The Secret Campaign of President Bush's Administration To Deny Global Warming

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Cheney has declared Executive Privelige on his energy policy. Nobody else gets input

Crucial point - especially in regard to that other thread.

That isn't the point. Of course the oil industry is going to do things in their best interest. What is wrong with that? But to ignore the oil industry when forming an energy policy is insane! They are the ones that are experts on the subject. I don't think they should be allowed to run the whole show but their input is important. As far as Man made GW is concerned, I think you know my position on that.

They are running the show Gary....

[Portlander 0]

Gary - you said "anti-capatalist". The oil companies actively fix prices via OPEC. Is this "capitalist" or not?

If a business can buy politicians to legislate favorable policy, is this "capatalist"? or not.

I just want to be clear on what capitalism means.

[mawilson 2,133]

global warming is not a global debate....

Global warming is real, there's not much dispute about that.

The debate is about whether or not we (humans) are causing it.

[GaryC 7]

Gary - you said "anti-capatalist". The oil companies actively fix prices via OPEC. Is this "capitalist" or not?

If a business can buy politicians to legislate favorable policy, is this "capatalist"? or not.

I just want to be clear on what capitalism means.

Your misinformed. Oil companies can't fix prices worldwide. OPEC does that. Please provide a link to support that.

Here is the real power behind the oil industry. Your views merely show your leanings in favor of conspiracy theory.

The Real Culprit Behind Price-Gouging: OPEC

by Ariel Cohen and William L T Schirano

WebMemo #1102

With the summer driving season now upon us, no one expects a break in the price of gas at the pump. The realities of supply and demand, however, have not stopped some in Congress from seeking a quick fix to the complex problem of high fuel prices.

Recently, in a rare display of bipartisan cooperation, members of Congress pinned the rise of gas prices on “big oil” price-gouging, blaming American oil companies. Yet, a recent investigation by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) found that claims of price-gouging had less to do with “Big Oil” than they did with “regional or local market trends.”[1]

While Congress spends its time chasing this “white whale,” state-owned oil companies that make up the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC), and control 80 percent of the world’s oil reserves, continue to gouge the American consumer through a series of monopolistic practices. This week, OPEC is expected to announce that it will maintain its current output level—a decision that will do little to ease oil prices that have reached more than $70 a barrel.[2] If Congress is serious about alleviating the price-gouging that contributes to high gas prices, it ought to begin by allowing the federal government to sue OPEC.

At a time when oil prices are climbing to ever-higher levels, this measure would be a welcome first step towards reestablishing the free market in this strategically important sector. Indeed, this move is long overdue and points the way to a second, more important step: allowing private antitrust suits against OPEC.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Energyand...ment/wm1102.cfm

[poppscc 0]

I'de be interested in a rebuttle of the information I posted and opinions. I'm looking at the big picture here.

You would, would you? Suggest you get in line - I've got a bunch of unaddressed points that noone has touched.

which points would you like addressed? I went back and briefly checked out this thread, and it was more of a link exchange than anything else.

I only had 2 simple points that I can turn into questions:

Warming is occuring on other planets, so why is man pinned on earth?

what should we do about cows for contributing more towards GW?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'de be interested in a rebuttle of the information I posted and opinions. I'm looking at the big picture here.

You would, would you? Suggest you get in line - I've got a bunch of unaddressed points that noone has touched.

which points would you like addressed? I went back and briefly checked out this thread, and it was more of a link exchange than anything else.

I only had 2 simple points that I can turn into questions:

Warming is occuring on other planets, so why is man pinned on earth?

what should we do about cows for contributing more towards GW?

The article is about government energy policy being dictated by a bunch of ex-lobbyists under the control of a guy who doesn't see himself bound by the remit of the executive branch of government. To achieve their aims - they have and are actively suppressing GW research and sowing disinformation to create doubt in the public mind.

You mentioned that this whole thing is a political play by the elites - which elites would you be referring to? The only elites I see (of the sort who routinely bankroll presidential election campaigns), are already running the show - setting natioanl energy policy behind closed doors and actively disregarding, discrediting or politically assassinating (any) environmental concern that threatens their business.

[GaryC 7]

I'de be interested in a rebuttle of the information I posted and opinions. I'm looking at the big picture here.

You would, would you? Suggest you get in line - I've got a bunch of unaddressed points that noone has touched.

which points would you like addressed? I went back and briefly checked out this thread, and it was more of a link exchange than anything else.

I only had 2 simple points that I can turn into questions:

Warming is occuring on other planets, so why is man pinned on earth?

what should we do about cows for contributing more towards GW?

The article is about government energy policy being dictated by a bunch of ex-lobbyists under the control of a guy who doesn't see himself bound by the remit of the executive branch of government. To achieve their aims - they have and are actively suppressing GW research and sowing disinformation to create doubt in the public mind.

You mentioned that this whole thing is a political play by the elites - which elites would you be referring to? The only elites I see (of the sort who routinely bankroll presidential election campaigns), are already running the show - setting natioanl energy policy behind closed doors and actively disregarding, discrediting or politically assassinating (any) environmental concern that threatens their business.

It's a battle of the elites. The left elites (pro-man-made GW, anti capitalist) and the right elites (anti-man-made GW, pro capitalist). Caught in the middle is the regular guy. If the left wins we will have our energy policy turned upside down in an attempt to reduce carbon. If the right wins then the status quo will prevail. Since I firmly believe that man-made GW is a farce then I come down on the right side. Instead of arguing about GW and who is at fault we should instead prepare for the inevitable outcomes of a warming planet.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It's a battle of the elites. The left elites (pro-man-made GW, anti capitalist) and the right elites (anti-man-made GW, pro capitalist). Caught in the middle is the regular guy. If the left wins we will have our energy policy turned upside down in an attempt to reduce carbon. If the right wins then the status quo will prevail. Since I firmly believe that man-made GW is a farce then I come down on the right side. Instead of arguing about GW and who is at fault we should instead prepare for the inevitable outcomes of a warming planet.

Specifically, which "Left anti-capitalist elites" would you be talking about - and how exactly do they have as much or more power and influence than the people who are for all intents and purposes already dictating the government's without any regard for environmental considerations?

It seems to me not unlike the accusations made against 'liberal' college professors - mystically those people with the least power and influence are apparently the ones to blame for the mistakes of the people who do.

Edited June 25, 2007 by erekose

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

in all of this about global warming, i just have to wonder something. those in the northern states, have they really considered what additional regulation and such will add to their heating bills?

eta: just remember when you're shaking like a leaf in a hurricane during the winter that you mighta been all for this stuff.

Edited June 25, 2007 by charlesandnessa

[Alex+R 0]

in all of this about global warming, i just have to wonder something. those in the northern states, have they really considered what additional regulation and such will add to their heating bills?

eta: just remember when you're shaking like a leaf in a hurricane during the winter that you mighta been all for this stuff.

Ah, the old, "you're killing cold little old ladies with your belief in global warming" argument.

Charles, for the average person who can afford heat, who you are addressing, let's hope most people aren't as self-centered as, uh, some of us here, and can see the big picture.

Gary, what "anti-capitalist elite"? You do realize that's a hilarious impossible group of people that you've been brainwashed to think exist, don't you?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Gary, what "anti-capitalist elite"? You do realize that's a hilarious impossible group of people that you've been brainwashed to think exist, don't you?

Big business has always had the ear of government - at least its not me who finds it extremely questionable that those people who are not part of that dynamic are somehow to blame for the activities of those who are...

Edited June 25, 2007 by erekose

[GaryC 7]

in all of this about global warming, i just have to wonder something. those in the northern states, have they really considered what additional regulation and such will add to their heating bills?

eta: just remember when you're shaking like a leaf in a hurricane during the winter that you mighta been all for this stuff.

Gary, what "anti-capitalist elite"? You do realize that's a hilarious impossible group of people that you've been brainwashed to think exist, don't you?

Its the elites that blame big business for everything. They blame big oil for GW, they blame big auto and big industry for outsourcing, big Wallmart for destroying the little guy and small business, big drug for drugs that people can't afford, ect, ect,ect... The lefts response to everything is to regulate, tax and blame. That is anti-capitalist. Without all these business's we wouldn't have the way of life we have today. It seems that they want to destroy the very thing that we have to thank for our way of life.

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

in all of this about global warming, i just have to wonder something. those in the northern states, have they really considered what additional regulation and such will add to their heating bills?

eta: just remember when you're shaking like a leaf in a hurricane during the winter that you mighta been all for this stuff.

Ah, the old, "you're killing cold little old ladies with your belief in global warming" argument.

Charles, for the average person who can afford heat, who you are addressing, let's hope most people aren't as self-centered as, uh, some of us here, and can see the big picture.

as nyc is colder than kansas, enjoy

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Its the elites that blame big business for everything. They blame big oil for GW, they blame big auto and big industry for outsourcing, big Wallmart for destroying the little guy and small business, big drug for drugs that people can't afford, ect, ect,ect... The lefts response to everything is to regulate, tax and blame. That is anti-capitalist. Without all these business's we wouldn't have the way of life we have today. It seems that they want to destroy the very thing that we have to thank for our way of life.

Perhaps I asked the wrong question Specifically WHO are these elites? Name a few - then tell me specifically what power/s they have to effect a massive change on government policy in a manner that equals or exceeds the influence that high-paid corporate lobbyists and corporate campaign donations can bring to bear.

[GaryC 7]

Its the elites that blame big business for everything. They blame big oil for GW, they blame big auto and big industry for outsourcing, big Wallmart for destroying the little guy and small business, big drug for drugs that people can't afford, ect, ect,ect... The lefts response to everything is to regulate, tax and blame. That is anti-capitalist. Without all these business's we wouldn't have the way of life we have today. It seems that they want to destroy the very thing that we have to thank for our way of life.

Perhaps I asked the wrong question Specifically WHO are these elites? Name a few - then tell me specifically what power/s they have to effect a massive change on government policy in a manner that equals or exceeds the influence that high-paid corporate lobbyists and corporate campaign donations can bring to bear.

Pick about any Dem congressperson. For example: Hillary Clinton once said in a speech that she wanted to take the profits from "big oil" and use it for alternative fuels. If that isn't anti-capitalist then nothing is.