I'm lost. It doesn't make sense to me.

[Mags 112]

As has been said before, its a freaking message board - and if it makes one feel self important to get the last word in an argument, or belittle someone just for fun - then that person has got some serious psychological issues, and it might behoove them to spend their message board time with a shrink instead.

I agree. Anyone who thinks "I got the last word in!" has issues. This board isn't a competition to see who can get one over the other. It is supposed to be supportive. I guess I would suggest to people that they think before they press "add reply."

I think mods who are willing to step in and say we're sick of all of this, too, is a step in the right direction, but its also incumbant on the rest of us to recognize what's going on, say that we don't like it, and do our part in changing it.

If that is 'utopia' in your opinion, so be it. To me, its simply asking for a little common decency.

I will just say this again, we mods don't see everything. It is physically impossible to read every post here on VJ. So, if you see any behaviour that is belittling, insulting, baiting and just generally poor form then PLEASE let us know.

Edited June 27, 2007 by mags

[TracyTN 237]

I will just say this again, we mods don't see everything. It is physically impossible to read every post here on VJ. So, if you see any behaviour that is belittling, insulting, baiting and just generally poor form then PLEASE let us know.

Agreed. And I hope you know I wasn't insinuating that you SHOULD see everything! Last time I checked, you all have lives!!

[Mags 112]

I will just say this again, we mods don't see everything. It is physically impossible to read every post here on VJ. So, if you see any behaviour that is belittling, insulting, baiting and just generally poor form then PLEASE let us know.

Agreed. And I hope you know I wasn't insinuating that you SHOULD see everything! Last time I checked, you all have lives!!

Hey, I know that, just felt it was the ideal opportunity to remind people that they are an intricate part of making this site a happy place to be!

[Fandango 1,439]

Yeah, that is very true and you both (all) have a point. That said, I'm not talking about people that flip out or have a bad day or get biotchy once in a while. I'm talking about people who consistently irritate and seem to have no other purpose around here sometimes. If my kid does that, I'm going to put up with it for a little while, and then I'm going to tell him to knock it the heck OFF or this, this and then THIS is going to happen.

No, Alex...we don't have to be Utopia. This isn't directed at you (or even anyone actually, as MANY people here have adopted these words....) No, we don't have to be all rainbows, lollipops and sunshine. I get that. Why, however, when we are here for information and a good time, do we have to put up with people being ignorant for no other reason than...they can. ...and furthermore, they seem to get off on the fact... pardon my crassness. It's like...well, whatcha gonna do about it, huh?? *giggle* You know?

For the most part, and it took me quite some time to reach this point, it honestly does NOT bother me anymore. Other people moreso, some not at all. I just think ..why? If you're a rude, arrogant, knowitall, gottaberightallthetime, in-your-face and I'm-gonna-tell-it-like-it-"is" (without really knowing if that's how it IS anyway! *eye roll*) then why even stick around here??? Sure, everyone has the right to be here unless/until they get banned or whatever...but ..if you can't play nice, with ME anyway...I don't want you in my game!...kind of like:

We're all quoting the things the people can do NOT to respond to those type of people, so I'll repeat one of the adages from MY mom (and no, that honestly wasn't a "stab" at you, Cheeky) "If you can't say nothing nice, don't say anything at all."

Just MY POV. M.

Does that apply to everyone here or just some?

The bottom line is this. Many are objecting to what they feel is:

-rude

-insulting

-'tell it like it is'

-passive agressive

-bullying

posts.

In return, their posts have become:

-rude

-mocking

-namecalling

-insulting

-'tell it like it is'

-passive-aggressive and aggressive aggressive

-bullying

-bandwagon mentality

posts. Yet somehow some higher ground is claimed whilst doing so. Because it's ok due to some mental justification? Eh, I dunno. I do agree, however, that the tone of this place is changed. Many old timers have become downright hostile all around since that hooha with the other board. If you disagree, then just search back.

Of course, opinion is subjective and I'm sure there are those who disagree. But that's mho.

If you don't like someone, you really can't control how they post so long as the board owner has no problem. BUT, If the poster is so intolerable, you can ignore them either manually or automatically. I have this colleague at work that I really just don't like. But I don't let her affect who I am & how I act. But becoming like what one supposedly loathes...even worse at times...well that's just the height of irony and really interesting to see. You can try to put lipstick on a pig & dress it up into something it isn't, but at the end of the day, it's still a pig.

Anyways, gotta shoot...lots to do today!

[rebeccajo 14]

Yeah, that is very true and you both (all) have a point. That said, I'm not talking about people that flip out or have a bad day or get biotchy once in a while. I'm talking about people who consistently irritate and seem to have no other purpose around here sometimes. If my kid does that, I'm going to put up with it for a little while, and then I'm going to tell him to knock it the heck OFF or this, this and then THIS is going to happen.

No, Alex...we don't have to be Utopia. This isn't directed at you (or even anyone actually, as MANY people here have adopted these words....) No, we don't have to be all rainbows, lollipops and sunshine. I get that. Why, however, when we are here for information and a good time, do we have to put up with people being ignorant for no other reason than...they can. ...and furthermore, they seem to get off on the fact... pardon my crassness. It's like...well, whatcha gonna do about it, huh?? *giggle* You know?

For the most part, and it took me quite some time to reach this point, it honestly does NOT bother me anymore. Other people moreso, some not at all. I just think ..why? If you're a rude, arrogant, knowitall, gottaberightallthetime, in-your-face and I'm-gonna-tell-it-like-it-"is" (without really knowing if that's how it IS anyway! *eye roll*) then why even stick around here??? Sure, everyone has the right to be here unless/until they get banned or whatever...but ..if you can't play nice, with ME anyway...I don't want you in my game!...kind of like:

We're all quoting the things the people can do NOT to respond to those type of people, so I'll repeat one of the adages from MY mom (and no, that honestly wasn't a "stab" at you, Cheeky) "If you can't say nothing nice, don't say anything at all."

Just MY POV. M.

Does that apply to everyone here or just some?

The bottom line is this. Many are objecting to what they feel is:

-rude

-insulting

-'tell it like it is'

-passive agressive

-bullying

posts.

In return, their posts have become:

-rude

-mocking

-namecalling

-insulting

-'tell it like it is'

-passive-aggressive and aggressive aggressive

-bullying

-bandwagon mentality

posts. Yet somehow some higher ground is claimed whilst doing so. Because it's ok due to some mental justification? Eh, I dunno. I do agree, however, that the tone of this place is changed. Many old timers have become downright hostile all around since that hooha with the other board. If you disagree, then just search back.

Of course, opinion is subjective and I'm sure there are those who disagree. But that's mho.

If you don't like someone, you really can't control how they post so long as the board owner has no problem. BUT, If the poster is so intolerable, you can ignore them either manually or automatically. I have this colleague at work that I really just don't like. But I don't let her affect who I am & how I act. But becoming like what one supposedly loathes...even worse at times...well that's just the height of irony and really interesting to see. You can try to put lipstick on a pig & dress it up into something it isn't, but at the end of the day, it's still a pig.

Anyways, gotta shoot...lots to do today!

Blah blah blah blah blah.

You don't like the heat - stay out of the kitchen.

[TracyTN 237]

Never mind. I really have no interest in taking up valuable hours in the day trying to get in the last word with a last word freak.

Edited June 27, 2007 by TracyTN

[Yodrak 7]

Bears repeating. Each VJer has the ability to ignore whose who they don't like, disagree with, or otherwise don't want to see.

Yodrak

.....

If you don't like someone, you really can't control how they post so long as the board owner has no problem. BUT, If the poster is so intolerable, you can ignore them either manually or automatically. .....

[Yodrak 7]

Moderators are like police on patrol - they see only what is going on in their immediate vicinity, not what is going on across town. If there's a mugging in progress someone has to call 911 and report it.

Also, if the speed limit is 50 but all of the traffic is going 70, all of the violators cannot be stopped and ticketed. Only those going far beyond what everyone else is doing is likely to be ticketed, even though all deserve it. Otherwise, the cries of 'why me when everyone else is doing the same' will be never ending, and justified.

Yodrak

I will just say this again, we mods don't see everything. It is physically impossible to read every post here on VJ. So, if you see any behaviour that is belittling, insulting, baiting and just generally poor form then PLEASE let us know.

[mawilson 2,133]

I requested the topic be started in another thread if needed. I also requested 3 times for the bickering to cease.

What's wrong with bickering and calling each other names?

People have emotions, you know.

[Alex+R 0]

Before VJ it had been quite awhile since I'd participated in a forum, so forgive me if I just don't understand.

But why is it so important to alter and regulate the natural way people talk to each other? Are we becoming some sort of utopian message board that will no longer tolerate passive-agressive comments? Why must a forum have social rules that differ from those of real life? Some people are just a$$holes and we certainly all act like one once in awhile. So what? Why must it be addressed? Why can't the mods step in when things get too nasty, but allow people to sometimes be unfriendly to each other? This is starting to feel like a kindergarten classroom and it's something I'm having a terrible time getting my head around.

A utopian society? Please. Its insulting to insinuate that those of us who object to a few things here are expecting lollipops and rainbows on a daily basis.

The overall mood on this board has gone downhill. I'm not the first one to say it, or the only one to have noticed it. It seems as if the 'acceptable' and 'in' thing to do is antagonize people just for the hell of it, or follow people around the board whom you may not like personally and try to belittle them where ever possible. Sure, it takes two to argue - but it would be a nice change of pace around here to see someone say 'I just really think we ought to not go there' and walk away instead of fighting until the death/making damn sure they get the 'last word'.

As has been said before, its a freaking message board - and if it makes one feel self important to get the last word in an argument, or belittle someone just for fun - then that person has got some serious psychological issues, and it might behoove them to spend their message board time with a shrink instead.

I have seen newbies here say they were 'afraid' to post because they'd be jumped on or ridiculed for doing so. I have had some PM me and thank me for a response to a question and then say, 'Everyone else in the thread was so mean to me.' Is this really what we want?

I don't think its expecting 'utopia' to have newbies feel like they can jump in and have a laugh or a question answered without being ridiculed. This has nothing to do with some noobs apparent inability to read the guides before they post 200 questions in 200 separate threads - which frustrates me, too, but even at that, I have learned that days like that mean I just have to pretend the 'reply' button doesn't work. (I'm still working on perfecting that, I might add!

I think mods who are willing to step in and say we're sick of all of this, too, is a step in the right direction, but its also incumbant on the rest of us to recognize what's going on, say that we don't like it, and do our part in changing it.

If that is 'utopia' in your opinion, so be it. To me, its simply asking for a little common decency.

I didn't mean to be insulting, and I'm sorry it was taken that way. I should have been more careful. I do especially agree with the part in bold as well. When I think of baiting and general mean-spiritedness, I think of it happening the most in OT, regional forums, etc. But when it is happening in a thread where a noob has asked an earnest immigration-related question, we should be ashamed, because that stands in the way of the site's mission as I understand it: to help people navigate the immigration process.

If someone posts "I'm getting a divorce because my husband doesn't like it when I abuse our kids. How do I keep my immigration status?" then I really don't think it's reasonable to ask VJ members not to weigh in on their opinion of this woman's personal life. But we really should be trying to be kind to people and not be so quick to judge when it comes to immigration-related questions.

[TracyTN 237]

I didn't mean to be insulting, and I'm sorry it was taken that way. I should have been more careful. I do especially agree with the part in bold as well. When I think of baiting and general mean-spiritedness, I think of it happening the most in OT, regional forums, etc. But when it is happening in a thread where a noob has asked an earnest immigration-related question, we should be ashamed, because that stands in the way of the site's mission as I understand it: to help people navigate the immigration process.

If someone posts "I'm getting a divorce because my husband doesn't like it when I abuse our kids. How do I keep my immigration status?" then I really don't think it's reasonable to ask VJ members not to weigh in on their opinion of this woman's personal life. But we really should be trying to be kind to people and not be so quick to judge when it comes to immigration-related questions.

I agree with your characterizations of both situations.

It seems that most everyone in this thread, including the mods, are happy with the nature of things at VJ now. I suppose it IS just a few of us who find the current state sad (not to mention mean spirited).

With that, I'm quite happy to say that I wish you all well, and I hope my .02 was taken as in the spirit it was meant. Probably best for those of us who disagree to move on. I'll check in on some of my UK counterparts from time to time, but beyond that, I really can't bear to watch.

Best of luck to all of you with your visa journies (where ever you may be in the process).

[john_and_marlene 162]

If I have insulted anyone, I probably meant it.

If I don't respond to you, consider it an insult--I don't think you are worth my time.

If you disagree with me, that's something you'll have to deal with.

If you want cotton candy, go to the circus.

[LaL 418]

It seems that most everyone in this thread, including the mods, are happy with the nature of things at VJ now. I suppose it IS just a few of us who find the current state sad (not to mention mean spirited).

I am sorry you feel this way Tracy - many people have offered advice, suggestions and have donated much time to the topic that I cannot imagine that this is true. If status quo were acceptable, I do not believe mods would have been created. Climates are not immediately rectified, but we are doing our best and it will take some time.

[JenT 0]

Haven't been around much on VJ lately... comforting to see that some things never change....

[Fandango 1,439]

You don't like the heat - stay out of the kitchen.

I agree totally! Too bad everyone doesn't have this mentality...there'd be no issues at all!

Edited June 27, 2007 by LisaD