polygamy I-130 Denied after RFE

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

5 hours ago, Nitas_man said:

Oh 

 

For immigration purposes this would not be considered a legal marriage.

 

Under Islamic law don’t you have to divorce her, she has to remarry, consummate the new marriage, then divorce him, before you and she can legally re-marry?  That’s a tough rule.  Maybe you can divorce and have a non-Islamic marriage in another country.

This is even stated in the DoS reciprocity page for Pakistan:

If a husband and wife divorce and subsequently wish to remarry each other, the wife must have married another person in the interim and that intervening marriage must be legally terminated by proper divorce proceedings or death.  The interim marriage must be consummated and represent a bona fide relationship, according to Section 7 of the MFLO.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/Pakistan.html
 

It does seem divorce and remarriage in a country that allows it civilly would be the best route. Not sure how practical this is. If she got a visitor visa to the US there’s Vegas, could do both in a day I think, but a visitor visa would be difficult to get I guess.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by SusieQQQ

[Needhelp2020 0]

32 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

This is even stated in the DoS reciprocity page for Pakistan:

If a husband and wife divorce and subsequently wish to remarry each other, the wife must have married another person in the interim and that intervening marriage must be legally terminated by proper divorce proceedings or death.  The interim marriage must be consummated and represent a bona fide relationship, according to Section 7 of the MFLO.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/Pakistan.html
 

It does seem divorce and remarriage in a country that allows it civilly would be the best route. Not sure how practical this is. If she got a visitor visa to the US there’s Vegas, could do both in a day I think, but a visitor visa would be difficult to get I guess.

 

 

Thanks for your help and sharing informative link.

[Orangesapples 1,954]

Is a divorce necessary? Can't they just remarry? 

[Boiler 45,525]

28 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

Is a divorce necessary? Can't they just remarry? 

They need to divorce so they can marry.

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

1 hour ago, Orangesapples said:

Is a divorce necessary? Can't they just remarry? 

They are already married under Pakistani law. So they can’t just marry again. The collision of customary /cultural/religious marriages, with marriages acceptable for US immigration purposes creates messy situations like this where two different things need to be satisfied at the same time. 

Edited November 8, 2020 by SusieQQQ

[Nitas_man 3,100]

9 hours ago, Needhelp2020 said:

Thanks for your help and sharing informative link.

You know the rules in your home country.  This is a tough break.  Not the first time it’s come up here.

 

8 hours ago, Orangesapples said:

Is a divorce necessary? Can't they just remarry? 

Not in Pakistan

 

I didnt really know how this works (marriage / divorce law in Islamic countries) until we lived in Saudi.  That’s a tough rule.

 

I only suspected it would be applied here, didnt know DOS specifically spells it out.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Nitas_man

[Nitas_man 3,100]

10 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

This is even stated in the DoS reciprocity page for Pakistan:

If a husband and wife divorce and subsequently wish to remarry each other, the wife must have married another person in the interim and that intervening marriage must be legally terminated by proper divorce proceedings or death.  The interim marriage must be consummated and represent a bona fide relationship, according to Section 7 of the MFLO.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/Pakistan.html
 

It does seem divorce and remarriage in a country that allows it civilly would be the best route. Not sure how practical this is. If she got a visitor visa to the US there’s Vegas, could do both in a day I think, but a visitor visa would be difficult to get I guess.

 

 

You verified what I suspected.  Good link.

Based on that I’m not sure an immigration attorney would be of any help in this case. These two need to figure out what it will take to make their marriage legally valid.  Not something I’d want to face.  Wow

[Orangesapples 1,954]

1 hour ago, Nitas_man said:

You know the rules in your home country.  This is a tough break.  Not the first time it’s come up here.

 

Not in Pakistan

 

I didnt really know how this works (marriage / divorce law in Islamic countries) until we lived in Saudi.  That’s a tough rule.

 

I only suspected it would be applied here, didnt know DOS specifically spells it out.

Couldn't they get married in a different country without getting divorced first? 

[Crazy Cat 41,886]

11 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

Couldn't they get married in a different country without getting divorced first? 

That is a good question since the current "marriage" is invalid per US law.

[Villanelle 4,122]

52 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

Couldn't they get married in a different country without getting divorced first? 

 

39 minutes ago, Lucky Cat said:

That is a good question since the current "marriage" is invalid per US law.

I dont think so. I remember looking into this topic in the past (theres probably some threads floating around they should search for and if possible reach out to the posters to see what was done to resolve it if any were from the same country) But I remember it being as SusieQQQ described- there are various requirements. One is showing all previous marriages have been terminated (divorce/annulment/death). Another requirement is showing your current marriage is valid. The two requirements can overlap in ways but they cant cancel each other out. Theres also a bit about polygamy in general. The wording about it can be confusing but it basically says if you are in an active polygamy situation its a no. If you have been in one in the past its OK as long as you establish you only have one marriage currently and do NOT intend on getting back into a polygamy situation in the future. To establish that seems to be nothing more then saying so and them believing you (no waiver or official documentation- just your sworn intentions that they believe). 

 

So as pointless as it seems to have to divorce wife 2 (who is the only wife right now) and then remarry wife 2 it has to be done. Wife 2 marriage is not valid for USCIS purposes. It doesnt become valid just because wife 1 passed away and wife 2 is the sole wife. 

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

1 hour ago, Lucky Cat said:

That is a good question since the current "marriage" is invalid per US law.

It’s still an existing legal marriage in Pakistan.

 

Plus the US already knows about the marriage, OP has correctly always been honest. They will need evidence it ended.

Edited November 8, 2020 by SusieQQQ

[Needhelp2020 0]

47 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

 

I dont think so. I remember looking into this topic in the past (theres probably some threads floating around they should search for and if possible reach out to the posters to see what was done to resolve it if any were from the same country) But I remember it being as SusieQQQ described- there are various requirements. One is showing all previous marriages have been terminated (divorce/annulment/death). Another requirement is showing your current marriage is valid. The two requirements can overlap in ways but they cant cancel each other out. Theres also a bit about polygamy in general. The wording about it can be confusing but it basically says if you are in an active polygamy situation its a no. If you have been in one in the past its OK as long as you establish you only have one marriage currently and do NOT intend on getting back into a polygamy situation in the future. To establish that seems to be nothing more then saying so and them believing you (no waiver or official documentation- just your sworn intentions that they believe). 

 

So as pointless as it seems to have to divorce wife 2 (who is the only wife right now) and then remarry wife 2 it has to be done. Wife 2 marriage is not valid for USCIS purposes. It doesnt become valid just because wife 1 passed away and wife 2 is the sole wife. 

Thanks for your input.

But USCIS is unable to accept that.I explained them that my first wife passed away in 2014 and I have only wife left is my second one.I have provided them all the documents including marriage certificates of my both weddings and death certificate of my first wife.

 

seems like I have to go through the proper requirements like remarry to my wife again through islamic law and that whole process is again at least 7 to 8 months before I file new I-130.

 

any thoughts?

[Needhelp2020 0]

53 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

 

I dont think so. I remember looking into this topic in the past (theres probably some threads floating around they should search for and if possible reach out to the posters to see what was done to resolve it if any were from the same country) But I remember it being as SusieQQQ described- there are various requirements. One is showing all previous marriages have been terminated (divorce/annulment/death). Another requirement is showing your current marriage is valid. The two requirements can overlap in ways but they cant cancel each other out. Theres also a bit about polygamy in general. The wording about it can be confusing but it basically says if you are in an active polygamy situation its a no. If you have been in one in the past its OK as long as you establish you only have one marriage currently and do NOT intend on getting back into a polygamy situation in the future. To establish that seems to be nothing more then saying so and them believing you (no waiver or official documentation- just your sworn intentions that they believe). 

 

So as pointless as it seems to have to divorce wife 2 (who is the only wife right now) and then remarry wife 2 it has to be done. Wife 2 marriage is not valid for USCIS purposes. It doesnt become valid just because wife 1 passed away and wife 2 is the sole wife. 

Hi Villanelle, can you please share that link if you still have?

thanks 

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

31 minutes ago, Needhelp2020 said:

Thanks for your input.

But USCIS is unable to accept that.I explained them that my first wife passed away in 2014 and I have only wife left is my second one.I have provided them all the documents including marriage certificates of my both weddings and death certificate of my first wife.

 

seems like I have to go through the proper requirements like remarry to my wife again through islamic law and that whole process is again at least 7 to 8 months before I file new I-130.

 

any thoughts?

Yes. That is the case. Again, this has been explained to you a number of times now but maybe if I phrase it a bit differently it will help: uscis does not accept the marriage to the second wife as legitimate for immigration purposes because it was entered into when your first wife was alive, therefore is polygamous and is contrary to US public policy, however, the marriage is a valid marriage in your home country so it needs to be terminated, and then with both of you free to marry in the eyes of both the US and Pakistan, then you can enter into a second marriage valid for everyone concerned.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by SusieQQQ

[Needhelp2020 0]

9 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

Yes. That is the case. Again, this has been explained to you a number of times now but maybe if I phrase it a bit differently it will help: uscis does not accept the marriage to the second wife as legitimate for immigration purposes because it was entered into when your first wife was alive, therefore is polygamous and is contrary to US public policy, however, the marriage is a valid marriage in your home country so it needs to be terminated, and then with both of you free to marry in the eyes of both the US and Pakistan, then you can enter into a second marriage valid for everyone concerned.

 

10 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

Yes. That is the case. Again, this has been explained to you a number of times now but maybe if I phrase it a bit differently it will help: uscis does not accept the marriage to the second wife as legitimate for immigration purposes because it was entered into when your first wife was alive, therefore is polygamous and is contrary to US public policy, however, the marriage is a valid marriage in your home country so it needs to be terminated, and then with both of you free to marry in the eyes of both the US and Pakistan, then you can enter into a second marriage valid for everyone concerned.

 

 

SusieQQQ

thanks for your explanation and quick response.