The Secret Campaign of President Bush's Administration To Deny Global Warming

[GaryC 7]

Now GW is the worms fault.

Scientist Implicates Worms in Global Warming

Jim Frederickson, the research director at the Composting Association has called for data on worms and composting to be re-examined after a German study found that worms produce greenhouse gases 290 times more potent than carbon dioxide.

Worms are being used commercially to compost organic material and is in preference to putting it into the landfill. The German government wants 45% of all waste to be composted by 2015.

"Everybody... thinks they can do no harm but they contribute to global warming. People are looking into alternative waste treatments but we have to make sure that we are not jumping from the frying pan into the fire," said Frederickson.

http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=63227

[Portlander 0]

The goal of the pro-global warming types is to marginalize anyone with an opposing view and ultimately silence them.

Tin foil hat time. There is a major world conspiracy to create the myth of global warming, and evry single respeced scientific body is in on it.

Exxon linked to climate change pay out

Think tank offers scientists $10,000 to criticize UN study confirming global warming and placing blame on humans.

By Steve Hargreaves, CNNMoney.com staff writer

February 5 2007: 2:02 PM EST

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- A think tank partly funded by Exxon Mobil sent letters to scientists offering them up to $10,000 to critique findings in a major global warming study released Friday which found that global warming was real and likely caused by burning fossil fuels.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/02/news/compa.../exxon_science/

That guy in your last post just made $10,000.

Edited June 25, 2007 by Portlander

[GaryC 7]

The goal of the pro-global warming types is to marginalize anyone with an opposing view and ultimately silence them.

Tin foil hat time. There is a major world conspiracy to create the myth of global warming, and evry single respeced scientific body is in on it.

Oh your a good one to accuse people of being the tin foil hat type. Judging from your other posts you were born with a tin foil hat.

[Portlander 0]

You just accused the world of conspiring to make people believe the myth of Global Warming, and to squelch any opposing view. Do you have any idea how much effort and wrangling that would take? Scientists, like the intelligence community, are known for being individualistic and fiercely defend the process.

On the other hand, I am saying that groups of people actually follow the agenda they lay out in their policy papers. This often directly contradicts what they put in their speeches, but their ACTIONS directly and consistently reflect their policy papers. Thats hardly tin foil hats.

Exxon really is offering 10K to anyone publishing articles tat question global warming. And they stand to lose billions of dollars if we stop using petroleum. Petrol companies have bought up the patents to fuel efficient engines to shelve them, and bought up public transportation systems to dismantle them. The knew that tetra-lead ethlyne was a potent neurotoxin before they ever put it in gasoline. but the discovered a buck as to be made, so they sold us what they knew was bad for us. They sold it to the Nazis as well, while we were at war.

They don't care about anything but making a profit. That is Adam Smith 101. IT should not be surprising, and certainly not "tin foil hat" time.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The goal of the pro-global warming types is to marginalize anyone with an opposing view and ultimately silence them.

Tin foil hat time. There is a major world conspiracy to create the myth of global warming, and evry single respeced scientific body is in on it.

Oh your a good one to accuse people of being the tin foil hat type. Judging from your other posts you were born with a tin foil hat.

Per Mags previous request - please tone down the insults; otherwise this thread will no doubt get locked.

So far noone has addressed BTW - the OP article in any significant way. That has little to do with the science and everything to do with the fact that Bushco have appointed former "Big Oil" lobbyists to key positions with a direct hand in determining the country's energy policy.

As I said its weird to me how some here claim this whole GW to be some sort of huge anti-capitalist conspiracy, in much the same way as that tired old hackery about "liberal college professors destroying the country". Again - its absolutely bizarre that the people with the least power and influence in govt to effect changes are the ones who are being blamed for doing precisely that.

Edited June 25, 2007 by erekose

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Seems like this whole global warming debate is about politics and not about reality. It's about partisan politics designed to drive conservatives and liberals apart, much like the stem cell balony the democrats are pushing.

in reality, al gore is a resource hog, and George W bush is the opposite:

Interesting theory with one small flaw. The global warming debate is a 'global' debate that is not restricted solely to the USA. So as far as partisan Rep Vs. Dem politics - undoubtedly a bit of that is going in the US, but to rubbish the entire GW debate on the basis of a US-centric world view is somewhat disingenuous IMO.

Edited June 25, 2007 by erekose

[Alex+R 0]

Seems like this whole global warming debate is about politics and not about reality. It's about partisan politics designed to drive conservatives and liberals apart, much like the stem cell balony the democrats are pushing.

in reality, al gore is a resource hog, and George W bush is the opposite:

Interesting theory with one small flaw. The global warming debate is a 'global' debate that is not restricted solely to the USA. So as far as partisan Rep Vs. Dem politics - undoubtedly a bit of that is going in the US, but to rubbish the entire GW debate on the basis of a US-centric world view is somewhat disingenuous IMO.

Is there really a debate in any other country? I thought everywhere else was willing to understand what a scientific consensus was.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Seems like this whole global warming debate is about politics and not about reality. It's about partisan politics designed to drive conservatives and liberals apart, much like the stem cell balony the democrats are pushing.

in reality, al gore is a resource hog, and George W bush is the opposite:

Interesting theory with one small flaw. The global warming debate is a 'global' debate that is not restricted solely to the USA. So as far as partisan Rep Vs. Dem politics - undoubtedly a bit of that is going in the US, but to rubbish the entire GW debate on the basis of a US-centric world view is somewhat disingenuous IMO.

Is there really a debate in any other country? I thought everywhere else was willing to understand what a scientific consensus was.

True enough. But the idea that the whole thing is a conspiracy for the benefit of partisan hacks - would seem to imply that people outside of the US care about the squabbling between Republicans and Democrats.

[GaryC 7]

So far noone has addressed BTW - the OP article in any significant way. That has little to do with the science and everything to do with the fact that Bushco have appointed former "Big Oil" lobbyists to key positions with a direct hand in determining the country's energy policy.

Ok, who would you ask input from in regards to energy policy? A botanist? If you want input about energy then you ask someone that has experience in that. To dismiss out of hand anything someone from the oil industry says is amazing! I find it incredible that the left has managed to make the oil companies into the great satan. They are just a company that provides a service that everyone wants. Just because they are successful they have been made out to some sort of a huge agent of conspiracy. They do the same thing with any other company that makes it big. Big drugs, big oil, big auto, Walmart, on and on and on. It gets old. Without these industries we wouldn't have a country like we do today. After a while you have to admit that the left is anti-capitalist.

[Alex+R 0]

True enough. But the idea that the whole thing is a conspiracy for the benefit of partisan hacks - would seem to imply that people outside of the US care about the squabbling between Republicans and Democrats.

Right, that part is a bit silly.

So far noone has addressed BTW - the OP article in any significant way. That has little to do with the science and everything to do with the fact that Bushco have appointed former "Big Oil" lobbyists to key positions with a direct hand in determining the country's energy policy.

Ok, who would you ask input from in regards to energy policy? A botanist? If you want input about energy then you ask someone that has experience in that. To dismiss out of hand anything someone from the oil industry says is amazing! I find it incredible that the left has managed to make the oil companies into the great satan. They are just a company that provides a service that everyone wants. Just because they are successful they have been made out to some sort of a huge agent of conspiracy. They do the same thing with any other company that makes it big. Big drugs, big oil, big auto, Walmart, on and on and on. It gets old. Without these industries we wouldn't have a country like we do today. After a while you have to admit that the left is anti-capitalist.

Gary, just answer me one question: Do you think it would be in the best interest of the oil industry to fund its own scientists to prove global warming exists, or to deny global warming exists? Which one better serves its interests?

[poppscc 0]

Seems like this whole global warming debate is about politics and not about reality. It's about partisan politics designed to drive conservatives and liberals apart, much like the stem cell balony the democrats are pushing.

in reality, al gore is a resource hog, and George W bush is the opposite:

Interesting theory with one small flaw. The global warming debate is a 'global' debate that is not restricted solely to the USA. So as far as partisan Rep Vs. Dem politics - undoubtedly a bit of that is going in the US, but to rubbish the entire GW debate on the basis of a US-centric world view is somewhat disingenuous IMO.

global warming is not a global debate.... people have already changed policies over global warming. it's a money making scheme pushed by the elites.

I'de be interested in a rebuttle of the information I posted and opinions. I'm looking at the big picture here.

btw, I dont see the big issue with the oil companies pay for anti mmgw scientists... How is that any different from the UN and it's pro-mmgw funding? it's no different.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So far noone has addressed BTW - the OP article in any significant way. That has little to do with the science and everything to do with the fact that Bushco have appointed former "Big Oil" lobbyists to key positions with a direct hand in determining the country's energy policy.

Ok, who would you ask input from in regards to energy policy? A botanist? If you want input about energy then you ask someone that has experience in that. To dismiss out of hand anything someone from the oil industry says is amazing! I find it incredible that the left has managed to make the oil companies into the great satan. They are just a company that provides a service that everyone wants. Just because they are successful they have been made out to some sort of a huge agent of conspiracy. They do the same thing with any other company that makes it big. Big drugs, big oil, big auto, Walmart, on and on and on. It gets old. Without these industries we wouldn't have a country like we do today. After a while you have to admit that the left is anti-capitalist.

Gary as you admitted to not having read the article in its entirety (I even posted bits of it for you with googled names of the people involved) perhaps you could suspend you bashing of me and my views until you do....?

If you had read it you might notice that the criticism of those lobbyists is not restricted to who they are - but what they have actually done in office. Including but not limited to - revising the wording of scientific reports against the objections of the scientists involved, trumping up discredited research, firing the scientists who involved with and/or support the IPCC reports; and implementing green-sounding policies like "Clear Skies" (which bizarrely removes air pollution controls) and the "Healthy Forests Initiative" (which permits wholesale logging) which are anything but 'green'.

Unless you want to start calling me names - as you did to Portlander. I'd sooner we have a reasoned debate.

[Portlander 0]

So far noone has addressed BTW - the OP article in any significant way. That has little to do with the science and everything to do with the fact that Bushco have appointed former "Big Oil" lobbyists to key positions with a direct hand in determining the country's energy policy.

Ok, who would you ask input from in regards to energy policy? A botanist? If you want input about energy then you ask someone that has experience in that. To dismiss out of hand anything someone from the oil industry says is amazing! I find it incredible that the left has managed to make the oil companies into the great satan. They are just a company that provides a service that everyone wants. Just because they are successful they have been made out to some sort of a huge agent of conspiracy. They do the same thing with any other company that makes it big. Big drugs, big oil, big auto, Walmart, on and on and on. It gets old. Without these industries we wouldn't have a country like we do today. After a while you have to admit that the left is anti-capitalist.

Certainly, you would ask energy companies, but you would also ask scientists, ask for general input from the citizens, ask for input by the people who work in the energy companies - the people on the ground who directly deal with energy - not just representatives of the CEOs.

THere is a major difference between not accepting input from oil companies at all and accepting ONLY input from the Oil Companies. Cheney has declared Executive Privelige on his energy policy. Nobody else gets input

Just because they are successful they have been made out to some sort of a huge agent of conspiracy

No, this is 100% incorrect. They act to preserve their bottom line. It has nothing to do with how successful they are. It has to do with their actions. Judge thnings based on what happens, not what you want them to be, Gary.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'de be interested in a rebuttle of the information I posted and opinions. I'm looking at the big picture here.

You would, would you? Suggest you get in line - I've got a bunch of unaddressed points that noone has touched.

[GaryC 7]

Gary, just answer me one question: Do you think it would be in the best interest of the oil industry to fund its own scientists to prove global warming exists, or to deny global warming exists? Which one better serves its interests?

That isn't the point. Of course the oil industry is going to do things in their best interest. What is wrong with that? But to ignore the oil industry when forming an energy policy is insane! They are the ones that are experts on the subject. I don't think they should be allowed to run the whole show but their input is important. As far as Man made GW is concerned, I think you know my position on that.