USCIS launches SAVE feature today

[Villanelle 4,121]

@USAjune2016

 

To be fair I never said I agree or disagree with any of the policies or distribution of taxes.  I was just trying to give you an idea of the complexity of the issue. The only thing I did offer my opinion on is that I believe if someone signed the 864 and benefits were taken they need to honor the contract they signed and repay it. Regardless if they agreed with it- they signed it. If they signed it under the impression that it would never be enforced that was poor judgment on their part.  

 

I don’t have any statistics to quote you.  I'm sure someone can dig some up but personally I don't think they matter much. Even if it is one dollar. Someone made a commitment to pay that dollar so they should pay it both legally and morally.

 

Historically the government has tried a few times to collect money owed by sponsors. It ended up costing more in collection efforts than what was recouped. Many times it was discussed that there was a need to set up a system so it's kind of nice to see they are actually trying to implement one.  

 

I am a bit confused now on where you stand on this issue.  You say most immigrants don't use welfare programs and are eager to work.  So for those this is a non issue. But for the ones that do need assistance- when they immigrated it was explained that the US has significant issues with Healthcare and being able to provide for its own citizens so if they relocate here the US is not going to be able to provide them with assistance. They either need to make it on their own or have someone who is willing to help them if they can not.  The immigrant, the sponsor, and the government all agreed on this.  The immigrant and the sponsor moved forward knowing this.  

 

You say you are ok with your taxes going to help someone in need. I think the majority of people would agree with you.  I also think a lot of people who struggle to make ends meet feel more welfare is needed.  But raising the poverty guidelines or making changes that otherwise increase the number of people eligible for assistance means more money will have to go to that fund. Very few people however are willing to pay more taxes for this though.  Ideally the government should be trying to fix the overall system as you explained the whole tax system is flawed, money is being spent improperly left and right. I can understand feeling frustrated- like why is their solution to come after immigrant sponsors? Isn't there a better target? But it's a poor argument.  It's basically acknowledging money is owed but trying to shame them into not collecting it. Suggesting they are being mean for doing it. That because there are bigger targets them focusing on a small one is offensive.  Maybe it is but it doesn't change the fact that the money is owed and should be collected regardless. 

 

Also from my understanding the SAVE program is going to be used to ensure sponsor information is being calculated when one applies for aid- which will mean less people will get aid incorrectly and for those that do get it correctly the government will be able to recover the money more efficiently.  It's a positive change for the welfare system in general. 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Villanelle

[USAjune2016 101]

5 hours ago, Villanelle said:

@USAjune2016

 

To be fair I never said I agree or disagree with any of the policies or distribution of taxes.  I was just trying to give you an idea of the complexity of the issue. The only thing I did offer my opinion on is that I believe if someone signed the 864 and benefits were taken they need to honor the contract they signed and repay it. Regardless if they agreed with it- they signed it. If they signed it under the impression that it would never be enforced that was poor judgment on their part.  

 

I don’t have any statistics to quote you.  I'm sure someone can dig some up but personally I don't think they matter much. Even if it is one dollar. Someone made a commitment to pay that dollar so they should pay it both legally and morally.

 

Historically the government has tried a few times to collect money owed by sponsors. It ended up costing more in collection efforts than what was recouped. Many times it was discussed that there was a need to set up a system so it's kind of nice to see they are actually trying to implement one.  

 

I am a bit confused now on where you stand on this issue.  You say most immigrants don't use welfare programs and are eager to work.  So for those this is a non issue. But for the ones that do need assistance- when they immigrated it was explained that the US has significant issues with Healthcare and being able to provide for its own citizens so if they relocate here the US is not going to be able to provide them with assistance. They either need to make it on their own or have someone who is willing to help them if they can not.  The immigrant, the sponsor, and the government all agreed on this.  The immigrant and the sponsor moved forward knowing this.  

 

You say you are ok with your taxes going to help someone in need. I think the majority of people would agree with you.  I also think a lot of people who struggle to make ends meet feel more welfare is needed.  But raising the poverty guidelines or making changes that otherwise increase the number of people eligible for assistance means more money will have to go to that fund. Very few people however are willing to pay more taxes for this though.  Ideally the government should be trying to fix the overall system as you explained the whole tax system is flawed, money is being spent improperly left and right. I can understand feeling frustrated- like why is their solution to come after immigrant sponsors? Isn't there a better target? But it's a poor argument.  It's basically acknowledging money is owed but trying to shame them into not collecting it. Suggesting they are being mean for doing it. That because there are bigger targets them focusing on a small one is offensive.  Maybe it is but it doesn't change the fact that the money is owed and should be collected regardless. 

 

Also from my understanding the SAVE program is going to be used to ensure sponsor information is being calculated when one applies for aid- which will mean less people will get aid incorrectly and for those that do get it correctly the government will be able to recover the money more efficiently.  It's a positive change for the welfare system in general. 

 

 

I’m glad to see that implementing SAVE made you finally so happy and so eager to defend it. Let’s hold US citizens sponsors accountable destroy their life and maybe add a death penalty to it if the amount is more than a couple thousand. This way when we financially destroy sponsors now they’re going to end-up costing the system way more than the few pennies their spouse or loved one needed. Please call your senator to express your support and maybe add a sign on your porch. 
 

[Divided States 33]

Previous administrations did not bother to enforce the rule, maybe because they found it too cruel and senseless to go after helpless immigrants and their families. Hate and cruelty play a main role under the current administration, the more hate and cruel, the more conservative votes.

[Villanelle 4,121]

I believe the enforcement falls on the local level. Every state gets a certain amount of federal funds and are required to use said funds in a specific way.  From my understanding they are not required to enforce the recovering- and yes, many states choose not to enforce due to the bad publicity it can bring. I believe CA is the only state that has publicly said they are not currently enforcing recovery nor ever plan to. All the other states are just silent on the matter. 

 

Im just struggling with the idea that it is some how 'cruel' to require people to honor a contract they signed willingly. Does the same apply to auto loans or mortgages? Should I be able to call up my car loan place and say - hey you know I am poor right? I am poor and disabled. How dare you ask me to give you money I promised to pay you! Its cruel to ask me to pay my debts.

 

Children are taught not to make promises they cant keep so they dont grow up into adults that sign contracts they cant honor.

[sl1pstream 551]

23 hours ago, geowrian said:

This thread is to relay the news and discuss it's impact on immigration. It's not for a discussion of the politics surrounding why it exists, what the political goals are, etc. That would fit into the Current Events forum whereas this is in the News forum.

Its impact on immigration is also political, it's impossible to talk about policies without going into politics because they're inherently political. It feels more like what people mean is "don't criticize bad policy" but since we're on an immigration forum where we all share the goal of immigrating to a country, I don't really see what's wrong with doing that, everyone currently still going through the system is experiencing the same frustrations and it just feels wrong to pretend that we're not. VJ portrays itself as a community for and of immigrants, I really don't see why we can't talk about this like adults. Clearly we all have the goal of moving to the US, I don't see why we can't criticize a country we clearly all like enough to move to.

Edited September 24, 2020 by sl1pstream

[USAjune2016 101]

2 hours ago, Villanelle said:

I believe the enforcement falls on the local level. Every state gets a certain amount of federal funds and are required to use said funds in a specific way.  From my understanding they are not required to enforce the recovering- and yes, many states choose not to enforce due to the bad publicity it can bring. I believe CA is the only state that has publicly said they are not currently enforcing recovery nor ever plan to. All the other states are just silent on the matter. 

 

Im just struggling with the idea that it is some how 'cruel' to require people to honor a contract they signed willingly. Does the same apply to auto loans or mortgages? Should I be able to call up my car loan place and say - hey you know I am poor right? I am poor and disabled. How dare you ask me to give you money I promised to pay you! Its cruel to ask me to pay my debts.

 

Children are taught not to make promises they cant keep so they dont grow up into adults that sign contracts they cant honor.

I didn’t know that someone should honor a contract they agreed too. I’m so glad you showed up in my life to enlighten me lol.

you reminded me of when I used to work remotely for a big company through a connected device and one day they suddenly sent me new terms and conditions for me to sign so I can keep doing my job, I was literally in the middle of a job and there was more

than 40 pages so I signed it anyway because I have to keep working. This doesn’t mean it’s a fair contract this means the big parties dominating the weaker once.. how about Amazon workers they’re always complaining, should we tell them If you don’t like your job leave it? Or we go and try to fix the situation? 
so many laws exist but they can’t be enforced anymore. You really don’t know that? 

[geowrian 22,337]

4 hours ago, sl1pstream said:

Its impact on immigration is also political, it's impossible to talk about policies without going into politics because they're inherently political. It feels more like what people mean is "don't criticize bad policy" but since we're on an immigration forum where we all share the goal of immigrating to a country, I don't really see what's wrong with doing that, everyone currently still going through the system is experiencing the same frustrations and it just feels wrong to pretend that we're not. VJ portrays itself as a community for and of immigrants, I really don't see why we can't talk about this like adults. Clearly we all have the goal of moving to the US, I don't see why we can't criticize a country we clearly all like enough to move to.

I don't see this topic as inherently political. It's only political if you view it through a political lens.

Whether they should or shouldn't enforce the I-864 is a political topic. News about a means for a way to track benefits so they can enforce it is just that - news. Unfortunately, the topics do get side-tracked into other, more broad topics, which are political. I think that was what was meant by avoiding bringing politics into the thread. If not, at least that's how I read it.

I don't see any hint of being told not to criticize bad policy. There is a forum where one can is encouraged to do so.

[TBoneTX 44,613]

Don't sign anything that you don't read thoroughly first.

---

Yes, political discussion belongs in the Current Events forum.

[USAjune2016 101]

6 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Don't sign anything that you don't read thoroughly first.

---

Yes, political discussion belongs in the Current Events forum.

Maybe you are a millionaire or you have a PHD and  you can find a new job by next day but in my case if my job asked me to sign I will sign anything because I need to pay my bills and buy my dinner.

Same for the I-864, people will sign anything to be with their loved once. It’s like food or bills and even more important. My spouse signed it with no questions even though I explained to her but she didn’t care about anything she wanted to be with me at all cost.

I’m personally  not going to be affected at all my parents can’t fly for 20 hours and I’m already married so if it’s true that most immigrants find this as an achievement and a good thing for them then let it be What can I do anyway I have zero power to negotiate but I do have a feeling that a lot of people fear to write what’s in their mind freely especially with an application pending approval. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by USAjune2016

[Villanelle 4,121]

13 hours ago, USAjune2016 said:

 

Same for the I-864, people will sign anything to be with their loved once. It’s like food or bills and even more important. My spouse signed it with no questions even though I explained to her but she didn’t care about anything she wanted to be with me at all cost.

 

So 'she' signs it at any cost and then when its time to pay ....? what happens? she looks at it harder and decides the 'costs' were too much and are unfair. So we should just collectively tear it up. Im sure you are familiar with the story of Rumpelstiltskin. People need to take responsibilities for their mistakes. If you sign something with out reading it or understanding it, or you agree to something that is unfair- you still need to honor your end of the agreement. This isnt about whether or not there should be an 864. There is an 864. People signed them promising to pay if specific benefits were used. The benefits were used. The people need to now pay it back.