SLEC 2020 experience

[Allovertheworld 355]

3 hours ago, payxibka said:

Bribe:  to persuade (someone) to act in one's favor by a gift of money or other inducement.

Oh Yea I have paid many in the Philippine, Money gets things done there.......

[payxibka 10,045]

1 hour ago, Allovertheworld said:

Oh Yea I have paid many in the Philippine, Money gets things done there.......

Then what prompted you to say you have never had to pay a bribe?

[user555 196]

15 hours ago, flicks1998 said:

Again, I understand TB is serious, but using SLEC is the wrong decision.  

The applicant pays PhP 17,025.00 and the sputum test is already included in that rate. What happens to that money if they don't need the sputum test? Why don't they refund that money back to the person? St Luke's just adds it to the general fund? If a third of an estimated 15,000 applicants need sputum at SLEC, that means two thirds do not. If it's 400 PHP per test, that's an easy 4 million pesos that goes into their account. 

My concern is also with their radiologist. I imagine that it's Barney Fife sitting back their with big coke-bottle glasses scrolling through the images saying "Yep!" or "Nope!". The radiologist is also supposed to have the doctor confirm it. How often does that happen (or does the doctor just sign the approval for a test because he/she trusts Barney)? 

I've looked for an annual report for St Luke's to see if they list how many applicants are required to go through sputum tests and then test negative. I would think that the radiologists flag a large number of people who are free of TB. I can't find anything. Maybe they're too embarrassed of the results. 

 

A PH nurse worked with TB patients in a hospital in the Philippines. She would have to get tested by that hospital every month. She was always healthy. She goes to SLEC and they flag her x-ray. The doctor told her just to do the sputum because she'll probably test negative. What a worthless answer! 
She does test negative, moves to the US, has another TB test, and the US doctor said she is healthy. She always has been. She showed the doctor her SLEC results and he was dumbfounded by their incompetence. 

 

In Nov 2018, lovemeow said:

"

YES, i know. TB kills. I'm a Nurse in Infectious Ward, most of my patients are Active TB, i handled and cared for ALL kinds of TB. But I just feel frustrated how SLEC assess the applicants. As a Nurse (especially for Infectious Department), i am having my X-Ray, doing all kinds of Swabs (Nose, Throat and Sputum) every month and numerous Vaccines as a saftey protocol and I have always been tested Negative in bloods with CLEAR Xrays, with High Immunity... then coming to SLEC, suddenly something appeared in my X-Ray. I felt frustrated thinking maybe I have acquired the TB already, when I asked the Doctor in SLEC a lot of questions, she said while looking at my file, "OH, YOU'RE A NURSE, NO WONDER", I  dont know what she meant by saying that... is it just because I'm a Nurse and they're expecting me to be tested or is it just why am i asking too many questions... because i was staring at my X-Ray when she showed it to me and I cant see anything but then she said, " Maybe you had TB without you knowing. Anyways, bigger chances you'll be Negative and just wait 2 months"... with that kind of answer from their doctor it was very unprofessional so I don't trust them at all

 

 but then I have nothing else to do but comply...

 

Coming here to US, I did an X-ray and Sputum exam after 2 weeks of my arrival, and it was very CLEAR... The US doctor (from Public Health) said, my lungs are perfect... then I showed my CD Xray results from SLEC... the doctor said there's nothing and wondered.. he even told me "It's funny how the results of your Medical in your country came out""

 

 

 

[PWB 213]

Don't wish to create controversy but those of us who have been victimized by SLEC and this sputum testing scam have plenty reason to be upset.  SLEC blames the Embassy for the protocol, the Embassy blames the Department of State and CDC.  In the mean time the customer, which is us because we paid for this service, suffers.  I have been through this process a total of 3 times.  My fiancée has come out of this protocol negative for TB each time,  but yet every time the Embassy allows for the physical to expire I pay for a new one and it is automatic that she goes through sputum testing again based on the original physical over a year ago.    Ask around and you will find that far too many are ordered to sputum testing because of some mysterious little  white line detected in the Xray.

[Carpe Vinum 2,327]

4 hours ago, PWB said:

Don't wish to create controversy but those of us who have been victimized by SLEC and this sputum testing scam have plenty reason to be upset.  SLEC blames the Embassy for the protocol, the Embassy blames the Department of State and CDC.  In the mean time the customer, which is us because we paid for this service, suffers.  I have been through this process a total of 3 times.  My fiancée has come out of this protocol negative for TB each time,  but yet every time the Embassy allows for the physical to expire I pay for a new one and it is automatic that she goes through sputum testing again based on the original physical over a year ago.    Ask around and you will find that far too many are ordered to sputum testing because of some mysterious little  white line detected in the Xray.

It would be interesting to know what the percentage is that are flagged.

[user555 196]

On 10/1/2020 at 3:30 AM, boris64 said:

It would be interesting to know what the percentage is that are flagged.

CFO has an Excel spreadsheet on the "Number of Filipino Spouses and Other Partners of Foreign Nationals by Major Country"

https://cfo.gov.ph/wp-content/uploads/statistics/FS/FS-1989-2018-by-MAJORCOUNTRY.xlsx

The average is around 18,000 foreign spouses per year, but I don't think all of them went through CFO as spouses/fiances, so let's assume 15,000 per year. 

 

On pages 35-36, it has some interesting statistics about marriages. 

"Filipinos are most likely to marry American, Japanese and Australian citizens."

"Majority of marriage migrants (92%) are female."

"62% of marriage migrants have no professional work experience prior to migration."

"7.25% have no knowledge about their new host country." 

https://cfo.gov.ph/wp-content/uploads/pdf/2017/2015compendiumstats-insidepages-2017-06-29.pdf

It also supports the numbers that 15,000-20,000 leave the PH every year for foreign marriages (but it has been declining). 

 

 

Incidence of tuberculosis (554 per 100,000 people) - Philippines = .00554

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.TBS.INCD?locations=PH

 

If 15,000 people go through SLEC and 1/3 get flagged, that means 5,000 get sputum tests and 27 people will have TB. (5,000 x .00554 = 27.7) So that means St. Luke's is flagging thousands of people every year and 99% of them will not have TB. They may flag more people like parents and older teenagers. I was just looking at marriage stats. 

 

I'm basing my 1/3 number (5,000 people) on my wife's observations of how many people were at her sputum collection area compared to her medical testing day and this post: 

 

jimmynug: My mother in law just had her medical on Tuesday, and now is going through the sputum exam. She said there were over 500 people at St Lukes on Wednesday for the sputum collection. These would have been from medicals on last Friday, Monday, and Tuesday. There were about 600 taking medicals on Monday, less on Tuesday, and I don't know on Friday. However, if it averaged 500 a day, then about 1/3 of all people taking medicals on these days were having to do sputum exams. With TB trying to make a comeback in the US, looks like the govt is really getting after St. Luke's to be careful.

Just some more info, I did quick research and it seems like the sputum smear by itself does not mean much, but compared with the ex-ray, it starts meaning more. Either way, there is the two month wait for the culture, unless it shows positive sooner.

 

 

 

My wife said they stick everyone on a rooftop outside. It's 70 people hacking and coughing around each other and trying to cover their testing cup so there is no cross contamination of the person sitting 3 ft (1 meter) away from you. It was hot and humid outside. Since she's not sick, she had a hard time coughing up sputum. She even bought a nebulizer and told the staff on the second day about it. They put her in an AC room for Day 2 and 3. Now we have to wait. 

[Allovertheworld 355]

On 9/29/2020 at 3:17 PM, payxibka said:

Bribe:  to persuade (someone) to act in one's favor by a gift of money or other inducement.

Bribe : to persuade (someone) to act in one's favor, typically illegally or dishonestly, by a gift of money or other inducement.

 

That is the definition I got when I googled the word.

 

 

[Allovertheworld 355]

On 9/29/2020 at 8:14 PM, payxibka said:

Then what prompted you to say you have never had to pay a bribe?

Because I have never 'had to"

 

I guess it's a matter of definition.  I have never had to, I always voluntary usually slipped some cash to make things happens.  Sometimes they didn't turn out in my way, but most of times they did

[user555 196]

On 10/1/2020 at 3:30 AM, boris64 said:

It would be interesting to know what the percentage is that are flagged.

https://europepmc.org/article/pmc/6390485#S15

Table 2a

1.03% had TB

13.63% were flagged but negative 

 

Annual averages

 

46, 363 applicants per year (mother, father, children, sibling, spouse, fiance)

6, 798 were flagged with abnormal chest x-rays

6, 319 were negative (no TB)

479 had TB 

 

 Around 15% of SLEC visa applicants are flagged due to an unclear x-ray. 

[*Queen* 26]

Was flagged for sputum too today... 😭I have to go back for 3 consecutive days for it. I was really devastated because I never had a problem with my X-ray before.  Almost every year I had to do my medical including X-ray because it's a requirement at work and everything always turned out alright. So I was shocked when they told me that I have to undergo a sputum test. I already have a scheduled interview on the 28th but they told me they will call the embassy to cancel the interview. 😭 We waited to be scheduled for months. And our case at NVC is already a year now. We paid the fees on 7 January 2020 and my documents will be expiring on December. This is really frustrating...

 

IR1-Manila

Case Created: October 2019

Paid fees: January 2020

DQ:March 2020

 

[user555 196]

2 hours ago, Miyaka said:

Was flagged for sputum too today... 😭I have to go back for 3 consecutive days for it. I was really devastated because I never had a problem with my X-ray before.  Almost every year I had to do my medical including X-ray because it's a requirement at work and everything always turned out alright. So I was shocked when they told me that I have to undergo a sputum test. I already have a scheduled interview on the 28th but they told me they will call the embassy to cancel the interview. 😭 We waited to be scheduled for months. And our case at NVC is already a year now. We paid the fees on 7 January 2020 and my documents will be expiring on December. This is really frustrating...

 

IR1-Manila

Case Created: October 2019

Paid fees: January 2020

DQ:March 2020

 

I am sorry to hear this. The good news is that you have a 93% chance of getting a negative result after 2 months. The radiologists at SLEC just flag any x-ray they deem as unclear. That means that they are only accurate 7% of the time with this group of people. That is a terrible success rate.   

 

SLEC says that they are following the CDC's rules. 

The CDC has two documents out about TB testing. 

 

CDC Official American Clinical Practice Guidelines: Diagnosis of Tuberculosis in Adults and Children

https://www.cdc.gov/tb/publications/guidelines/pdf/ciw778.pdf

If latent TB, do an x-ray and IGRA for all individuals over 5 years old.

If active TB, do an x-ray and sputum for all individuals over 5 years old.

 

SLEC doesn't know whether your x-ray shows latent or active TB. They can't even tell the difference between TB, pneumonia, bronchiolitis, lymphoproliferative, or a virus called Mycobacterium celatum that mimics the lung scarring caused by TB but is not TB. 

 

CDC Tuberculosis Technical Instructions for Panel Physicians

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/exams/ti/panel/tuberculosis-panel-technical-instructions.html

children from ages 2-14 will do an IGRA

people aged 15 and above will do sputum  

 

The Instructions for Panel Physicians seems to go against what they said for the Clinical Practice Guidelines. I actually emailed the CDC about this, but as expected, never received a reply.   

[flicks1998 1,044]

1 hour ago, user555 said:

I am sorry to hear this. The good news is that you have a 93% chance of getting a negative result after 2 months. The radiologists at SLEC just flag any x-ray they deem as unclear. That means that they are only accurate 7% of the time with this group of people. That is a terrible success rate.   

 

SLEC says that they are following the CDC's rules. 

The CDC has two documents out about TB testing. 

 

CDC Official American Clinical Practice Guidelines: Diagnosis of Tuberculosis in Adults and Children

https://www.cdc.gov/tb/publications/guidelines/pdf/ciw778.pdf

If latent TB, do an x-ray and IGRA for all individuals over 5 years old.

If active TB, do an x-ray and sputum for all individuals over 5 years old.

 

SLEC doesn't know whether your x-ray shows latent or active TB. They can't even tell the difference between TB, pneumonia, bronchiolitis, lymphoproliferative, or a virus called Mycobacterium celatum that mimics the lung scarring caused by TB but is not TB. 

 

CDC Tuberculosis Technical Instructions for Panel Physicians

https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/exams/ti/panel/tuberculosis-panel-technical-instructions.html

children from ages 2-14 will do an IGRA

people aged 15 and above will do sputum  

 

The Instructions for Panel Physicians seems to go against what they said for the Clinical Practice Guidelines. I actually emailed the CDC about this, but as expected, never received a reply.   

If I was there and this occurred, I would take my fiance to St Lukes in BGC or Makati Med and do an immediate TB test.  Then once you get the negative TB test, keep it until your next appointment at SLEC in 2 months and bring it with you and show the results.  It wont change anything, but will start to expose the corruption and the incompetence at SLEC.

 

As you mention, the medical exams to get a job in the Philippines are MUCH more intensive than what SLEC does to get a visa.  Even to be an OFW, you need to do the TB tests and a much thorough medical exam.  Its funny that for years you can have no problem with any of these tests, then all of a sudden SLEC starts requiring more in-depth testing.  Im sure there are times that SLEC find real cases of TB, but most of this is just a scam or its doctors who cannot effectively read X-rays.  

 

[user555 196]

21 hours ago, flicks1998 said:

but most of this is just a scam or its doctors who cannot effectively read X-rays.  

 

You would think SLEC would want less people going through sputum tests so they could collect free money. If there are 46, 363 applicants per year (mother, father, children, sibling, spouse, fiance),, and 85% have a clear x-ray, then that applicant still pays the full amount. From what I could gather, a sputum test is around $10. Let's say 80% of the applicants are adults. 37,090 adults get an x-ray and 85% have clear x-rays (31,526 people). They pay for a sputum test but don't have to go through with it. That's $310,526 that SLEC pockets. The less people that go through sputum, the more they make!   

[user555 196]

I called SLEC last week because the eight weeks were almost up on my wife's sputum test. The employee said to just come on the day printed on the sheet. My wife emailed them the day before she was supposed to go back, and they said the results were already available. On SLEC's website, it says Immunization opens at 7 AM. In the email, they said that Immunization starts at 8 AM. My wife showed up at 7:30 AM and they let her in at 8 AM. However, they said they won't start seeing people until 9 AM. She got her 2 shots at 10 AM and left. No TB. 

We waited 2 months for SLEC to tell us what we already knew. My wife does not have TB. I don't know how their radiologists can make so many mistakes. My wife asked for a copy of the x-ray. They refused to give it to her. I guess they don't want to reveal how bad they are at judging x-rays. If they make so many mistakes with "unclear" x-rays, how many mistakes do they make with "clear" x-rays? How many people with TB slip through the "clear" x-ray test since the radiologists are just eyeballing things? 

Back in September, they gave her a sheet that said her medical will expire in 5 months (in February). Now, they said the vaccination worksheet is the true expiration (end of June 2021). SLEC's information is all over the place and oftentimes wrong. That's what we get when there is a monopoly on things. 

 

  

[payxibka 10,045]

The consulate will determine the true expiration of the medical and will tie expiration of the visa on that day