Reporting $0.00 Income on I-864

[David Borgeson 5]

On 5/19/2021 at 10:03 AM, Nelly_M said:

I was wondering the same whether to include any assets such as checking account when there is no income and joint sponsor is been used. Any thoughts on this from someone that has been approved? Thanks. 

 

We're getting close to our Embassy interview, so I can't say we're approved yet, or if including some personal assets helped or not, given we are using a joint sponsor who puts us over the threshold. My guess is in line with neca's opinion above, but we'll wait and see.

 

From neca:

Quote

I also have marginal assets back in the states so I chose not to include it; while you indicated that yours is barely enough, I think that it's kind of redundant to include it since you're using a joint sponsor. I don't think it will hurt your case to include it, but if you are looking for areas to save yourself some trouble and time then I would probably look to cut there first.

 

We hope to have good news either way in the next six weeks. Fingers crossed!

[Villanelle 4,122]

On 5/18/2021 at 9:03 PM, Nelly_M said:

I was wondering the same whether to include any assets such as checking account when there is no income and joint sponsor is been used. Any thoughts on this from someone that has been approved? Thanks. 

Listing assets are optional. Listing income is mandatory. 

 

Your 864 as the primary sponsor will be reviewed first. You will either qualify based on what is filled out on it or not. If not, they move on to evaluate your joint sponsors 864 and thats reviewed  independently from yours, so your joint sponsors 864 needs to qualify on its own. 

 

They also do consider the totality of circumstances. So when they look at all your stuff combined they may consider any minimal assets as a positive factor towards approving you. If you are borderline in meeting the qualifications including assets (even if they arent enough on their own) can help tip the decision to an approval. However if you or your joint sponsor far exceeds the guidelines including minimal assets is not going to make an impact.

[Nelly_M 7]

1 hour ago, David Borgeson said:

 

We're getting close to our Embassy interview, so I can't say we're approved yet, or if including some personal assets helped or not, given we are using a joint sponsor who puts us over the threshold. My guess is in line with neca's opinion above, but we'll wait and see.

 

From neca:

 

We hope to have good news either way in the next six weeks. Fingers crossed!

Good luck with your interview! Please let us know how it went. 

[Nelly_M 7]

26 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

Listing assets are optional. Listing income is mandatory. 

 

Your 864 as the primary sponsor will be reviewed first. You will either qualify based on what is filled out on it or not. If not, they move on to evaluate your joint sponsors 864 and thats reviewed  independently from yours, so your joint sponsors 864 needs to qualify on its own. 

 

They also do consider the totality of circumstances. So when they look at all your stuff combined they may consider any minimal assets as a positive factor towards approving you. If you are borderline in meeting the qualifications including assets (even if they arent enough on their own) can help tip the decision to an approval. However if you or your joint sponsor far exceeds the guidelines including minimal assets is not going to make an impact.

Thanks for your response. Like I said I have no income to report as I lived overseas for the last couple of years and wasn’t employed during that time. The money on the account is not sufficient to qualify as a sponsor, but I was wondering if It’s going to make any difference to include it anyways. I have a joint sponsor with more than enough income. If I include the money I have on checking account, do I need to provide any proof given that the amount is not sufficient to qualify as sponsor? 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Nelly_M

[Villanelle 4,122]

11 hours ago, Nelly_M said:

but I was wondering if It’s going to make any difference to include it anyways.

I tried to explain the only difference it can make is when they look at the totality of it all combined in whether there is sufficient support available for the immigrant to overcome public charge concerns. 

 

11 hours ago, Nelly_M said:

 

I have a joint sponsor with more than enough income. If I include the money I have on checking account, do I need to provide any proof given that the amount is not sufficient to qualify as sponsor? 

How much money is in the checking account? A few hundred dollars isn't going to make any difference. 30k is enough to qualify for a spouse. There's a huge range between 100 and 30k and with out knowing how much it's impossible to say but in order for them to consider it (even if it's just in totality) you would have to submit proof. Since you have a solid joint sponsor I wouldn't worry about it too much. If they want to see proof of the balance they will let you know but most likely they aren't going to be interested as you have a solid joint sponsor already.

[Nelly_M 7]

47 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

I tried to explain the only difference it can make is when they look at the totality of it all combined in whether there is sufficient support available for the immigrant to overcome public charge concerns. 

 

How much money is in the checking account? A few hundred dollars isn't going to make any difference. 30k is enough to qualify for a spouse. There's a huge range between 100 and 30k and with out knowing how much it's impossible to say but in order for them to consider it (even if it's just in totality) you would have to submit proof. Since you have a solid joint sponsor I wouldn't worry about it too much. If they want to see proof of the balance they will let you know but most likely they aren't going to be interested as you have a solid joint sponsor already.

Around 12K. Like I said, I know that’s not enough to qualify as a sponsor. I also wanted to confirm that it’s ok if a joint sponsor lives in a different state than I do? 

[Villanelle 4,122]

There's a typo in my post I just noticed. Should say 3x to sponsor spouse not 30k. Not sure why I wrote that so wrong! Just wanted to clarify for others reading.

 

A joint sponsor can be anyone willing as long as they are a citizen/national or LPR and have US income/assets and domicile in the US or territories. So it's fine if they live in another state.

 

If your joint sponsor is married it's recommended to have their spouse fill out the 864a as their household member even if they are using their income only as sometimes Officers want to see the spouse is aware of the commitment being undertaken. So it's recommended to send the 864a rather than wait to see if they RFE for it causing additional delay.

[Nelly_M 7]

On 5/24/2021 at 2:06 AM, Villanelle said:

There's a typo in my post I just noticed. Should say 3x to sponsor spouse not 30k. Not sure why I wrote that so wrong! Just wanted to clarify for others reading.

 

A joint sponsor can be anyone willing as long as they are a citizen/national or LPR and have US income/assets and domicile in the US or territories. So it's fine if they live in another state.

 

If your joint sponsor is married it's recommended to have their spouse fill out the 864a as their household member even if they are using their income only as sometimes Officers want to see the spouse is aware of the commitment being undertaken. So it's recommended to send the 864a rather than wait to see if they RFE for it causing additional delay.

Thank you so much for your clarification. Should I just put N/A in the assets part of the form since the amount that I have is not sufficient? My joint sponsor is single, so no need for I-864A. 
 

Perhaps this is not the right thread to ask the following questions so I apologize in advance, but it’s hard to find a thread related to all AOS issues/questions. 

 

As I am getting done with preparing AOS, I have read somewhere that a joint sponsor has to provide a letter explaining the relationship with petitioner/immigrant. As I haven’t seen this part in USCIS instructions, can you please confirm that this is needed?

 

Also, I have a question about tax return file that is close to 10MB. If I compress below 2MB the quality of the file is bad. I was wondering if we need to upload the whole tax return or just certain documents from it: 1040/1099 and certain schedules and eliminate the other forms as that would make a huge difference in file size. Tax return that I have contains certainspreadsheets, comparing tax returns from prior years etc. Not sure if all this is needed...

 

 

[Villanelle 4,122]

Well, I am not a mod. The mods will move or merge things as they see fit. Its usually best to keep all your questions in one thread and only make a new thread if its for a new topic. I know some people worry their question will be buried but most of the frequent users browse the forums using the unread content feature, so your post will show up and it people will comment if they feel they have something to add. Anyway, the relationship of the joint sponsor to you is not required.

 

Just as people send the 864a 'just incase-to avoid delays' some people send a letter of explanation about the relationship between themselves and the joint sponsor to proactively address any questions the Officer might have about it. They may ask, they may not. If it is asked its most likely going to be in a casual who filled this out because the name is different then your family name or they live in a different (and far) state from you. Ive never heard of them demanding a letter of explanation from the person that filled it out confirming they did fill it out but I suppose they could ask for such if they suspect its been filled out fraudulently by you with out the persons knowledge. But that kind of fraud is rare as you need waaay too many documents to fill out the 864 than most fraudsters have access to. 

 

Moving on, it sounds like your tax return file contains lots of things that are not your actual tax return. I know when you file using turbo tax or hr block they give you a pdf that contains multiple pages that are not part of your actual tax return. Like a cover sheet, a receipt for your fees, etc. Your tax return is the 1040 form itself and then any schedules or worksheets. Basically if its an IRS form its part of your tax return. When you send the tax return you need to include all the schedules and worksheets along with the 1040 and then all the supporting w2s 1099s etc. Its much easier to obtain your transcripts as they have all the information needed. 

 

You need to send either the complete tax return +supporting documentation (so they can recreate the return and come out with the same totals as you did) or the transcripts (which is a printout of everything you submitted to IRS for that tax filing). So look through your 10mb file and see how much you can shrink it or obtain the transcripts. If its still over the 2mb limit you can search for posts on that topic as Im sure its come up before, Im just not sure how people handled it. 

[Troy B 223]

An IRS Tax Return Transcript should be smaller than the tax return & supporting documentation.

[Nelly_M 7]

On 5/28/2021 at 9:47 AM, Villanelle said:

Well, I am not a mod. The mods will move or merge things as they see fit. Its usually best to keep all your questions in one thread and only make a new thread if its for a new topic. I know some people worry their question will be buried but most of the frequent users browse the forums using the unread content feature, so your post will show up and it people will comment if they feel they have something to add. Anyway, the relationship of the joint sponsor to you is not required.

 

Just as people send the 864a 'just incase-to avoid delays' some people send a letter of explanation about the relationship between themselves and the joint sponsor to proactively address any questions the Officer might have about it. They may ask, they may not. If it is asked its most likely going to be in a casual who filled this out because the name is different then your family name or they live in a different (and far) state from you. Ive never heard of them demanding a letter of explanation from the person that filled it out confirming they did fill it out but I suppose they could ask for such if they suspect its been filled out fraudulently by you with out the persons knowledge. But that kind of fraud is rare as you need waaay too many documents to fill out the 864 than most fraudsters have access to. 

 

Moving on, it sounds like your tax return file contains lots of things that are not your actual tax return. I know when you file using turbo tax or hr block they give you a pdf that contains multiple pages that are not part of your actual tax return. Like a cover sheet, a receipt for your fees, etc. Your tax return is the 1040 form itself and then any schedules or worksheets. Basically if its an IRS form its part of your tax return. When you send the tax return you need to include all the schedules and worksheets along with the 1040 and then all the supporting w2s 1099s etc. Its much easier to obtain your transcripts as they have all the information needed. 

 

You need to send either the complete tax return +supporting documentation (so they can recreate the return and come out with the same totals as you did) or the transcripts (which is a printout of everything you submitted to IRS for that tax filing). So look through your 10mb file and see how much you can shrink it or obtain the transcripts. If its still over the 2mb limit you can search for posts on that topic as Im sure its come up before, Im just not sure how people handled it. 

Again, thank you for your help with this. For some reason, I am not getting notifications about replies on this thread. I just checked and saw your answer. 

I will have a joint sponsor send me a letter just in case they have any questions. The reason I am using a joint sponsor residing in a different state is due to the fact that I cannot use my household income as I haven’t been living with them for the last six months as required per USCIS. I am not sure if I should provide explanation about that when submitting documents. 

Regarding tax return file, the joint sponsor didn’t receive electronic file but the scanned version of hard copy which isthe reason for such a huge file. Even though she filed taxes in April, her transcript is not available online.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Nelly_M
Moving the screenshot

[David Borgeson 5]

Nelly_M,

 

I'm just jumping in here after some time away from the thread, so apologies in advance if this isn't accurate, but your screenshot seems to be describing how to add a Household Member, not a Joint Sponsor. Joint Sponsors fill out their own I-864, the full thing, not an I-864a. Household Members fill out an I-864a. 

 

In my case, my brother-in-law is serving as co-sponsor for my wife's IR1 application, since I have $0.00 in income on my own I-864, and assets just at the threshold. His co-sponsorship by itself puts us over the financial threshold. His wife, my sister, filled out an I-864a anyway, as evidence that she is aware of her husband's co-sponsorship obligations. Our documents were accepted by NVC and we are currently awaiting our Embassy interview.

 

Household Members need to provide proof of their relationship to the Sponsor or Joint Sponsor they are attached to. As far as I am aware there is no constraint, physical or relational, on the Joint Sponsor as far as their relationship to the Primary Sponsor.

 

Maybe someone else can back this up or debunk it.

[Nelly_M 7]

On 6/2/2021 at 5:54 AM, David Borgeson said:

Nelly_M,

 

I'm just jumping in here after some time away from the thread, so apologies in advance if this isn't accurate, but your screenshot seems to be describing how to add a Household Member, not a Joint Sponsor. Joint Sponsors fill out their own I-864, the full thing, not an I-864a. Household Members fill out an I-864a. 

 

In my case, my brother-in-law is serving as co-sponsor for my wife's IR1 application, since I have $0.00 in income on my own I-864, and assets just at the threshold. His co-sponsorship by itself puts us over the financial threshold. His wife, my sister, filled out an I-864a anyway, as evidence that she is aware of her husband's co-sponsorship obligations. Our documents were accepted by NVC and we are currently awaiting our Embassy interview.

 

Household Members need to provide proof of their relationship to the Sponsor or Joint Sponsor they are attached to. As far as I am aware there is no constraint, physical or relational, on the Joint Sponsor as far as their relationship to the Primary Sponsor.

 

Maybe someone else can back this up or debunk it.

Hi David,

Thank you for your response. The screenshot I included is just showing that in order to count your household income, you must live with your household members for the last six months per USCIS, which is not the case with me. I was just showing it as a reason why I am not using their income and going with joint sponsor instead. This was just a reference to this rule.

 

What I was really trying to get information on this thread is if I should include any assets on my application considering that my income is $0 and the amount on my bank account does not meet the asset requirements for sponsorship, not sure if it would make any difference to include it or to skip the asset part completely.
In your case, did you list any assets on your I-864, even though they were marginal like you said? 

For reference, the joint sponsor’s income alone is sufficient to meet the sponsorship requirements. 

[Troy B 223]

4 hours ago, Nelly_M said:

Hi David,

Thank you for your response. The screenshot I included is just showing that in order to count your household income, you must live with your household members for the last six months per USCIS, which is not the case with me. I was just showing it as a reason why I am not using their income and going with joint sponsor instead. This was just a reference to this rule.

 

What I was really trying to get information on this thread is if I should include any assets on my application considering that my income is $0 and the amount on my bank account does not meet the asset requirements for sponsorship, not sure if it would make any difference to include it or to skip the asset part completely.
In your case, did you list any assets on your I-864, even though they were marginal like you said? 

For reference, the joint sponsor’s income alone is sufficient to meet the sponsorship requirements. 

You assets would have to be 3x the regular limit to qualify on your assets.   If the joint sponsor income is enough, i wouldn't bother with the assets.

[David Borgeson 5]

18 hours ago, Nelly_M said:

Hi David,

Thank you for your response. The screenshot I included is just showing that in order to count your household income, you must live with your household members for the last six months per USCIS, which is not the case with me. I was just showing it as a reason why I am not using their income and going with joint sponsor instead. This was just a reference to this rule.

 

What I was really trying to get information on this thread is if I should include any assets on my application considering that my income is $0 and the amount on my bank account does not meet the asset requirements for sponsorship, not sure if it would make any difference to include it or to skip the asset part completely.
In your case, did you list any assets on your I-864, even though they were marginal like you said? 

For reference, the joint sponsor’s income alone is sufficient to meet the sponsorship requirements. 

Hi,

 

I guess I would fall under the opinion of others here, in that: it is up to you. It technically won't make a difference, but the people making these decisions are people and could create a more favorable impression on your case officer. But it might not. It depends on the individual officer. Worst case scenario, you put the time and effort into getting the documents together and they have no effect. Best case, the officer likes you slightly more, but they still only use your joint sponsor's assets to determine support. It's a cost-benefit analysis you have to make for yourself.

 

In my case, I did list assets, and included bank statements from the last six months as part of my i-864, and my application was successful. Others have not listed assets and been successful as well.

 

I guess if you're looking for a definite answer about whether to include personal assets that don't satisfy the support requirements or not, it simply doesn't exist in this situation.

 

I think whatever you decide you'll be fine, since your joint sponsor covers the support requirements.