Need Help Regarding Child Birth Report Abroad Process

[Syed Amir Hassan 5]

Hi All,

 

I’m a male US citizen married to a Pakistani national on January 14, 2020. We were blessed with a baby boy on Oct 10, 2020. So, We decided to report the birth of our child at US consulate office in Islamabad on Oct 20, 2020. 
 

I had a previous marriage for which I got the divorce notice on Dec 3, 2019 but as per Pakistani law they gave 90 days reconciliation period so, the effective date for my divorce written on the Divorce certificate is March 02, 2020.  
 

I married to my second wife after I got the divorce notice date which was Dec 03, 2019. But at the time of CBRA, consulate officer told me that your effective divorce date is after your marriage registration date with second wife so you have to report child as out of wedlock. I’m worried now will that effect on the immigration process for my second wife, although I didn’t took any immigration benefit for my first wife. 
 

what should I do now, Please help me on this. I don’t want to get myself and my family in a difficult situation. Please guide... 

[payxibka 10,045]

6 minutes ago, Syed Amir Hassan said:

Hi All,

 

I’m a male US citizen married to a Pakistani national on January 14, 2020. We were blessed with a baby boy on Oct 10, 2020. So, We decided to report the birth of our child at US consulate office in Islamabad on Oct 20, 2020. 
 

I had a previous marriage for which I got the divorce notice on Dec 3, 2019 but as per Pakistani law they gave 90 days reconciliation period so, the effective date for my divorce written on the Divorce certificate is March 02, 2020.  
 

I married to my second wife after I got the divorce notice date which was Dec 03, 2019. But at the time of CBRA, consulate officer told me that your effective divorce date is after your marriage registration date with second wife so you have to report child as out of wedlock. I’m worried now will that effect on the immigration process for my second wife, although I didn’t took any immigration benefit for my first wife. 
 

what should I do now, Please help me on this. I don’t want to get myself and my family in a difficult situation. Please guide... 

It will affect your wife's immigration process until you resolve the marriage discrepancy. 

[Syed Amir Hassan 5]

4 minutes ago, payxibka said:

It will affect your wife's immigration process until you resolve the marriage discrepancy. 

Can you please suggest me to sign the out of wedlock clause for my child on CBRA application or just wait before fixing the marriage discrepancy?

[payxibka 10,045]

Just now, Syed Amir Hassan said:

Can you please suggest me to sign the out of wedlock clause for my child on CBRA application or just wait before fixing the marriage discrepancy?

The wedlock or out of wedlock is determined the day the child was born.  Anything you "fix" now doesn't change the situation on the day of birth.  You only have one choice. 

[SteveInBostonI130 3,459]

3 minutes ago, Syed Amir Hassan said:

Can you please suggest me to sign the out of wedlock clause for my child on CBRA application or just wait before fixing the marriage discrepancy?

Fix your situation to get your child the CBRA.

 

The embassy is already aware of your situation.  You cannot "hide" the discrepancy with your wife's petition by not doing the out of wedlock clause for your child.  

 

I would then suggest you seek legal or municipal help for your second marriage - perhaps get it annulled and then marry again?  Your marriage in Jan 2020 is not legal, per the information you provided.

[Crazy Cat 41,888]

27 minutes ago, Syed Amir Hassan said:

I’m a male US citizen married to a Pakistani national on January 14, 2020.

27 minutes ago, Syed Amir Hassan said:

so, the effective date for my divorce written on the Divorce certificate is March 02, 2020.  

 

I agree with the others who are saying that the CBRA issue is secondary to the real issue......I am no expert in Pakistani law, but it appears you are not legally married in the eyes of the US government.  Yes, this will have a big impact on the immigration process of your second wife.

[Syed Amir Hassan 5]

32 minutes ago, SteveInBostonI130 said:

Fix your situation to get your child the CBRA.

 

The embassy is already aware of your situation.  You cannot "hide" the discrepancy with your wife's petition by not doing the out of wedlock clause for your child.  

 

I would then suggest you seek legal or municipal help for your second marriage - perhaps get it annulled and then marry again?  Your marriage in Jan 2020 is not legal, per the information you provided.

I have already filed I-130 petition for my second wife with marriage date as January 14, 2020. So, you suggest me to withdraw the petition first by saying that it was not a legal marriage as my divorce was not finalized at that time. Then remarry to my current wife again and then file another I-130 petition for her at later date?? And In the meanwhile complete the CBRA process by out of wedlock clause??

[Chancy 6,241]

1 hour ago, Syed Amir Hassan said:

I have already filed I-130 petition for my second wife with marriage date as January 14, 2020. So, you suggest me to withdraw the petition first by saying that it was not a legal marriage as my divorce was not finalized at that time. Then remarry to my current wife again and then file another I-130 petition for her at later date?? And In the meanwhile complete the CBRA process by out of wedlock clause??

 

I think you need a lawyer familiar with the marriage laws of Pakistan.  Your marriage could be invalid.  Don't rely on random strangers on the Internet for something like this.  Fix your wife's immigration paperwork and your child's CRBA after you've sorted out the legalities around your marriage.

 

[pm5k 129]

6 hours ago, Syed Amir Hassan said:

Hi All,

 

I’m a male US citizen married to a Pakistani national on January 14, 2020. We were blessed with a baby boy on Oct 10, 2020. So, We decided to report the birth of our child at US consulate office in Islamabad on Oct 20, 2020. 
 

I had a previous marriage for which I got the divorce notice on Dec 3, 2019 but as per Pakistani law they gave 90 days reconciliation period so, the effective date for my divorce written on the Divorce certificate is March 02, 2020.  
 

I married to my second wife after I got the divorce notice date which was Dec 03, 2019. But at the time of CBRA, consulate officer told me that your effective divorce date is after your marriage registration date with second wife so you have to report child as out of wedlock. I’m worried now will that effect on the immigration process for my second wife, although I didn’t took any immigration benefit for my first wife. 
 

what should I do now, Please help me on this. I don’t want to get myself and my family in a difficult situation. Please guide... 

Oh boy....

 

Well, to start: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/Pakistan.html

 

Divorce Certificates

Available

Fees:  Fees vary by location.

Document Name:  Khula, Talaq, and Divorce Certificate

Issuing Authority:  Union Council

Special Seal(s) / Color / Format: This varies by location.

Issuing Authority Personnel Title: The Chairman of the Union Council, who also often serves as the Head of the Arbitration Council.

Registration Criteria:  Pakistani divorce laws for Muslims are governed by the Muslim Family Laws Ordinance (MFLO).  While the laws are complicated, all procedures set forth by the MFLO must be followed for divorces to be recognized for immigration purposes.  In general, couples seeking a divorce must submit a written notification to the Union Council of the wife’s residence, after which an Arbitration Council is formed to foster reconciliation between both parties over a 90-day period.  A divorce is finalized if the couple fails to reconcile at the end of this 90-day period.  (For more information on the process, see “Procedure for Obtaining” below.)

Procedure for Obtaining:  Muslim divorces in Pakistan are subject to arbitration, and the process of divorce differs depending on whether it is initiated by the husband (Talaq) or the wife (Khula).  For men initiating a divorce, husbands must verbally “divorce” their wife by pronouncing ‘talaq.’  As soon as possible, the divorcing husband must then give written notification to the Union Council where the wife resides or where the wedding took place.  Within 30 days of receipt of the notice of Talaq, the Union Council Chairman must constitute an Arbitration Council in order to see if reconciliation is possible between the husband and wife.  After the Council convenes, it must issue notices to both parties every month for three months in an attempt to foster reconciliation.  After three months (90 days), either party may request a failure of reconciliation certificate from the Union Council/Arbitration Council, upon which date the divorce is considered final and valid.  (For more information, refer to Section 7 of the MFLO.)

 

 

 

Unfortunately, what the officer has mentioned is true.  In Pakistan, a divorce is not valid until 90 days have passed after the date of notification.  The vast majority of Pakistanis themselves are not aware of this, and simply assume that the date of notification is the date of the divorce.  Heck, many Pakistani lawyers even mess this up (I know someone who went to a lawyer, and the lawyer literally made the same mistake).  The actual divorce process in Pakistan requires 90 days, and is described in the Muslim Family Laws Ordinance 1961.  If you look at old USCIS decisions , this situation has come up before (https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/eoir/legacy/2012/08/17/2222.pdf)  So it is highly unlikely that USCIS/NVC/The US government will overlook this and accept that your marriage is valid. 

 

Some more detail about how this happened:  You mentioned that you got divorced on Dec 03, 2019.  This divorce would not be finalized under Pakistani law until, at the earliest, March 3, 2020 (the law says that 90 days must pass, so the divorce is valid on the 91st day).  You got married on January 14, 2020, which means that you were technically still married to your first wife.  Your marriage may be valid under Pakistani law since Pakistani law allows a husband to have multiple wives, but the US does not recognize multiple marriages and therefore your second marriage is technically not valid under US law.  Your second marriage would only be valid if you got married on/after March 3, 2020.  Again, while most Pakistanis would accept that you were divorced, legally you were not.

 

Your child was born Oct 10, 2020.  Since your first marriage was in effect at the time of your second marriage, your second marriage was invalid under US law (not Pakistani law).  Your child would technically be born out of wedlock under US law but not Pakistani law. 

 

You have two issues that you need to address here:

1.  Validity of your marriage 

2.  Citizenship status of your child

 

Regarding #1 above - you will need to legally remarry your wife.  New nikah nama, marriage certificate, etc.  This is simply a legal procedure that you need to follow given your situation.  And no, she does not need to marry someone again to make her marriage to you valid.  Under US law, your marriage to her is not valid, so you have to get married again as if it were your first marriage.  This was even suggested in the case above.  You do not need to divorce your wife.  All you need to do is get a new nikah nama, and register your marriage again.  That's all.  If you have submitted an I-130 petition, you will probably have to submit a new one with the new documents.  You will probably also need to write something up explaining that you did not know that your divorce was not valid. 

 

Regarding #2 above - your child was born in Pakistan, and is therefore a citizen of Pakistan (Pakistan has birthright citizenship, and the child would also inherit citizenship from the mother).  You may still be able to transmit citizenship to your child via the process for US father + nonUS mother + out of wedlock:  https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/us-citizenship/Acquisition-US-Citizenship-Child-Born-Abroad.html

 

Option 2 - you may be able to follow this procedure:

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by pm5k
details

[pm5k 129]

5 hours ago, Syed Amir Hassan said:

I have already filed I-130 petition for my second wife with marriage date as January 14, 2020. So, you suggest me to withdraw the petition first by saying that it was not a legal marriage as my divorce was not finalized at that time. Then remarry to my current wife again and then file another I-130 petition for her at later date?? And In the meanwhile complete the CBRA process by out of wedlock clause??

See my post above - but yes, this is probably what you will need to do. 

[pm5k 129]

In summary, this is what I would suggest (I am not a lawyer, obligatory disclaimer, not to be taken as legal advice)

 

1. Based on what you describe, your current marriage is not valid.  You need to remarry your wife as if you are getting married for the first time.  You do not need to divorce your wife, and she does not need to marry someone else before marrying you.  You just need a fresh nikah nama and marriage registration certificate.  Your status would be "divorced", and your wife's would be "unmarried" on the nikah nama and marriage registration certificates. 

 

2.  You will probably need to withdraw your existing I-130 and submit a new one.  As for "have you petitioned previously for anyone", someone else may be able to answer better, but I would be honest.  Simply state that you made a mistake and that you did not know that your marriage was invalid.  You should probably check with a lawyer about this step. 

 

3.  If your marriage is invalid, it looks like you need to follow the out-of-wedlock procedure for CRBA.  Per US law, the child was technically born out of wedlock, so unfortunately this is the process you will have to follow.

 

4. If CRBA does not work, look into the baby transportation letter procedure outlined in the link above. 

 

5.  Your child is still a Pakistani citizen due to being born in Pakistan.  Even if you get CRBA, the child would be a dual citizen as Pakistan allows dual citizenship with the US. 

 

Best of luck to you.  Please let others know about the 90 day rule so that they are not in this situation. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by pm5k
detail

[Syed Amir Hassan 5]

6 hours ago, pm5k said:

Oh boy....

 

Well, to start: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Reciprocity-and-Civil-Documents-by-Country/Pakistan.html

 

Divorce Certificates

Available

Fees:  Fees vary by location.

Document Name:  Khula, Talaq, and Divorce Certificate

Issuing Authority:  Union Council

Special Seal(s) / Color / Format: This varies by location.

Issuing Authority Personnel Title: The Chairman of the Union Council, who also often serves as the Head of the Arbitration Council.

Registration Criteria:  Pakistani divorce laws for Muslims are governed by the Muslim Family Laws Ordinance (MFLO).  While the laws are complicated, all procedures set forth by the MFLO must be followed for divorces to be recognized for immigration purposes.  In general, couples seeking a divorce must submit a written notification to the Union Council of the wife’s residence, after which an Arbitration Council is formed to foster reconciliation between both parties over a 90-day period.  A divorce is finalized if the couple fails to reconcile at the end of this 90-day period.  (For more information on the process, see “Procedure for Obtaining” below.)

Procedure for Obtaining:  Muslim divorces in Pakistan are subject to arbitration, and the process of divorce differs depending on whether it is initiated by the husband (Talaq) or the wife (Khula).  For men initiating a divorce, husbands must verbally “divorce” their wife by pronouncing ‘talaq.’  As soon as possible, the divorcing husband must then give written notification to the Union Council where the wife resides or where the wedding took place.  Within 30 days of receipt of the notice of Talaq, the Union Council Chairman must constitute an Arbitration Council in order to see if reconciliation is possible between the husband and wife.  After the Council convenes, it must issue notices to both parties every month for three months in an attempt to foster reconciliation.  After three months (90 days), either party may request a failure of reconciliation certificate from the Union Council/Arbitration Council, upon which date the divorce is considered final and valid.  (For more information, refer to Section 7 of the MFLO.)

 

 

 

Unfortunately, what the officer has mentioned is true.  In Pakistan, a divorce is not valid until 90 days have passed after the date of notification.  The vast majority of Pakistanis themselves are not aware of this, and simply assume that the date of notification is the date of the divorce.  Heck, many Pakistani lawyers even mess this up (I know someone who went to a lawyer, and the lawyer literally made the same mistake).  The actual divorce process in Pakistan requires 90 days, and is described in the Muslim Family Laws Ordinance 1961.  If you look at old USCIS decisions , this situation has come up before (https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/eoir/legacy/2012/08/17/2222.pdf)  So it is highly unlikely that USCIS/NVC/The US government will overlook this and accept that your marriage is valid. 

 

Some more detail about how this happened:  You mentioned that you got divorced on Dec 03, 2019.  This divorce would not be finalized under Pakistani law until, at the earliest, March 3, 2020 (the law says that 90 days must pass, so the divorce is valid on the 91st day).  You got married on January 14, 2020, which means that you were technically still married to your first wife.  Your marriage may be valid under Pakistani law since Pakistani law allows a husband to have multiple wives, but the US does not recognize multiple marriages and therefore your second marriage is technically not valid under US law.  Your second marriage would only be valid if you got married on/after March 3, 2020.  Again, while most Pakistanis would accept that you were divorced, legally you were not.

 

Your child was born Oct 10, 2020.  Since your first marriage was in effect at the time of your second marriage, your second marriage was invalid under US law (not Pakistani law).  Your child would technically be born out of wedlock under US law but not Pakistani law. 

 

You have two issues that you need to address here:

1.  Validity of your marriage 

2.  Citizenship status of your child

 

Regarding #1 above - you will need to legally remarry your wife.  New nikah nama, marriage certificate, etc.  This is simply a legal procedure that you need to follow given your situation.  And no, she does not need to marry someone again to make her marriage to you valid.  Under US law, your marriage to her is not valid, so you have to get married again as if it were your first marriage.  This was even suggested in the case above.  You do not need to divorce your wife.  All you need to do is get a new nikah nama, and register your marriage again.  That's all.  If you have submitted an I-130 petition, you will probably have to submit a new one with the new documents.  You will probably also need to write something up explaining that you did not know that your divorce was not valid. 

 

Regarding #2 above - your child was born in Pakistan, and is therefore a citizen of Pakistan (Pakistan has birthright citizenship, and the child would also inherit citizenship from the mother).  You may still be able to transmit citizenship to your child via the process for US father + nonUS mother + out of wedlock:  https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/us-citizenship/Acquisition-US-Citizenship-Child-Born-Abroad.html

 

Option 2 - you may be able to follow this procedure:

 

 

 

Thank you so much for the detailed reply. Much appreciated! Could you more elaborate on remarrying process? How is that possible to get new Naka nama or Marriage certificate without having divorce?? 

[aaron2020 11,651]

You have a bigger problem than a mere discrepancy.   

You were legally married to two women at the same time.

 

While polygamy is legal in Pakistan, you are a US citizen and resident.  Polygamy is not legal in the US.  And it's definitely a barrier to getting an immigration visa.

You need to consult with a qualified immigration attorney.  This is not a DIY case.   Sorry, but you really messed up by marrying another woman before your divorce was final.  

[pm5k 129]

7 hours ago, aaron2020 said:

You have a bigger problem than a mere discrepancy.   

You were legally married to two women at the same time.

 

While polygamy is legal in Pakistan, you are a US citizen and resident.  Polygamy is not legal in the US.  And it's definitely a barrier to getting an immigration visa.

You need to consult with a qualified immigration attorney.  This is not a DIY case.   Sorry, but you really messed up by marrying another woman before your divorce was final.  

Technically the second marriage wasn't legal per US law, so he was only married once in the US' eyes

[pm5k 129]

  

7 hours ago, Syed Amir Hassan said:

Thank you so much for the detailed reply. Much appreciated! Could you more elaborate on remarrying process? How is that possible to get new Naka nama or Marriage certificate without having divorce?? 

 

You and your wife need to understand the nuances of your case.  Your case is complicated because your marriage would be legal in Pakistan (your wife being a second wife), but not in the US.  Because of this, even in Pakistan, you will find lawyers and UC personnel who say you need to get divorced before you remarry.  The problem with doing that is that your wife would technically need to marry someone else first before marrying you, which simply is not an option for countless reasons.  This will only complicate things. 

 

As for getting married again, I would think that you you just need to go to a UC or family court, and get married.  Start over, start fresh, as if you two were getting married the first time.  Just make sure your certificate says "divorced" for your status, and "unmarried" for her status.  Remember, per US law, you two are not married.

 

You may also want to get a lawyer to write you a letter on behalf of your case.  Make sure you find one that is familiar with the 90 day divorce rule.  Some of my friends have gone to lawyers and they were not familiar with this rule, so it only complicated things further.