Why We Stand for the American Flag

[TBoneTX 45,571]

Yes, and wow.  Comments?

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Why We Stand for the American Flag

by J.B. Shurk - September 18, 2020

 

Now that the political left has decided to strain our few remaining bonds of national unity by encouraging disrespect for the American flag and the National Anthem, will there ever be a day in the future when Americans can pause from political division and join together as one nation to remember all we've accomplished?  Can the athletes who have decided to kneel in protest of America imagine that future?  [...]

 

Continues here: https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/09/why_we_stand_for_the_american_flag.html  

 

[jeanieCZ 228]

11 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

will there ever be a day in the future when Americans can pause from political division and join together as one nation to remember all we've accomplished?

This is THE crucial part, in my opinion. The problem in this country is division and the will to keep the division alive&kicking. 

 

If one doesn't stand for the flag because they are too busy chewing a gum or picking their nose is a different caliber of disrespect than kneeling down because one wants to show support to a good cause. I guess I think a schisma in the society and racial division to the degree seen in the US is a good enough reason for one to kneel. 

 

Kneeling btw to me seems like an act of humility, so I don't know why it would be disrespectful to the flag. 

People in this country need to stop getting offended all the time by actions of others. 

[Neonred 3,576]

3 hours ago, jeanieCZ said:

 

 

Kneeling btw to me seems like an act of humility, so I don't know why it would be disrespectful to the flag. 

 

While everyone else is respecting the flag, the kneelers are pushing another agenda

[TBoneTX 45,571]

Every time these spoiled, overpaid athletes mouth off and kneel off, I look at Grandpa T-B.'s Army Air Forces uniform from World War II and regain perspective.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

14 hours ago, jeanieCZ said:

Kneeling btw to me seems like an act of humility, so I don't know why it would be disrespectful to the flag. 

People in this country need to stop getting offended all the time by actions of others. 

Given that you are not from this country, and apparently do not understand our customs and courtesies, it is no surprise that you don't understand.  You are forgiven.

 

Suffice it to say, if I were in your country, I would pay whatever traditional respect is rendered when playing your version of a national anthem, just as any of your men and women do.

[jeanieCZ 228]

6 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

Given that you are not from this country, and apparently do not understand our customs and courtesies, it is no surprise that you don't understand.  You are forgiven.

I was expressing my opinion, so I don't think I am in need to be forgiven.

 

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Suffice it to say, if I were in your country, I would pay whatever traditional respect is rendered when playing your version of a national anthem, just as any of your men and women do.

Wait, I think I misunderstood sth: As far as I am aware, (many) athletes who kneel are US Citizens. But it sounds like you think that non-USCs disrespect your (=USCitizen's) flag? 

 

I'm not sure what you meant by "playing your version of a national anthem". There is only one national anthem of the Czech Republic, not several versions. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by jeanieCZ

[JFH 12,190]

Anyone who kneels for the flag has obviously never been presented with a folded one. 

[jeanieCZ 228]

1 hour ago, JFH said:

Anyone who kneels for the flag has obviously never been presented with a folded one. 

You know this for a fact? And how does it relate to the kneeling?

 

I don't mean to argue. My point is this: Obviously, I am a foreigner, so I don't feel about the US flag the same way a person born in the US does. But I am here to learn. You can either explain your points (which might help me to start understanding things), or post stuff that only insiders understand (which will not teach me anything). Having said that, I know you don't have to educate me or anybody and that's fine. 

Then kneeling/respect for flag/expression of one's support/protest is a complex topic....also a matter of opinion. Which is why if you don't elaborate, I can't but not understand. 

 

One can argue that ppl should respect the flag no matter what. I would argue that ppl are free to express their opinions. 

 

No offence taken and none intended. 

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by jeanieCZ

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

1 hour ago, jeanieCZ said:

You know this for a fact? And how does it relate to the kneeling?

 

I don't mean to argue. My point is this: Obviously, I am a foreigner, so I don't feel about the US flag the same way a person born in the US does. But I am here to learn. You can either explain your points (which might help me to start understanding things), or post stuff that only insiders understand (which will not teach me anything). Having said that, I know you don't have to educate me or anybody and that's fine. 

Then kneeling/respect for flag/expression of one's support/protest is a complex topic....also a matter of opinion. Which is why if you don't elaborate, I can't but not understand. 

 

One can argue that ppl should respect the flag no matter what. I would argue that ppl are free to express their opinions. 

 

No offence taken and none intended. 

 

No you're not, you've already told us how to think about it. 

 

I have the service flag from my father's casket when he died, and we have it proudly in a glass encasing with his service picture (which is also on his grave). I'm not the moral proselytizing type, so I have no qualms with idiots protesting the flag or anthem (from a rights perspective), but I'm smart enough to know that simultaneous stunts wearing pig-cop socks and the Castro/Che promoting stuff along with kneeling for the anthem has zero to do with "police" issues, they're using their job as a platform for being piles of trash to the country they live in (and in the case of Kaepernick also trashing white people, people who adopted him and helped give him the opportunity he has), and there's no sympathizing with millionaire crybabies trying to wedge American society.

 

Many of us just watch American football for the sport (which really goes for any other sport), not to watch people politically grandstand and behave like ten year old edgelord morons, which is what this is about, not about "protesting injustice", police brutality, racism, and whatever political issue word soup they want to contrive. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[jeanieCZ 228]

1 minute ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

No you're not, you've already told us how to think about it. 

You can think that. However, if it were true, I wouldn't be here, reading and responding. 

 

1 minute ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

 

I have the service flag from my father's casket when he died, and we have it proudly in a glass encasing with his service picture (which is also on his grave). I'm not the moral proselytizing type, so I have no qualms with idiots protesting the flag or anthem (from a rights perspective), but I'm smart enough to know that simultaneous stunts wearing pig-cop socks and the Castro/Che promoting stuff along with kneeling for the anthem has zero to do with "police" issues, they're using their job as a platform for being piles of trash to the country they live in (and in the case of Kaepernick also trashing white people, people who adopted him and helped give him the opportunity he has), and there's no sympathizing with millionaire crybabies trying to wedge American society.

I definitely was neither promoting, nor defending pig-cop socks and/or Castro/Che. I was only talking about expressing support. 

If there's a way for ppl in this country to find a way to live in peace, it's not through trashing one another. So I definitely don't support any such actions. 

 

1 minute ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

Many of us just watch American football for the sport (which really goes for any other sport), not to watch people politically grandstand and behave like ten year old edgelord morons.

I also like to watch sports - I watched the US Open tennis and saw Naomi Osaka wear facemasks with the names of people recently killed. Did I think it was okay? Yes, because she wanted attention for the fact that people lost their life. And I do believe that deserves attention. 

Then I saw Osaka's boyfriend during the finals, wearing a T-shirt that read "defund police" (or sth similar, I don't remember exactly). Did I think that was okay? No, because calling for defunding of police means one picked a side and its aggression delutes the message. 

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

21 minutes ago, jeanieCZ said:

You can think that. However, if it were true, I wouldn't be here, reading and responding. 

 

I definitely was neither promoting, nor defending pig-cop socks and/or Castro/Che. I was only talking about expressing support. 

If there's a way for ppl in this country to find a way to live in peace, it's not through trashing one another. So I definitely don't support any such actions. 

 

I also like to watch sports - I watched the US Open tennis and saw Naomi Osaka wear facemasks with the names of people recently killed. Did I think it was okay? Yes, because she wanted attention for the fact that people lost their life. And I do believe that deserves attention. 

Then I saw Osaka's boyfriend during the finals, wearing a T-shirt that read "defund police" (or sth similar, I don't remember exactly). Did I think that was okay? No, because calling for defunding of police means one picked a side and its aggression delutes the message. 

You told us that these divisions are reason enough to kneel.. except these divisions were sown and amplified by these people. So, no.

 

Their message isn't serious nor is it to learn anything from, taking into account the entirety of their actions and not simply putting one specific thing under a microscope. And note the genius starting this, Kaepernick, didn't really start doing this stuff until he was on his way out with the 49ers, saw his football career going the way of Tebow, and decided to start kneeling when Trump was the GOP nominee. I also notice players in other leagues starting to engage in similar polarizing antics in other leagues around the same time, which tells me there was something coordinated about it. Kaepernick has since profited immensely from sowing racial divisions. There's no need to say any more, even though I certainly can, while everyone has the right to be a moron, put it in perspective from us plebs if it was us protesting our job in this way, we'd be fired in a heartbeat. These are pampered losers for one reason or another trying to upend societal norms as a way of destabilizing the USA. If it wasn't for the rotten US foreign policy since WW2 doing this very thing to other countries I'd not be aware of the premise of this tactic.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

3 hours ago, jeanieCZ said:

I was expressing my opinion, so I don't think I am in need to be forgiven.

 

Wait, I think I misunderstood sth: As far as I am aware, (many) athletes who kneel are US Citizens. But it sounds like you think that non-USCs disrespect your (=USCitizen's) flag? 

 

I'm not sure what you meant by "playing your version of a national anthem". There is only one national anthem of the Czech Republic, not several versions. 

I meant that you should be forgiven for not understanding our tradition of honoring our country/flag/anthem.  

 

No, it has nothing to do with non-USCs at all.  

 

Your version = different than the US version (or any country, for that matter).  By which I meant that whatever traditional/national form of respect your country deemed owed to your flag/anthem when played, I too would render such respect/salute if I were there and it was displayed/played.  If that tradition called for kneeling, then I would kneel.  If it called for standing, removing my hat, and placing my hand over my heart, I would to that.  I feel it is important to honor the traditions of any country in which I am living or am a guest.

 

There is a US flag code, and it lays out the proper methods of display, respect, destruction, and fines for not doing so.  While the whole fines thing has pretty much been laid to waste by the "freedom of speech" thing, the rules were created for a reason.  People who kneel during the anthem as opposed to rendering the called-for respect are essentially denying that level of respect because of some issue they have, basically thumbing their noses at the country/service men and women who allow them their very freedoms.  They are essentially turning their backs on the notion of properly respecting their nation.

 

Uniting behind a common/noble goal is a good thing.  Disrespecting your country to attempt to make a point is not.  Disrespecting time-honored traditions does not lend itself towards gaining respect for your cause.  America is a land of freedoms, and the most-migrated-to country in the world for a reason.  Those who live here should be proud to be doing so.  Kneeling during the anthem is seen as disrespectful to most citizens, takes away from a long-loved sport, and does NOTHING to unite the citizens of this country, it simply causes more of a divide.

 

Put another way, if you wanted me to join in your battle against oppression, you'd not be likely to get me to join your cause by coming into my yard and peeing on my shoes to illustrate how it feels to be treated poorly.  Your message would be obscured by your actions.

[yuna628 9,686]

 

As long as we're talking about respecting the flag, I'd assume that some of ya'll would get really angry and bring attention and awareness to the very awful practice of wearing the flag as thongs and bikinis, shoes, tshirts with various offensive slogans, sweat rags, towels, kleenax, cakes, sex toys, and toilet seats.

 

I have many folded flags in my home that came from the caskets of the relatives that served and I buried. Those individuals fought for liberty and freedom of speech, and opinions that some may not like, but that we each hold dear. Since the Revolutionary War my ancestors all fought for what is the essence of America and what it means to be one, not for a representative object. Each of them understood, that forced patriotism is no patriotism at all.

 

My husband has presided over many solemn POW, Veteran, and 9/11 ceremonies. As he is not a US citizen yet, he feels no compulsion to but his hand over his heart and stands quietly and respectfully silent. He finds it incredibly odd and disrespectful that if Americans place a high value on patriotism - that such a 'sacred' object would be branded on many things in such an offensive way and he would never expect a visitor to his country to honor any 'anthem' traditions either.

 

People protest in many ways. Kneeling has never offended me, and they have a right to behave in whatever idiotic manner they choose. You can choose to turn off the TV and do something else productive with your life. It is common for people in Baltimore to interrupt the national anthem at a particular point in fact since the 1970s. I have been to many a game in my time and have seen many an intoxicated person not even caring about the anthem and throwing their beer into the air. I have never once felt enraged. They do their thing, and I do mine.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

There's a difference between patriotism and jingoism, a difference between the drunk fan and the players on the team(s) one came to see. I took serious issue with the way people's genuine patriotism from 9/11 was turned into a GWB freedom fries fest of fervent, fraudulent patriotism I call jingoism -- and it was the neoconservatives (with help from the media) who largely pulled people into that fraudulent movement. Fitting where both of them are now. That is, of course, another issue.

 

More relevant here is where this stemmed from.. the NFL. The NFL was the springboard for this because they had a specific partnership with the US military, you know, back when goodwill was the extent of corporate activism, especially brands employing any "broad" strategy (opposed to differentiation, which many companies employing broad strategies clearly are catering to now, where they are trying to out-differentiate each other on who can bend the knee more).

 

I think the reference to the 60s and 70s was an apt one, because it was another moment where we saw left wing extremism take off, and while it took a while (I'm the type who tends to catch things early and has little patience, blame the ADHD) for people to get fed up enough of it, the establishment nourishment of it was nearly absent then, whereas it has more than enough financial support today to sustain along with media support helping fence people into an information bubble (which we see with coordinated messages that often get parroted, verbatim).

 

The glaring disparity can be seen in states like California just before I left. Waving a US flag was seen as racism, only white supremacists would do that! However, waving a Mexico flag was diversity, and encouraged! US bad, others good! To hell with that. It can also be seen in the sense of mindset seeing enforcement of laws.. burning US flag good, burning pride flag hate crime! Tearing down statues and defacing US monuments free expression.. painting over BLM road scrawlings hate crime! You get it yet? For whatever authoritarianism in the past came from conservatism, it was soundly rejected by liberalism, yet, many of the people who called themselves liberals now basically take a dump on anyone's rights of expression or speech, look for the oldest and dumbest methods of censoring others.. outrage. Does that apply here? Not in the slightest. I've yet to see a pampered NFL player fired for their selfish, polarizing kneeling idiocy. Rather, Kaepernick was blackballed because he lost whatever momentary mojo he had, was a marginal player (which is why he opted to use his platform in search of a new personal revenue stream), ever more obvious when he didn't have great players carrying him from the litany of bad QB decisions against good teams, and because his position requires team leadership and the guy was very clearly a self-promoting narcissist which doesn't play well on a team sport. His antics were merely icing on the cake.

 

Doesn't take a genius to understand the malice behind these actions, and while for political reasons people will zoom in on the issue, I think it gives more perspective to zoom out as people's political and historical memories tends to be conveniently short, and tend to distort things based on their preferred "team"/"party".

 

It doesn't take a GWB era superpatriot to see the idiocy and dangers of left wing violence, and the attacks on the United States, as I said, largely because the tactics used in the US so consistently mirror methods our own government used in foreign countries to destabilize and institute regime change in. It is funny to me in many ways to see Tucker and co saying these things 10-15 years late, when they were part of the problem before, but it really shows how sad things are that they are now the voice of reason miles beyond the media which is partaking in this destabilization. I didn't follow in the footsteps of my lineage (dad, grandfather, great grandfather) who served, but I'm afraid of where this winds up (e.g. civil war), and despite my turbulent relationship with the US, I believe strongly enough in it experiencing how things are done elsewhere to where if it comes to it, I serve my country.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[jeanieCZ 228]

2 hours ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

You told us that these divisions are reason enough to kneel.. except these divisions were sown and amplified by these people. So, no.

I have expressed my opinions. That is not the same as telling others how to think about sth. 

 

I believe one can be patriotic and love their country but at the same time recognize there are matters in said country that could be better. I feel (this is expressing a personal opinion, again) that if I were to express disagreement with what's wrong in my country by not standing for the flag but kneeling, which I perceive as an act of humility, I would actually feel the flag compells me to do so. Note that none of this involves political calculations, own interest, wiping one's butt with the flag or burning it, breaking into stores, tearing down statues, any aggression against anybody etc etc.

 

@Voice of Reason Have you lived outside of the US?

 

@yuna628 "As long as we're talking about respecting the flag, I'd assume that some of ya'll would get really angry and bring attention and awareness to the very awful practice of wearing the flag as thongs and bikinis, shoes, tshirts with various offensive slogans, sweat rags, towels, kleenax, cakes, sex toys, and toilet seats." 

Interesting point. I would like to know what @Voice of Reason and @Burnt Reynolds think about that. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by jeanieCZ