Biden wins presidency, Trump denied second term in White House, Fox News projects

[moxy 1,051]

7 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

In weighing that evidence versus yours (nothing), it's a pretty tough choice.

The issue is that you are so far right of center, that anything that is actually "center" appears left to far-left to you. You're not alone in this, and to be fair there are lefties out there who are so left of center that anything to the right appears right to far-right to them. You have a lens you see the world through, and you don't have the ability or desire to see it through any other lens, or even without a lens.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

5 minutes ago, moxy said:

The issue is that you are so far right of center, that anything that is actually "center" appears left to far-left to you. You're not alone in this, and to be fair there are lefties out there who are so left of center that anything to the right appears right to far-right to them. You have a lens you see the world through, and you don't have the ability or desire to see it through any other lens, or even without a lens.

It's funny you say this when its obvious you've neither watched nor read anything cited. One of the key people demonstrating you were wrong about your conclusions of no coordinated media bias was "far-right" Jon Stewart. 

 

Really puts in perspective the accuracy of the things you're saying, especially given the context of my discussion about the media isn't about left-right, another poster's is.

 

I think I've indulged the bad faith debate long enough.

[moxy 1,051]

25 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

I think I've indulged the bad faith debate long enough.

I know I have.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

On 12/6/2020 at 1:45 PM, laylalex said:

I don't usually quote myself (people might think you're drunk, for one), but I think this is the issue in PA:

But like you I am not a lawyer (I did take the LSAT once but that doesn't count) and this is only what I think is happening from reading around a bit on this.

I usually assume you is drunk.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 hour ago, moxy said:

The issue is that you are so far right of center, that anything that is actually "center" appears left to far-left to you. You're not alone in this, and to be fair there are lefties out there who are so left of center that anything to the right appears right to far-right to them. You have a lens you see the world through, and you don't have the ability or desire to see it through any other lens, or even without a lens.

 

    That's been a common theme with several posters here over the years I've noticed. We've had a lot of posters all over the spectrum. Most of the liberal lefties didn't mind referring to themselves and/or being described as such. We've had a lot of people far right of center who don't mind saying they are too,  but for some reason several of the folks way over on the right seem to be overly fond of describing themselves as moderates or centrists. Not sure what the disconnect is really. 

 

   TO me, if 95% of a persons posts are criticizing the left and supporting the right, they are not a moderate. If they claim to be a moderate, then what they really are is a conservative with an identity issue. 

  

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

1 minute ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    That's been a common theme with several posters here over the years I've noticed. We've had a lot of posters all over the spectrum. Most of the liberal lefties didn't mind referring to themselves and/or being described as such. We've had a lot of people far right of center who don't mind saying they are too,  but for some reason several of the folks way over on the right seem to be overly fond of describing themselves as moderates or centrists. Not sure what the disconnect is really. 

 

   TO me, if 95% of a persons posts are criticizing the left and supporting the right, they are not a moderate. If they claim to be a moderate, then what they really are is a conservative with an identity issue. 

  

I know right. Its lonely here in the center. You are a little left of center but still on the road. 

 

I remember when I criticized Trump for the ignorant statement about injections of disinfects and was roasted by the supposed free thinkers in the MDR.

And omg when I suggested we follow science in about corona the big word brigade de whited me.

 

Yup its lonely in the center

[Dashinka 24,505]

7 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    That's been a common theme with several posters here over the years I've noticed. We've had a lot of posters all over the spectrum. Most of the liberal lefties didn't mind referring to themselves and/or being described as such. We've had a lot of people far right of center who don't mind saying they are too,  but for some reason several of the folks way over on the right seem to be overly fond of describing themselves as moderates or centrists. Not sure what the disconnect is really. 

 

   TO me, if 95% of a persons posts are criticizing the left and supporting the right, they are not a moderate. If they claim to be a moderate, then what they really are is a conservative with an identity issue. 

  

So Libertarians do not criticize the biases of the media?

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

1 minute ago, Dashinka said:

So Libertarians do not criticize the biases of the media?

I've noticed Glenn Greenwald has spent 95% of his time criticizing the left and media, therefore he's a right winger. 

 

That was a great sides buster. Makes no room at all for people who might be more politically aligned, instead would make them complete opposites based on degrees one wants to criticize the actions/behaviors of those they ideologically agree with.

 

10 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I know right. Its lonely here in the center. You are a little left of center but still on the road. 

 

I remember when I criticized Trump for the ignorant statement about injections of disinfects and was roasted by the supposed free thinkers in the MDR.

And omg when I suggested we follow science in about corona the big word brigade de whited me.

 

Yup its lonely in the center

More to the above point, criticizing someone doesn't make you the opposite of them. Additionally, Trump isn't much of a conservative, he's among the most liberal Republicans that's run for President in my lifetime, which is part of what adds to the diverse populist appeal. Logically, we use their actual viewpoints. Often times those aren't even revealed in discussions. 

 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

27 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

So Libertarians do not criticize the biases of the media?

 

  I didn't mention anything about criticism of the media. Were you just asking a random question or do you wan't to elaborate? 

[Dashinka 24,505]

3 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

I've noticed Glenn Greenwald has spent 95% of his time criticizing the left and media, therefore he's a right winger. 

 

That was a great sides buster. Makes no room at all for people who might be more politically aligned, instead would make them complete opposites based on degrees one wants to criticize the actions/behaviors of those they ideologically agree with.

 

More to the above point, criticizing someone doesn't make you the opposite of them. Additionally, Trump isn't much of a conservative, he's among the most liberal Republicans that's run for President in my lifetime, which is part of what adds to the diverse populist appeal. Logically, we use their actual viewpoints. Often times those aren't even revealed in discussions. 

 

I completely agree, Trump was way more centrist than W., Obama, H.W., and Reagan.  Clinton was fairly centrist when he was President, his public persona has changed since, not sure if that was more to appease the Party while Hillary was running or if it was real.  The jury is still out for Biden, but in my opinion he is a Party first guy, and if the Dems get the Senate, and Nancy and Chuck pass a huge socialist/Marxist bill such as the GND, or something else, I don't see him wielding his veto pen.

[abum 324]

anyone keeping tabs on the number of failed court cases? So much winning (i mean if the aim is to get the highest number of failed court cases) !

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-trump-pennsylvania-election-results/2020/12/08/4d39e16c-397d-11eb-98c4-25dc9f4987e8_story.html?

 

 

Quote

Supreme Court denies Trump allies’ bid to overturn Pennsylvania election results

(Ricky Carioti/The Washington Post)

By

Robert Barnes

Dec. 8, 2020 at 4:52 p.m. EST

 

The Supreme Court on Tuesday denied a last-minute attempt by President Trump’s allies to overturn the election results in Pennsylvania.

The court’s brief order provided no reasoning, nor did it note any dissenting votes. It was the first request to delay or overturn the results of the presidential election to reach the court.

 

The lawsuit was part of a blizzard of litigation and personal interventions Trump and his lawyers have waged to overturn victories by Democrat Joe Biden in a handful of key states.

Trump called the speaker of the Pennsylvania House of Representatives twice during the past week to make an extraordinary request for help reversing his loss in the state. But Speaker Bryan Cutler told the president he had no authority to step in, or to order the legislature into special session, a Cutler spokesman told The Washington Post.

 

[designguy 1,179]

14 minutes ago, abum said:

anyone keeping tabs on the number of failed court cases? So much winning (i mean if the aim is to get the highest number of failed court cases) !

Looks like the final nail in the coffin. Its clear that the SCOTUS is not going to entertain these shenanigans

Edited December 8, 2020 by designguy

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

2 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

I completely agree, Trump was way more centrist than W., Obama, H.W., and Reagan.  Clinton was fairly centrist when he was President, his public persona has changed since, not sure if that was more to appease the Party while Hillary was running or if it was real.  The jury is still out for Biden, but in my opinion he is a Party first guy, and if the Dems get the Senate, and Nancy and Chuck pass a huge socialist/Marxist bill such as the GND, or something else, I don't see him wielding his veto pen.

I agree that Bill was a centrist.. somewhat fiscally conservative (probably the last President who was), somewhat socially liberal. Joe and Hillary are both to the right of Trump. The difference is, as visible leaders of a party, who they're appealing to in 2016 and 2020, Democrats have shown they have no qualms courting (and kindling) a growing extreme far left (while trying to make themselves seem sane which is self-defeating, but at least they can help tear the country apart using the extreme ), and it's because they believe they can market themselves simultaneously as far left and moderate people. In reality they're somewhere between neoliberal and neoconservative.

 

As an independent with primarily liberal views, knowing Trump isn't a conservative helps, and the biggest draw to him is not only the populist issues he appeals to (which actually appeal to both the right and left), but the corrupt people that have been so visibly upset by his Presidency and the lunatic stuff they've done since which only strengthened it. I lament the potential consequences the new SCOTUS justices might have on issues like abortion or healthcare, and I really thought Gorsuch and Kavanaugh were poor choices (no idea yet on Barrett) given as neoconservatives they're far more likely to support a power hungry executive on needless wars over Congress and side with the parties on trying to stifle third party and write-in candidate involvement in the elections process (from being on the debate stage, to funding, to ballot access, etc). Naturally, the people that can't be relied on to give any sort of fair assessment of Trump would call his Presidency a failure because of their binary criteria. I've criticized many appointments by Trump, fortunately most of them are gone, but it's all about accurately gauging the environment -- look at what happened to the people in his campaign that were going to be in his initial cabinet, those very corrupt institutions went after him. That combined with neocons up and down the Senate meant they would never confirm anyone but idiots like Pompeo, Mattis, etc. Trump immediately set out to fulfill promises and was repeatedly set back by his own party. The people I've described that wouldn't give any fair assessment would make that his fault, or Republicans, or who knows what (these are actually party-contrived arguments to draw people into the "fan vs. enemy" party politics).. I've seen arguments that Trump not ramming stuff through Congress meant his Presidency was a failure, but rationally, it was a testament to the worthless institutions making promises along with Trump and setting out not to keep them because of their corruption. Trump clearly used every means possible to do what he campaigned on. Wall is being built, illegal immigration fallen, no major wars, jobs being brought back, and actually feeling good again about being American with a President that overtly appeals to people who's voices have been ignored for long enough, and it resonated significantly with the working class around all demographics, investment into the US skyrocketed, most importantly, into the local workforce. The kind of corrupt resistance he's had to face is something that would take far more than one Presidency to drastically change, and I don't know of any successors. The Republicans (particularly those not recently elected for the first time) marketing themselves as populists since 2016/7/8 I know aren't populists, they're sleazy neocons hoping they get power back so they can benefit themselves and this increasingly dangerous establishment (in the parties, media, bureaus, corporations, etc). In absence of Trump, right now Tulsi (even though there's some connections I'm skeptical of) is likely my #2, depending on who else might run. I'd take a good look at Devin Nunes. At least with Tulsi in a leadership position its possible to get a reasonable universal healthcare run on the local level than by a useless, untrustworthy, and bloated federal government (executive branch).

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

55 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

I've noticed Glenn Greenwald has spent 95% of his time criticizing the left and media, therefore he's a right winger. 

 

That was a great sides buster. Makes no room at all for people who might be more politically aligned, instead would make them complete opposites based on degrees one wants to criticize the actions/behaviors of those they ideologically agree with.

 

More to the above point, criticizing someone doesn't make you the opposite of them. Additionally, Trump isn't much of a conservative, he's among the most liberal Republicans that's run for President in my lifetime, which is part of what adds to the diverse populist appeal. Logically, we use their actual viewpoints. Often times those aren't even revealed in discussions. 

 

Agree. Trump was the least conservative of any republican president of my time. Certainly didn't start wars like Bush and Obama. Yet people drank the he is hitler kool aid. Blacks and minorities faired better than under any other administration.  He fought for decriminalization of homosexuality across the globe, but you was painted as a homophobe

[laylalex 7,284]

1 hour ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I usually assume you is drunk.

I am drinking Tension Tamer tea at the moment, thank you.

42 minutes ago, abum said:

anyone keeping tabs on the number of failed court cases? So much winning (i mean if the aim is to get the highest number of failed court cases) !

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-trump-pennsylvania-election-results/2020/12/08/4d39e16c-397d-11eb-98c4-25dc9f4987e8_story.html?

 

 

 

Wow, that was the only one I thought had any real issue going on. I bet the Texas one will meet a similar end.