Should large people have to buy two airplane seats for themselves?

[Ron/Sharon 0]

I'm not a big person by anyones count and I voted no. I think the option to buy the ajoining seat is very much up to the individual, if I don't want to chance having a travel companion large enough to spill over onto me/my seat it should be up to me to purchase the other seat.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm not a big person by anyones count and I voted no. I think the option to buy the ajoining seat is very much up to the individual, if I don't want to chance having a travel companion large enough to spill over onto me/my seat it should be up to me to purchase the other seat.

But that would imply that its the responsibility of the inconvenienced, rather than the inconveniencer to be financially penalised for the inconvenience.

[Scott & Lai 12]

I'm not a big person by anyones count and I voted no. I think the option to buy the ajoining seat is very much up to the individual, if I don't want to chance having a travel companion large enough to spill over onto me/my seat it should be up to me to purchase the other seat.

But that would imply that its the responsibility of the inconvenienced, rather than the inconveniencer to be financially penalised for the inconvenience.

Yes. The reasoning behind the larger passenger paying for the adjoining seat is that they are taking part of that seat, which is not fair to a passenger who has purchased that seat, so is not getting what they paid for. Why should I have to pay for a seat I'm not using, in order to avoid not getting all of the seat I am using?

Edited June 27, 2007 by Scott & Lai

[aya*abouelnasr 0]

In my honest opinion it seems that there is a deeper issue on your mind other than an "obese" person spilling over into your seat. Because we are overweight, we should buy the other seat? I go along with the other idea. You don't want to take the chance that a "fatty" will be your seat mate? Then YOU buy the other seat, and there won't be any worries for you!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

In my honest opinion it seems that there is a deeper issue on your mind other than an "obese" person spilling over into your seat. Because we are overweight, we should buy the other seat? I go along with the other idea. You don't want to take the chance that a "fatty" will be your seat mate? Then YOU buy the other seat, and there won't be any worries for you!

I agree with Scot. I just don't see that it’s my responsibility to pay for the fact that another passenger can't fit into their assigned seat without impinging on the seat that I've already paid for. No "deeper issue" – you may not have noticed but to my knowledge few if any of my comments in this thread amount to a ‘value judgement’ on why a person looks or behaves the way they do. That isn’t the point at all – it’s that in some instances a person’s “situation” (whatever that may be) impacts negatively on the people around them.

That argument BTW – applies to other areas of life; and while we might make concessions in some instances for the sake of politeness (as some are doing in this thread); when you’re in a situation where there is literally no escape from it (like mass transit) I don’t think the same rules apply. Nor do I think that those people who are being courteous about this issue would necessarily be that way in that situation.

[Ron/Sharon 0]

Maybe so, maybe no.

For me it is a matter of choice, the inconvenienced can either pre-empt or live with Murphy’s law. Is it not each persons responsibility for their own welfare/wellbeing? Why should a larger passenger be responsible for my comfort. It is the responsibility of the inconvenienced to be financially penalized if they take action to not be inconvenienced, as it would be for the other to be financially penalized for not inconveniencing others.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Maybe so, maybe no.

For me it is a matter of choice, the inconvenienced can either pre-empt or live with Murphy’s law. Is it not each persons responsibility for their own welfare/wellbeing? Why should a larger passenger be responsible for my comfort. It is the responsibility of the inconvenienced to be financially penalized if they take action to not be inconvenienced, as it would be for the other to be financially penalized for not inconveniencing others.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander

As I said - people turn into complete b*stards on planes - and I don't doubt that your reasoning here would essentially be what it came down to - as it has in the past (hence I mentioned that experience about the guy with his seat back in my lap). But it would be the flight staff who would make the ultimate determination - there are health and safety issues associated with a passenger not being able to sit in their seat.

To go back to smoking - the law in several states requires smokers to go outside to indulge their habit, rather than impact the air quality people around them. It doesn't require the people who don't smoke to go outside for fresh air. The emphasis in law is usally on the person causing the disruption to others - not those being disrupted.

Edited June 27, 2007 by erekose

[Alex+R 0]

To go back to smoking - the law in several states requires smokers to go outside to indulge their habit, rather than impact the air quality people around them. It doesn't require the people who don't smoke to go outside for fresh air. The emphasis in law is usally on the person causing the disruption to others - not those being disrupted.

The law also emphasizes protecting minorities from discrimination. Not fitting in a plane seat really isn't a choice, where smoking is. And that's where I think your prejudice comes in to almost every post you make here.

After posting this, I remembered the time I flew Iceland Air in November. I am 5'5" and was about 148 pounds. A woman that size should be able to fit in a plane seat, and I don't think anyone could have accused me of being obese, although carrying around 10-15 extra pounds for my frame, yes. Yet, I could barely wedge myself into my plane seat. I had to sit in the aisle and cross my legs. I have very wide hips compared to my waist and carry a lot of my weight in my bottom half. It's not my fault; it's just the way the good lord made me. I didn't have some horrible twinkie habit that made it so I couldn't fit in the seat. I'm not a lazy person. But you're telling me my body shape is the same as being a smoker?

eta: I still don't think people should be forced to sit next to someone spilling into their seat. But I believe the responsibility in part lies in the airlines' hands.

Edited June 27, 2007 by Alex+R

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

To go back to smoking - the law in several states requires smokers to go outside to indulge their habit, rather than impact the air quality people around them. It doesn't require the people who don't smoke to go outside for fresh air. The emphasis in law is usally on the person causing the disruption to others - not those being disrupted.

The law also emphasizes protecting minorities from discrimination. Not fitting in a plane seat really isn't a choice, where smoking is. And that's where I think your prejudice comes in to almost every post you make here.

After posting this, I remembered the time I flew Iceland Air in November. I am 5'5" and was about 148 pounds. A woman that size should be able to fit in a plane seat, and I don't think anyone could have accused me of being obese, although carrying around 10-15 extra pounds for my frame, yes. Yet, I could barely wedge myself into my plane seat. I had to sit in the aisle and cross my legs. I have very wide hips compared to my waist and carry a lot of my weight in my bottom half. It's not my fault; it's just the way the good lord made me. I didn't have some horrible twinkie habit that made it so I couldn't fit in the seat. I'm not a lazy person. But you're telling me my body shape is the same as being a smoker?

eta: I still don't think people should be forced to sit next to someone spilling into their seat. But I believe the responsibility in part lies in the airlines' hands.

No I'm not- I'm addressing the argument (via another example) that it should somehow be on me to pay to not be inconvenienced. As I said to the other poster I made no comments on pertaining to 'why' a person looks the way they do - so I don't see where you're inferring that from.

And yes - the airlines have some responsibility to ensure that an 'average' person can fit into those seats, which are by necessity, one-size-fits-all. But they can only do so much - and while ideally the economy seats should ideally be a little roomier I cannot see a justification for them to go out of their way to accommodate a few extreme people.

[Scott & Lai 12]

Maybe so, maybe no.

For me it is a matter of choice, the inconvenienced can either pre-empt or live with Murphy’s law. Is it not each persons responsibility for their own welfare/wellbeing? Why should a larger passenger be responsible for my comfort. It is the responsibility of the inconvenienced to be financially penalized if they take action to not be inconvenienced, as it would be for the other to be financially penalized for not inconveniencing others.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander

As I said - people turn into complete b*stards on planes - and I don't doubt that your reasoning here would essentially be what it came down to - as it has in the past (hence I mentioned that experience about the guy with his seat back in my lap). But it would be the flight staff who would make the ultimate determination - there are health and safety issues associated with a passenger not being able to sit in their seat.

To go back to smoking - the law in several states requires smokers to go outside to indulge their habit, rather than impact the air quality people around them. It doesn't require the people who don't smoke to go outside for fresh air. The emphasis in law is usally on the person causing the disruption to others - not those being disrupted.

I just don't get the attitude of a person who says, "It's not my problem if I'm inconveniencing you. If you don't like it, that's your problem; sucks to be you."

As far as any "deeper issues" go, I've stated exactly where I find the problems to be; it has nothing to do with "prejudice" against "fatties". It is a simple matter of getting what I paid for, and not having to share it with someone who did not pay for it. If I am eating at McD's, and someone squishes part of my hamburger, is that my problem or that of the one who squished it? Should I have to buy two hamburgers to allow for the possibility that someone may squish one and deprive me of the full value of what I payed for?

The other problem is being forced to be in unwelcomed physical contact with a stranger throughout the flight, regardless of how much that person weighs.

Btw, I have to say that I find the fact that erekose and I are in agreement to be a bit disturbing

[Alex+R 0]

To go back to smoking - the law in several states requires smokers to go outside to indulge their habit, rather than impact the air quality people around them. It doesn't require the people who don't smoke to go outside for fresh air. The emphasis in law is usally on the person causing the disruption to others - not those being disrupted.

The law also emphasizes protecting minorities from discrimination. Not fitting in a plane seat really isn't a choice, where smoking is. And that's where I think your prejudice comes in to almost every post you make here.

After posting this, I remembered the time I flew Iceland Air in November. I am 5'5" and was about 148 pounds. A woman that size should be able to fit in a plane seat, and I don't think anyone could have accused me of being obese, although carrying around 10-15 extra pounds for my frame, yes. Yet, I could barely wedge myself into my plane seat. I had to sit in the aisle and cross my legs. I have very wide hips compared to my waist and carry a lot of my weight in my bottom half. It's not my fault; it's just the way the good lord made me. I didn't have some horrible twinkie habit that made it so I couldn't fit in the seat. I'm not a lazy person. But you're telling me my body shape is the same as being a smoker?

eta: I still don't think people should be forced to sit next to someone spilling into their seat. But I believe the responsibility in part lies in the airlines' hands.

No I'm not- I'm addressing the argument (via another example) that it should somehow be on me to pay to not be inconvenienced. As I said to the other poster I made no comments on pertaining to 'why' a person looks the way they do - so I don't see where you're inferring that from.

And yes - the airlines have some responsibility to ensure that an 'average' person can fit into those seats, which are by necessity, one-size-fits-all. But they can only do so much - and while ideally the economy seats should ideally be a little roomier I cannot see a justification for them to go out of their way to accommodate a few extreme people.

I can agree with that last sentence. However I think the only way one can form an opinion on the issue is by placing blame on someone. Who created the problem? They should be responsible. If you ate your way to 280 lbs., it's your fault then. Or: if you make airline seats smaller than the average American, that's your fault. To me, asking someone to buy 2 plane seats constitutes a little bit of discrimination because it automatically blames them--and subsequently punishes them--for their body size.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

To go back to smoking - the law in several states requires smokers to go outside to indulge their habit, rather than impact the air quality people around them. It doesn't require the people who don't smoke to go outside for fresh air. The emphasis in law is usally on the person causing the disruption to others - not those being disrupted.

The law also emphasizes protecting minorities from discrimination. Not fitting in a plane seat really isn't a choice, where smoking is. And that's where I think your prejudice comes in to almost every post you make here.

After posting this, I remembered the time I flew Iceland Air in November. I am 5'5" and was about 148 pounds. A woman that size should be able to fit in a plane seat, and I don't think anyone could have accused me of being obese, although carrying around 10-15 extra pounds for my frame, yes. Yet, I could barely wedge myself into my plane seat. I had to sit in the aisle and cross my legs. I have very wide hips compared to my waist and carry a lot of my weight in my bottom half. It's not my fault; it's just the way the good lord made me. I didn't have some horrible twinkie habit that made it so I couldn't fit in the seat. I'm not a lazy person. But you're telling me my body shape is the same as being a smoker?

eta: I still don't think people should be forced to sit next to someone spilling into their seat. But I believe the responsibility in part lies in the airlines' hands.

No I'm not- I'm addressing the argument (via another example) that it should somehow be on me to pay to not be inconvenienced. As I said to the other poster I made no comments on pertaining to 'why' a person looks the way they do - so I don't see where you're inferring that from.

And yes - the airlines have some responsibility to ensure that an 'average' person can fit into those seats, which are by necessity, one-size-fits-all. But they can only do so much - and while ideally the economy seats should ideally be a little roomier I cannot see a justification for them to go out of their way to accommodate a few extreme people.

I can agree with that last sentence. However I think the only way one can form an opinion on the issue is by placing blame on someone. Who created the problem? They should be responsible. If you ate your way to 280 lbs., it's your fault then. Or: if you make airline seats smaller than the average American, that's your fault. To me, asking someone to buy 2 plane seats constitutes a little bit of discrimination because it automatically blames them--and subsequently punishes them--for their body size.

I think when you're in or have been in that situation - you do tend to blame the people causing your inconvenience, whatever that may be.

We're also not talking about the 'average' American but the average world traveller.

[Alex+R 0]

I think when you're in or have been in that situation - you do tend to blame the people causing your inconvenience, whatever that may be.

We're also not talking about the 'average' American but the average world traveller.

I have been squished by a larger person before, and yes, I was mostly a little annoyed that we had to touch, but soon I felt bad for the guy, who was obviously embarrassed about it and apologized. But once we're out of the plane, regardless of how mad they made us in the plane, we can think rationally about it, right?

Aren't most flights Americans take domestic? Most Americans fly, but most also didn't own a passport before the new Canada/Mexico passport rules. Most of us aren't world travelers, but most of us do need to go to a funeral in Tulsa or a job interview in Boston.

[Jenn! 918]

What? Your average sized passenger should now have to buy 2 seats if they want to have the expectation of having an entire seat? That's just ludicrous. I can see disagreeing with the idea that the obese passenger should pay more, but come on.

I guess my question is what should my expectation be when I buy an airplane ticket. What exactly should the airline have to guarantee me? A smokefree environment? Yes. Complete silence so I can sleep? No. A full plane seat? I would think so.

Frankly, I don't care who absorbs the extra cost. If the airline does, then it will eventually be passed on to me, but what are you going to do really? Everyone is always paying a little bit more than they should here and a bit less than they should there.

Edited June 27, 2007 by jenn3539

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think when you're in or have been in that situation - you do tend to blame the people causing your inconvenience, whatever that may be.

We're also not talking about the 'average' American but the average world traveller.

I have been squished by a larger person before, and yes, I was mostly a little annoyed that we had to touch, but soon I felt bad for the guy, who was obviously embarrassed about it and apologized. But once we're out of the plane, regardless of how mad they made us in the plane, we can think rationally about it, right?

Aren't most flights Americans take domestic? Most Americans fly, but most also didn't own a passport before the new Canada/Mexico passport rules. Most of us aren't world travelers, but most of us do need to go to a funeral in Tulsa or a job interview in Boston.

The flights might be domestic but I doubt the planes are.