Why We Stand for the American Flag

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

1 minute ago, jeanieCZ said:

I have expressed my opinions. That is not the same as telling others how to think about sth. 

 

I believe one can be patriotic and love their country but at the same time recognize there are matters in said country that could be better. I feel (this is expressing a personal opinion, again) that if I were to express disagreement with what's wrong in my country by not standing for the flag but kneeling, which I perceive as an act of humility, I would actually feel the flag compells me to do so. Note that none of this involves political calculations, own interest, wiping one's butt with the flag or burning it, breaking into stores, tearing down statues, any aggression against anybody etc etc.

You said: "People in this country need to stop getting offended all the time by actions of others." without even addressing the issues presented. Sure, that's expressing an opinion, but it's unequivocally telling people how to think. 

 

You also said you, as a foreigner, thought it was an act of humility -- maybe you can explain how the actions by this person is humility when it draws attention to themselves and away from the national anthem and team sport, neither which is about *them* and their personal political causes.

 

I don't speak for those who are "offended" by the moronic kneeling, but I absolutely understand why they are, and I, myself, dislike the sideshow spectacle because the point of the NFL is about football, not about one's personal political views taking center stage. I also know the suggestion that this sideshow has anything to do with what we're told it does is simply a lie because of what they promote. 

[jeanieCZ 228]

5 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

You said: "People in this country need to stop getting offended all the time by actions of others." without even addressing the issues presented. Sure, that's expressing an opinion, but it's unequivocally telling people how to think. 

What I meant is that actions of others reflect their thinking and beliefs and are not a reason for one to feel personally attacked. I apologize.

5 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

 

You also said you, as a foreigner, thought it was an act of humility -- maybe you can explain how the actions by this person is humility when it draws attention to themselves and away from the national anthem and team sport, neither which is about *them* and their personal political causes.

I already said I was talking aout the good cause and not about the aggressive moronic ways that are being used as a cover by some. Maybe I'm just naive. 

 

5 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

 

I don't speak for those who are "offended" by the moronic kneeling, but I absolutely understand why they are, and I, myself, dislike the sideshow spectacle because the point of the NFL is about football, not about one's personal political views taking center stage. I also know the suggestion that this sideshow has anything to do with what we're told it does is simply a lie because of what they promote. 

Public figures always used their popularity to promote an idea, haven't they? And when would be a better time to do so than when all the cameras are on them? It owuld be nice if we could remove politics from so many areas of our lives, wouldn't it? But well, even your signature is political, so :p I guess everyone finds a podium they think is suitable to their cause  

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

13 minutes ago, jeanieCZ said:

What I meant is that actions of others reflect their thinking and beliefs and are not a reason for one to feel personally attacked. I apologize.

I already said I was talking aout the good cause and not about the aggressive moronic ways that are being used as a cover by some. Maybe I'm just naive. 

 

Public figures always used their popularity to promote an idea, haven't they? And when would be a better time to do so than when all the cameras are on them? It owuld be nice if we could remove politics from so many areas of our lives, wouldn't it? But well, even your signature is political, so 😛 I guess everyone finds a podium they think is suitable to their cause  

I didn't see any actions directly referenced, which is why its easy to tell its simply about what people think.

 

We'll go baby steps then.. what good cause again does one see when the guy who is kneeling and drawing all this attention to himself (at his work venue) over his team, sport, and country, is also wearing pig cop socks and promoting Castro and Che? You want politics removed from this aspect, strange how you ignore the wretched politics introduced here. 🤔

 

I've been involved in campaigns before (when in California to promote gay marriage against the last infamous ban amendment the state passed), no one but the most politically divisive would've saw things my way if I decided to do so at work and wear a t-shirt of Jesus being bent over by Satan in a sexual position as a way of promoting my cause.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, jeanieCZ said:

I believe one can be patriotic and love their country but at the same time recognize there are matters in said country that could be better. I feel (this is expressing a personal opinion, again) that if I were to express disagreement with what's wrong in my country by not standing for the flag but kneeling, which I perceive as an act of humility, I would actually feel the flag compells me to do so. Note that none of this involves political calculations, own interest, wiping one's butt with the flag or burning it, breaking into stores, tearing down statues, any aggression against anybody etc etc.

 

@Voice of Reason Have you lived outside of the US?

 

@yuna628 "As long as we're talking about respecting the flag, I'd assume that some of ya'll would get really angry and bring attention and awareness to the very awful practice of wearing the flag as thongs and bikinis, shoes, tshirts with various offensive slogans, sweat rags, towels, kleenax, cakes, sex toys, and toilet seats." 

Interesting point. I would like to know what @Voice of Reason and @Burnt Reynolds think about that. 

Yes, they can.  Just as those who choose to disrespect the flag/anthem could choose another method of expressing their dissatisfaction with any perceived imbalance, and it would probably garner more traction.  Instead, it causes many people to turn a blind eye to the situation.  (Note, kneeling before a grave, or the memorial of a dead soldier, which has the flag present, would be an act of humility.  Kneeling to protest our nation, not so much.  My opinion, of course.)

 

Of course.

 

I agree with her, it's wrong.  But just like I don't get to stop people from kneeling, I also don't get to tell them what clothes to wear. (once, my wife wanted to buy a Stars and Stripes bathing suit.  It was cute.  But I vetoed the purchase.  When we got home, I showed her why, and she thanked me for educating her, but that's my limit of control over another's clothing)  If I see someone violating the US Code in regards to the flag, I try to gently lead them to what is right.  As an example, I have a neighbor who is from Canada, but also a USC.  He proudly flies an American flag outside his home.  He has pride and respect for his new country, and feels it is a good thing to show such.  But after we got to know one another a lot better, I helped him to understand that aside from the 10 prescribed locations, a flag shouldn't be left out 24/7 while unlit, and shouldn't be flown in inclement weather unless it is of the all-weather variety.  He was happy to learn of it, and took it down until he could install a light to keep it illuminated.  Not a big deal, and I knew his heart was in the right place.  He just was never in a position to become familiar with the code.

[TBoneTX 45,571]

I'm pressed to remember any other VJ thread in which I wished to give 1,000 upvotes to so many posts.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

15 hours ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

I didn't see any actions directly referenced, which is why its easy to tell its simply about what people think.

 

We'll go baby steps then.. what good cause again does one see when the guy who is kneeling and drawing all this attention to himself (at his work venue) over his team, sport, and country, is also wearing pig cop socks and promoting Castro and Che? You want politics removed from this aspect, strange how you ignore the wretched politics introduced here. 🤔

 

I've been involved in campaigns before (when in California to promote gay marriage against the last infamous ban amendment the state passed), no one but the most politically divisive would've saw things my way if I decided to do so at work and wear a t-shirt of Jesus being bent over by Satan in a sexual position as a way of promoting my cause.

Follow-up for when @jeanieCZ decides to answer:

 

[Dashinka 24,628]

6 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

I'm pressed to remember any other VJ thread in which I wished to give 1,000 upvotes to so many posts.

Is that the ultra-secret Diamond Plan?

[jeanieCZ 228]

On 9/23/2020 at 5:02 PM, Burnt Reynolds said:

what good cause again does one see when the guy who is kneeling and drawing all this attention to himself (at his work venue) over his team, sport, and country, is also wearing pig cop socks and promoting Castro and Che? You want politics removed from this aspect, strange how you ignore the wretched politics introduced here. 🤔

I was NOT talking about whoever you keep mentioning. I was talking about the sole act of kneeling. I've seen F1 drivers kneel. 

 

13 hours ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

Follow-up for when @jeanieCZ decides to answer:

 

 

Sorry for not responding immediately, I also have other things to do  

 

What about that tweet? Kaepernick yelling that police should be abolished? I already said how I feel about that   (that is disagree)

 

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

14 minutes ago, jeanieCZ said:

I was NOT talking about whoever you keep mentioning. I was talking about the sole act of kneeling. I've seen F1 drivers kneel. 

 

 

Sorry for not responding immediately, I also have other things to do  

 

What about that tweet? Kaepernick yelling that police should be abolished? I already said how I feel about that   (that is disagree)

 

fyi Kaepernick is the one who started this kneeling stuff, so if your position is to be educated on it, it makes sense to understand where it derives from and the underpinnings of it:

 

Quote

But while Hamilton refused to criticise the decision of Max Verstappen, Charles Leclerc, Kimi Räikkönen, Daniil Kvyat, Carlos Sainz and Antonio Giovinazzi, the six-times champion admitted that he had been inspired to speak out against racism when the former NFL player Colin Kaepernick began kneeling in protest in 2016.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/05/i-was-silenced-hamilton-reveals-regret-after-being-warned-off-past-protests

 

I know all about this because my NFL team is the 49ers and I watched as what was a decent overall athlete stubbornly refused to learn how to play his position, got worse, then used his dwindling fame to wedge, polarize, and draw attention to himself over others, among other antics cited like the socks, shirts, and vocal support, all from his work venues, setting himself up for this even further polarizing race-baiting social justice trash he monetizes now. There was no actual connection between the things he did and the reasons he cited. 

 

Fittingly, the people kneeling are paying homage to that. Not their best nor brightest moments, and it's enough of a moronic sideshow that plenty of people are not watching these sports/activities as a result. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,376]

On 9/23/2020 at 1:46 PM, jeanieCZ said:

You can think that. However, if it were true, I wouldn't be here, reading and responding. 

 

I definitely was neither promoting, nor defending pig-cop socks and/or Castro/Che. I was only talking about expressing support. 

If there's a way for ppl in this country to find a way to live in peace, it's not through trashing one another. So I definitely don't support any such actions. 

 

I also like to watch sports - I watched the US Open tennis and saw Naomi Osaka wear facemasks with the names of people recently killed. Did I think it was okay? Yes, because she wanted attention for the fact that people lost their life. And I do believe that deserves attention. 

Then I saw Osaka's boyfriend during the finals, wearing a T-shirt that read "defund police" (or sth similar, I don't remember exactly). Did I think that was okay? No, because calling for defunding of police means one picked a side and its aggression delutes the message. 

This is why I cant take BLM serious. This kind of tragedy goes on daily in  America.

 

Its not unusual to have 50 young black men shot just in Chicago every weekend, but we never here a peep about that. All we here is that Black men are in danger in America because of the police, which is absurd.

 

Just absorb this. A young black girl shot in the back, by young black men. This kind of tragedy is happening daily across America. If Black Lives really mattered to these people, this would be the narrative.  

 

Bibb deputies investigating shooting of 13-year-old Macon girl

 

https://www.13wmaz.com/article/news/local/bibb-deputies-investigating-shooting-of-13-year-old-macon-girl/93-6ef4f8c9-8287-4392-a1e5-ea2844953616