Biden wins presidency, Trump denied second term in White House, Fox News projects

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

42 minutes ago, designguy said:

This was already looked into and turns out its a nothing burger

 

https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2020/12/fact-check-video-from-ga-does-not-show-suitcases-filled-with-ballots-pulled-from-under-a-table-after-poll-workers-dismissed.html

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/georgia-recertifies-election-results-fulton-county-video

k

 

34 minutes ago, moxy said:

Shock or not, the president is screaming fraud but his legal team isn't actually pursuing fraud. So if where they are is "not pursuing fraud" and where they want to be is "prove fraud" then maybe he needs a different legal team. Or maybe there's actually no evidence of fraud, and the president is lying to his base.

 

The President was pretty straight forward about his desire to get in a SCOTUS judge because he saw in the primaries and through other means efforts to screw with the election. He's also tried to go straight to SCOTUS and got mad because he has to go through the states first. To conclude what you are concluding, you're saying he's trolling not only his supporters but the high court as well that he's already arguing before. Also while the term "fraud" is one of the things argued, it's also a catch all to describe efforts to undermine the election. The State Farm video helps contextualize a litany of chain of custody issues pointing to people behaving in ways where people they clearly oppose were not allowed to monitor the election as required by law. A fair election isn't a preference, it's a requirement.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[designguy 1,179]

18 minutes ago, Cyberfx1024 said:

There are actually different campaigns going on with different amounts going to repay the campaign debts. Yes, I researched this because a guy on FB was claiming 100% went to the debts. So I researched it and found two sites with different percentages while he found 1 or 2 more with different percentages 

In my opinion if the emails are asking supports to help fund "the Election Defense Fund" even a dollar going to his campaign debt would be pretty shady. 

 

I think the campaign will be sending these emails/fundraising far beyond Jan 20 because of how lucrative it is for them 

[designguy 1,179]

22 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

The State Farm video helps contextualize a litany of chain of custody issues pointing to people behaving in ways where people they clearly oppose were not allowed to monitor the election as required by law.

But this is not the case. The Republican SecState from GA has specifically refuted this claim

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

2 minutes ago, designguy said:

But this is not the case. The Republican SecState from GA has specifically refuted this claim

His party doesn't matter to the claims being made. Show where he refuted it. 

[Dashinka 24,505]

2 minutes ago, designguy said:

But this is not the case. The Republican SecState from GA has specifically refuted this claim

Let’s see, there is a video where a couple of election officers are caught counting ballots with no oversight, and a Secretary of State regardless of Party saying there was nothing wrong.  Which one instills confidence in our election process?

[designguy 1,179]

9 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

His party doesn't matter to the claims being made. Show where he refuted it. 

From the fox news article:

 

A senior source in Raffensperger's office told Fox News that the video has been investigated and claims that it showed ballot fraud deemed unfounded, adding that Fulton County election officials had a designated observer at the location the entire time -- a practice that has been in place since June.

 

Raffensperger's office also debunked allegations that the ballots were stuffed in a pair of "suitcases" that one election official pulled out from beneath a table in the video, saying footage shows the ballots in the cases that they were supposed to be kept in. 

7 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Let’s see, there is a video where a couple of election officers are caught counting ballots with no oversight,

Who says there was no oversight? The people running the election and those actually in the room disagree with your opinion 

Edited December 5, 2020 by designguy

[Dashinka 24,505]

1 minute ago, designguy said:

From the fox news article:

 

A senior source in Raffensperger's office told Fox News that the video has been investigated and claims that it showed ballot fraud deemed unfounded, adding that Fulton County election officials had a designated observer at the location the entire time -- a practice that has been in place since June.

 

Raffensperger's office also debunked allegations that the ballots were stuffed in a pair of "suitcases" that one election official pulled out from beneath a table in the video, saying footage shows the ballots in the cases that they were supposed to be kept in. 

Who says there was no oversight? 

I think the video speaks for itself.  The whole point of election counting is to do it in the open with representatives of the major Parties present.  Doing it after sending people home just adds to the feeling that we cannot trust elections officials whether it is warranted or not.

[designguy 1,179]

1 minute ago, Dashinka said:

I think the video speaks for itself.  The whole point of election counting is to do it in the open with representatives of the major Parties present.  Doing it after sending people home just adds to the feeling that we cannot trust elections officials whether it is warranted or not.

A) The video caused there to be questions raised about what happened. Those questions have been answered. If you choose not to believe those answers then there is nothing more to do.

B) No poll watchers/observers were sent home. They left on their own free will. If you have a problem with that then the issue is with the them.

C) If you think that the poll watchers should have been REQUIRED to be there then advocate for the Reps to change the law because its not currently the case

Section § 21-2-408 of the Code Of Georgia, which addresses poll watchers, explains that political bodies and parties are "entitled" to have official poll watchers. The secretary of state's chief counsel told Lead Stories it was not a requirement that observers be present for counting to continue -- only that it is their right to be there is they choose.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

18 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Let’s see, there is a video where a couple of election officers are caught counting ballots with no oversight, and a Secretary of State regardless of Party saying there was nothing wrong.  Which one instills confidence in our election process?

Thankfully we don't need the video in isolation to get the context of what occurred, we have witnesses in the media, and affidavits by people there, telling us what was said and done, which this video proves. They had a lady come in at 10:30'ish, said they were stopping counting until around 8 in the morning. They had everyone clear out, but a few counters and another guy went right to the machines and another guy, they clearly wanted to give the look like they were shutting things down. They then look around to make sure the coast is clear, then the lady having everyone clear out pulls out ballots, gives them to the counters, and they process thousands of ballots on 2 or 3 machines until a few hours later. When the Republicans were told to leave they went to the central tabulation center where media people an hour or so after told them they see people in there counting. So they came back and quickly the people counting quickly put everything away and left. 

 

Beyond the fact that this looks insanely bad, the fact that no observers were present and that they waited until people left to count again means they wanted to do what they did without oversight. The intent is unambiguous here, the affidavits were clearly correct.. I don't need them to contextualize for me though, I can judge for myself. 

 

11 minutes ago, designguy said:

From the fox news article:

 

A senior source in Raffensperger's office told Fox News that the video has been investigated and claims that it showed ballot fraud deemed unfounded, adding that Fulton County election officials had a designated observer at the location the entire time -- a practice that has been in place since June.

 

Raffensperger's office also debunked allegations that the ballots were stuffed in a pair of "suitcases" that one election official pulled out from beneath a table in the video, saying footage shows the ballots in the cases that they were supposed to be kept in. 

Who says there was no oversight? The people running the election and those actually in the room disagree with your opinion 

There's no context here whatsoever.. just saying something is debunked and telling me the identity of someone doesn't mean anything. Those who were in the room, not just Republicans, and not just observers, but employees working there, media people there, and so on, gave an opinion counter to what Raffensperger and his people said. The video itself, however (which is far more meaningful than opinions) without the affidavits lends to suspicious behavior. The affidavits of those there simply demonstrate what we saw. There is nothing believable from what is coming out of the "Republican" secretary's office.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[designguy 1,179]

2 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

Thankfully we don't need the video in isolation to get the context of what occurred, we have witnesses in the media, and affidavits by people there, telling us what was said and done, which this video proves. They had a lady come in at 10:30'ish, said they were stopping counting until around 8 in the morning. They had everyone clear out, but a few counters and another guy went right to the machines and another guy, they clearly wanted to give the look like they were shutting things down. They then look around to make sure the coast is clear, then the lady having everyone clear out pulls out ballots, gives them to the counters, and they process thousands of ballots on 2 or 3 machines until a few hours later. When the Republicans were told to leave they went to the central tabulation center where media people an hour or so after told them they see people in there counting. So they came back and quickly the people counting quickly put everything away and left. 

 

Beyond the fact that this looks insanely bad, the fact that no observers were present and that they waited until people left to count again means they wanted to do what they did without oversight. The intent is unambiguous here, the affidavits were clearly correct.. I don't need them to contextualize for me though, I can judge for myself. 

 

There's no context here whatsoever.. just saying something is debunked and telling me the identity of someone doesn't mean anything. Those who were in the room, not just Republicans, and not just observers, but employees working there, media people there, and so on, gave an opinion counter to what the video showed. The video itself without the affidavits lends to suspicious behavior. The affidavits of those there simply demonstrate what we saw. 

Where is the affidavit from a poll watcher saying they were told to leave?

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

Just now, designguy said:

Where is the affidavit from a poll watcher saying they were told to leave?

With the state. Witnesses who wrote affidavits (who weren't just observers) that were there at State Farm testified the other day. It's advised to watch the hearing. 

[Dashinka 24,505]

8 minutes ago, designguy said:

A) The video caused there to be questions raised about what happened. Those questions have been answered. If you choose not to believe those answers then there is nothing more to do.

B) No poll watchers/observers were sent home. They left on their own free will. If you have a problem with that then the issue is with the them.

C) If you think that the poll watchers should have been REQUIRED to be there then advocate for the Reps to change the law because its not currently the case

Section § 21-2-408 of the Code Of Georgia, which addresses poll watchers, explains that political bodies and parties are "entitled" to have official poll watchers. The secretary of state's chief counsel told Lead Stories it was not a requirement that observers be present for counting to continue -- only that it is their right to be there is they choose.

It goes back to what I said earlier, an elected official responsible overall for elections makes a pretty weak case about this being no big deal.  Not sure I believe them after watching the video which is why I feel we need to keep these counting processes under continuous counting surveillance.

[designguy 1,179]

4 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

With the state. Witnesses who wrote affidavits (who weren't just observers) that were there at State Farm testified the other day. It's advised to watch the hearing. 

The hearing with the adult film actress lookalike woman who is on probation for a "computer crime"?

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

15 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

It goes back to what I said earlier, an elected official responsible overall for elections makes a pretty weak case about this being no big deal.  Not sure I believe them after watching the video which is why I feel we need to keep these counting processes under continuous counting surveillance.

Not only the video feed but there's also a video with a stellar composite view of things which helps put into perspective just how much the observers couldn't actually observe even when they were there.

 

10 minutes ago, designguy said:

The hearing with the adult film actress lookalike woman who is on probation for a "computer crime"?

Snowden committed computer crimes, right? Assange too, supposedly. The stuff they said/released was shown untrue because of this? 😂 Who actually falls for these arguments?

 

Nah, she (Melissa Carone) was in Michigan, we're discussing Georgia.. but I absolutely understand the desire to attack people here and not their claims. It pairs quite well with the identity-derived arguments already presented. (I found one argument Carone made credible, even corroborated from what happened in Georgia), the rest were difficult to discern and I didn't understand the frustration she had given Republicans who were asking her to substantiate the conclusions she was drawing. A good witness simply describes objective things they observed. Other, less useful ones, describe conclusions, and she did a lot of the latter.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[Dashinka 24,505]

1 minute ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

Not only the video feed but there's also a video with a stellar composite view of things which helps put into perspective just how much the observers couldn't actually observe even when they were there.

 

Snowden committed computer crimes, right? Assange too, supposedly. The stuff they said/released was shown untrue because of this? 😂 Who actually falls for these arguments?

 

Nah, she (Melissa Carone) was in Michigan, we're discussing Georgia.. but I absolutely understand the desire to attack people here and not their claims. It pairs quite well with the identity-derived arguments already presented. (I found one argument Carone made credible, even corroborated from what happened in Georgia), the rest were difficult to discern and I didn't understand the frustration she had given Republicans who were asking her to substantiate the conclusions she was drawing. A good witness simply describes objective things they observed. Other, less useful ones, describe conclusions, and she did a lot of that.

The issue these lawmakers have is they don’t want people to think elections have issues, so they want to dismiss anyone challenging as hacks, or kooks.  In the meantime we have states completely disregarding the recommendations of the study done by President Carter and Secretary Baker about how to conduct elections.  I do not have a lot of respect for Carter as a President, but he does have credibility regarding elections.