special when they have hundreds of others just like it, is beyond me....

Let's get real people.

Bureaucracy, in general, is evil - I wouldn't restrict it solely to the US. That said - the USCIS is a ####### among bastards - visa applications are confusing, complex and often ambiguous - especially when you consider that even with the fiance visa there are several forms and documents you are required to submit which aren't mentioned explicitly on the paperwork - and if you follow the instructions to the letter you can still be hit with an RFE.

I'm just judging the bureaucracy by what it does. A person can make genuine a mistake on their paperwork (quite apart from an overt attempt to deceive) and receive in return what amounts to a 10-year prison sentence.

Edited June 26, 2007 by erekose

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The system definitely needs to be reformed, and they definitely need to train their people better, but there is always a way to find out the correct information. You'd think on something that could put any type of bump in the road for their case, they would've double and triple checked all information that they were given. At the very least they could've researched lawyers as well. In the end, it is definitely party the system's fault for this, but the USC and his SO are not without fault either.

We researched everything, even after my lawyer advised us on the steps that we were going to take, and we even redid many of the forms that were filled out to make sure they were correct to every dot on the lower case i. I just don't see how they can completely blame bad information without blaming themselves for not making absolutely sure.

I can agree with that.

[mawilson 2,133]

That's exactly it. A snafu anywhere else in your life, with the possible exception of insurance, can be figured out quickly and resolved. Even taxes are easier to fix than this. Here, a screw-up means you accidentally committed a felony.

And people apparently have no sympathy for it. That's why I can't understand this subconcious desire to defend what is essentially an evil bureaucracy that is designed in such a negligent way (not least through the likes of the mis-information line) to trip people up while they're busy trying to dance to 5 different tunes at once!

People don't take immigration seriously. They should. Most Americans (including my wife before

we started the process) believe that getting married is all a foreigner needs to get a green card.

(Needless to say, she was in for a rude awakening when I explained to her what the process entailed.)

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Awhile back I posted this thread about a proposal to reform things by simplifying and combining the fiancee/spousal visas, to eliminate this problem.

After you've had your head down deep in this immigration stuff for very long, you start to think "obviously, everyone knows you need a different visa to enter as a fiancee than as a spouse, and it's fraud of the first order to enter on one type of visa when you only qualify for the other". And in a little while more, the immigration antibodies will have invaded your thinking so much that you think it's normal and acceptable that the petition for an immigrating spouse is titled "Petition for Alien Fiance(e)".

But in the bigger picture, the whole structure should be set up to allow desireable people to enter easily with a minimum of hassle, while keeping undesireable people out. Everyone should have to provide enough information to determine which category they fall into.

If a person went through all the process and met all the admissibility requirements to enter as a fiancee, then I don't see how a marriage ceremony (that you had to swear you were going to go through with within 90 days of entering ANYWAY) suddenly makes that person's entry bad for national security, or bad for our economy, or bad for our national morals, evil, something to justify a lifetime ban, or whatever. I DO, however, fully understand how the marriage cermony makes the person absolutely ineligible to enter under the provisions of current law.

The law is long overdue for a change, so that what's bad for national interests is illegal, and what's not bad for national interests is not illegal. The requirements should be simple enough that the full-time employees of the help line can know simple things well enough to give accurate advice. The penalty for following the advice of the misinformation line should NOT be so severe and irreversible.

Amen.