I'm lost. It doesn't make sense to me.

[Alex+R 0]

Oh my god I can't follow this thread at all. What the hell? How can this be such an issue?

[Yodrak 7]

It's been my observation since becoming a moderator, which forced me to start paying attention to such things, that many exchages begin subtly. It's often not apparent what a poster intended, but someone comes along who feels that the post was aimed at them - perhaps because of past exchanges in other threads - and a retort is thrown back. Then a back-and-forth starts, and it can take several exchanges before the heat rises to the point that combustion takes place.

During the mating dance either party has the option to let it go. The conflagration takes place only if neither party is willing to remain civil and both parties turn up the heat one after the other. In such cases it's difficult if not impossible to make a determination as to who started it, they both created it, and if it's risen to the point where one has a valid complaint against the other then often the plaintiff is often as quilty as the defendent.

Yodrak

You all need to learn to differentiate between you are being baited just as much as the rest of the board is being baited.

If you ever feel that you are being baited, it doesn't mean you have to rise to the occasion. That's a personal choice, no?

Well apparantly baiting someone is a violation of TOS and demands some form of action. If the bait is is set, then I think you have the right to rise accordingly. Why let the one doing the baiting have the last word and feel they have the upper hand in such situations.

.....

.....

Whether or not any threads are started in malice is not the point...it's how they are reacted to that lies with the person doing the reacting. And we can all get along much better once we keep that in mind.

That's like saying it's ok for somebody to stand and throw rocks at a window, but the guy on the inside of the window is responsible for being unhappy about that.

[rebeccajo 14]

Yodrak....

In the mating dance there is no written record of who says what.

There is on a message board.

It might take some time and effort to do the research, but the record will reveal the firestarter.

Becca

[Tim and Bethanie 1]

Yodrak.

I saw a post last week, no wait a couple of post by a particular person that was this subtle little stab at someone else. No names were spoken, didn't need to be. This person takes on the position that they are the shining star and above everyone else, despite being a right nasty little critter. So this person does this same ol' song and dance until finally someone takes a nice big pot shot at them, and they cry "mommy"! Personally, even though that persons comments were not directed at me it was very difficult to restrain myself. So had I made a perfectly logical response to that person, would that then make me the instigator?

This isn't going to go anywhere but in circles. Maybe just telling these types of persons to F.O and going on with the day could be the new VJ attitude.

[Jenn! 918]

Yodrak....

In the mating dance there is no written record of who says what.

There is on a message board.

It might take some time and effort to do the research, but the record will reveal the firestarter.

Becca

[Tim and Bethanie 1]

I found these and thought how very much they apply to the topic at hand. A bully continues to pick the fight yet the bullied is supposed to be the stronger of the two and keep their mouthes shut? Smells like bully-sh*t to me. Tis the natural instinct of the bully to not get a reaction, but for his/her victim to shut up and take it. This makes the bully the BULLY!

Perhaps anyone who is not a bully should keep quiet and let the bullies run the entire forum, since this is after all what they are after. Once all of the bullied folks are gone the bullies can then take pot shots at one another. Fun fun!

"Bullies are always cowards at heart and may be credited with a pretty safe instinct in scenting their prey. "

~Anna Julia Cooper~

"Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life, but define yourself."

~Harvey S. Firestone~

If this is in response to what I said, then I'll say this:

No one is saying that a person feeling bullied should keep his/her mouth shut per se, but when the reaction denigrates into a name calling, bickering childish argument...which one is the bully? I'll turn this on myself for one sec. I started a thread about thread locks. It was automatically assumed to be 'antagonistic' even though I specified it wasn't. That was used as justification for animosity & so much childishness, that the thread wound up getting locked. When the thread was asking a legitimate question.

The bottom line is....you (generic you here) may not like me, I may not like you...but every time we're in a thread together does not mean that one or the other needs to look for some 'hidden insult' to get offended by and used as justification for acting in a manner unsuitable for an adult. If both parties feel bullied, then where's it end? Both sides feeling justified to throw sh!t in the other's direction, with no one taking responsibility for it? No, surely there's a much calmer and more adult way to deal with something as basic as a personality conflict on a message board.

Your quotes can probably be applicable for every person alive. Perspective is reality. I most certainly define my own life & am not pushed into silence. But I'm a biotch because of it, hahahaha. And because of such, it's ok to treat me in whichever manner one sees fit. Eh, it's no big shakes but the irony is astounding.

It stems from what you posted, sure! Directed at you? No.

My point is one can't keep jabbing and jabbing and not expect some form of a retaliation. Let us say a man beats on a dog until finally the dog bites him (bound to happen). Do we blame the dog and put him down? He wasn't acting like a labrador anymore but like a pitbull. There is only so much anyone can take until they are put in the foulest of moods, and curse them if they finally bite back.

[Yodrak 7]

Becca,

The record will reveal more than one firestarter, depending on who the researchers are.

Yodrak

Yodrak....

In the mating dance there is no written record of who says what.

There is on a message board.

It might take some time and effort to do the research, but the record will reveal the firestarter.

Becca

[Sheriff Uling 3]

Yodrak.

I saw a post last week, no wait a couple of post by a particular person that was this subtle little stab at someone else. No names were spoken, didn't need to be. This person takes on the position that they are the shining star and above everyone else, despite being a right nasty little critter. So this person does this same ol' song and dance until finally someone takes a nice big pot shot at them, and they cry "mommy"! Personally, even though that persons comments were not directed at me it was very difficult to restrain myself. So had I made a perfectly logical response to that person, would that then make me the instigator?

This isn't going to go anywhere but in circles. Maybe just telling these types of persons to F.O and going on with the day could be the new VJ attitude.

In all honestly, any comment, response, logic, reason, humor, and etc that is contrary to another person's belief or thought process at that particular time could be considered instigating. There is truly no direct answer. The only thing that we can do is attempt to adhere to the TOS and to be civil / respectful to one another. Other than that, we could spend countless hours discussing this one...

Cheers!!!

Sheriff Uling

[payxibka 10,044]

Becca,

The record will reveal more than one firestarter, depending on who the researchers are.

Yodrak

Let alone if it was simply a match that started the fire or a molotov cocktail... but hey... did you see my emoticons? That makes it OK...

[Tim and Bethanie 1]

In all honestly, any comment, response, logic, reason, humor, and etc that is contrary to another person's belief or thought process at that particular time could be considered instigating. There is truly no direct answer. The only thing that we can do is attempt to adhere to the TOS and to be civil / respectful to one another. Other than that, we could spend countless hours discussing this one...

Cheers!!!

Sheriff Uling

Agree. The problem lies in those that can't be respectful. The odd smart alec off the wall "I had a bad day" sort of post is one thing, a daily dose of Dr B*tch is another.

There is one way to fix it.

[TracyTN 237]

Becca,

The record will reveal more than one firestarter, depending on who the researchers are.

Yodrak

Let alone if it was simply a match that started the fire or a molotov cocktail... but hey... did you see my emoticons? That makes it OK...

Or makes it somehow less passive-aggressive. Personally, I'd rather the person tell me directly to f.o. instead of 'hint' towards it with emotes and such.

Edited June 26, 2007 by TracyTN

[Alex+R 0]

Wait, are we seriously trying to decide the best way to determine "who started it"? Aren't we all responsible for each of our own actions, baited or not?

[rebeccajo 14]

Yodrak

'Tis true there are two sides to each coin. Thus the symbol of the scales in my profession. Enough coins will tip them one way or the other.

Becca

Becca,

The record will reveal more than one firestarter, depending on who the researchers are.

Yodrak

Yodrak....

In the mating dance there is no written record of who says what.

There is on a message board.

It might take some time and effort to do the research, but the record will reveal the firestarter.

Becca

[Jenn! 918]

Wait, are we seriously trying to decide the best way to determine "who started it"? Aren't we all responsible for each of our own actions, baited or not?

Sure, but I don't think that we can deny that we have our fair share of people around here who make it their purpose to "wind people up" and just generally cause trouble. Sometimes they even announce that they're doing it. I guess if the consensus of VJ or else Ewok's opinion alone is that this is ok, then so be it.

[Alex+R 0]

Wait, are we seriously trying to decide the best way to determine "who started it"? Aren't we all responsible for each of our own actions, baited or not?

Sure, but I don't think that we can deny that we have our fair share of people around here who make it their purpose to "wind people up" and just generally cause trouble. Sometimes they even announce that they're doing it. I guess if the consensus of VJ or else Ewok's opinion alone is that this is ok, then so be it.

To me, rude behavior is rude behavior and if we're not tolerating it then we shouldn't tolerate it from anyone no matter what the cause of it. But I haven't read the whole thread and I might be missing something here (which I suspect is the case).