Offical MENA Cultural Differences Thread

[amrssnowangel 0]

Adding to the idea of "lowering the gaze" I think alot has to do with 1) Respect 2) Covering is so the woman doesn't draw the attention with her body. But when a man lowers his gaze (as does a woman) she is doing more to avoid the temptation of looking, especially at those not covered properly. It also deals with Chastity and over all modesty which is much more than just how one dresses. I started to cover here in the States 6 months ago, and I love it. I find I get MORE respect from people I deal with. I actually find it HARD to look directly at someone when covered and I feel like im no one else's right but my husbands.

[doodlebug 3]

He turns away to at some scenes if they are kissing and getting intimate but CLOTHED!!! What a man. Gotta LOVE that.

Well, I would have a really hard time with that. But that's why there's someone for everyone!

So much for watchin' da porn together!

[a1angied 0]

Ok I have to add as i was talking to my husband and he said that satalite has brought much to light, yes porn to the MENA, I made a joke and said yeah they are all in English that is why he speaks it so very well. He laughed and said no honey. I knew how to speak before I see this. He said they men they won't talk about it to women as they don't want to make shame for themselves. I ask him many things and he tells me they don't really know for some things and others he agrees with.

[Henia 11]

I just remembered something Moh and I had discussed last week. He commented on how here in the US we act respectfully and polite to ppl who "serve" us..meaning cashiers, ppl who work in grocery stores, etc. He said in Egypt ppl tend to be somewhat rude to those types of ppl. We discussed how here in the US ppl are usually not judged by how much money they have or what their social status it...for the most part. But in Egypt there is definitely a difference in treatment depending on these things.

I found this to be true in some ME places I have been to. But Algerie, surprisly people treat "service" pretty well. But then again most Algerians have some type of small service business... so that could be it.

[deemabrouk 0]

My husband doesnt think he will be surprised with the dressing here.. BUT even when I come back from egypt and see all the cottage cheese thighs.. and cleavage hanging out like No Body's Business.. even I am taken back! And the females that would make him suck his teeth and shake his head.. well.. It's NOTHING compared to here!!!!!!!

But alhamdulillah .. it is nice to finally have a man that i DONT have to smack upside the head for eye trailing some sharmootah walking by!!

Edited July 5, 2007 by deemabrouk

[doodlebug 3]

My husband doesnt think he will be surprised with the dressing here.. BUT even when I come back from egypt and see all the cottage cheese thighs.. and cleavage hanging out like No Body's Business.. even I am taken back! And the females that would make him suck his teeth and shake his head.. well.. It's NOTHING compared to here!!!!!!!

But alhamdulillah .. it is nice to finally have a man that i DONT have to smack upside the head for eye trailing some sharmootah walking by!!

roflmao at the "sucking his teeth" comment. Usama does that all the time to me. lol I"m always like, "wha....do you need some dental floss or something?"

[Henia 11]

I forgot to add...I went to a lecture once where the women were on one side and the men were on the other and when one of the men went up to lecture I thought it odd that when a woman asked a question he looked at the men. He NEVER looked at us even once. I mentioned that I thought he was being rude to a few and they said it's how he is and that his deen is at such a level that he does not look at women that are non-mahrem.

I wouldn't say that about my husband's deen so I dunno what that's all about either, i.e. where it stems from.

This is what I don't understand. The whole point of hijab (modest dress fo rmen and women) is so that both can freely interact in society. This whole no eye contact is cultural. Not judgin it, but just saying you can't use Islam to justify it.

Yes, of course there will always be men and women out there who take words literally and in my humble opinion way too literally and make their lives much harder then needed. It all comes down to your Islamic prespective. Hey that is word we all know well here in MENA. What is right for me, may not be right for you.

Of course the hijeb ( and more so the niqaab) is there to make the barrier between non-mahram men and women greater, and really apply the women to be viewed as a human, not any sexual object. Again here comes that word prespective. Even with hijeb, a women may still be desirable to any men. Let's face that fact. And Allah did not only say "hey you women cover up so men will not find you enticing." No. Allah(swt) said also for the men, to not stare and not let the Sheitan into their hearts. So really this is a mercy for many women. Maybe not for us, here in the US... but for many women elsewhere who face dishonour, rape and worst for these rampant desires.

And MBP you can use Islam to justify it read the ayats in Surat al- Nur MBP. "There is nothing left after I go more dangerous to men than the temptations of women." [Al-Bukhaari] Also describes it well.

Anyway, my personal opinion is that you should adjust yourself to different situation and people. And all men should look to all women (other then their wives) like they would a mother or sister. And that is my humble opinion.

Henia, I htink you express the behavior much better than I do and I certainly think we (as westerners) should not take offense because of cultural behavior.

The problem I have getting my head around is because of the language barrier. Sure if you read modern standard arabic you can read the classicall arabic of the Quran, but it is not that easy to understand. Lower your gaze can be interpreted many different ways. As Islam spread in to countries after the death of the prophet, those people adapted much of their long standing cultural behavior to fit under Islam. These cultural expressions maybe acceptable under Islam but thay arer not mandated by Islam.

I hope that makes sense

Yes, Jenn it does make alot of sense actually. And true Islam was more waidely spread after the death of the Pr.Mohammed (saw), in turn many pre-Islamic traditions (that were clearly not condemned in the Qurán remained) then add few hundred years later as more and more cultures were added to the Islamic pot, more slight variations were added. Do we all remember that word bid'a? innovation within the religion. Small Islamic lesson for everyone! And there are many forms of bid'ah both good and bad. But anyway, back to lowering the gaze, it is just basically the same as the idea of hijeb (the inner hijeb...curtain barrier) that is there to preserve the imen, honour and just part of good Islamic manners. And like, I said before many do take this literally.

But anyway it would be pointless for me to just repeat all what I said before so... I go on to the next post. LOL

[Henia 11]

I forgot to add...I went to a lecture once where the women were on one side and the men were on the other and when one of the men went up to lecture I thought it odd that when a woman asked a question he looked at the men. He NEVER looked at us even once. I mentioned that I thought he was being rude to a few and they said it's how he is and that his deen is at such a level that he does not look at women that are non-mahrem.

I wouldn't say that about my husband's deen so I dunno what that's all about either, i.e. where it stems from.

That is stems from the Surat that says: "Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.). That is purer for them. Verily, Allâh is All-Aware of what they do." Qur'an - Surat 24:30 So in essence men all over MENA, so more in ME then NA generally do not look at strange women, and for the religious this goes even beyond that a step furthernot looking directly at the eyes or or looking slightly up when speaking up. This is sign of great honour and piety. I would not be offended at all. And as we all know MENA men have that great honour to protect. Believe me, I have seen many a fights over just a glance.

But not to say everyone follows this rule. I know mostly only the religious follow this in NA, where male-female interaction is more liberal. I know my ex looked everyone in the eye, while most of his brothers did not. My husband now, of course looks everyone in the eye, bu the does have several religious family members who look non-mahram women in the eye

the Imam at my mosque is all about the woman being involved.. and giving the sisters his attention.. SO.. sometimes he will come into the sisters room and talk to us... BUT the entired time he looks at the ground.. or and any toddler that waddles over to him.. And me.. I stare at the floor too..... It is Respect..

soon they will have to replace the carpets from all the burn holes

and if my husband changes his ways... I'll kick his A$$!!!!!!!!!! Islam comes before the American way........

All this reminds of me a very funny story of my iLs. Years back, when my iLs first got a TV, the women would literally wear their hijebs in the house and be so afraid to look at the man (newscaster) in the TV thinking he was looking at them. LOL!

Also I would like to add, I see more men lowering their eyes, then women in Algerie. The women, I feel have much more freedom to look and stare then the men do. LOL

[Henia 11]

I forgot to add...I went to a lecture once where the women were on one side and the men were on the other and when one of the men went up to lecture I thought it odd that when a woman asked a question he looked at the men. He NEVER looked at us even once. I mentioned that I thought he was being rude to a few and they said it's how he is and that his deen is at such a level that he does not look at women that are non-mahrem.

I wouldn't say that about my husband's deen so I dunno what that's all about either, i.e. where it stems from.

My guy is just shy to be honest. AND not long after we met he made the comment that his wife is his only "right" to look at and touch. He is a great guy with great morals. But for not looking me in the eye...lol...well..I think part of that was his initial shyness..which he has now lost. Alhamdolellah. He doesn't watch TV shows or Movies if he knows it may have not well dressed people. I took a DVD over..."what about schmidt" Theres ONE SMALL part where she gets in the hottub and u can't really see much but her upper chest...he turned it off and fast forwarded it. He turns away to at some scenes if they are kissing and getting intimate but CLOTHED!!! What a man. Gotta LOVE that.

LOL my husband will not have any shows on with any women, even with tight clothes let alone naked or half-naked while other people are around. He also used to switch the channel if some any women came on that resembled Haifa or her likeness, until I told him "hey chill" I sometimes, think they do look, just feel shy to have others know it. And I am sorry to say, this may be in poor taste but many times these video clips of singers are the closest thing to sexual content MENA men have. (Well probably pre-Internet was more true LOL)

[Henia 11]

Adding to the idea of "lowering the gaze" I think alot has to do with 1) Respect 2) Covering is so the woman doesn't draw the attention with her body. But when a man lowers his gaze (as does a woman) she is doing more to avoid the temptation of looking, especially at those not covered properly. It also deals with Chastity and over all modesty which is much more than just how one dresses. I started to cover here in the States 6 months ago, and I love it. I find I get MORE respect from people I deal with. I actually find it HARD to look directly at someone when covered and I feel like im no one else's right but my husbands.

You nailed it Snowangel!!! And beeeeeeeeeeeelieve meeee, MENA men spoil their women, when they know they have their honour and trust secured! It is a real male ego thing. The "idea of possession" And please note I said the idea.

[Henia 11]

And also to take the sucking of the teeth, a step further... has anyone ever noticed how many body language gestures MENA people have? Way more then any Italian! LOL I know with my husband, we could have a full conversation walking in the souq with just our eyes and gestures. LOL No words!

[deemabrouk 0]

And also to take the sucking of the teeth, a step further... has anyone ever noticed how many body language gestures MENA people have? Way more then any Italian! LOL I know with my husband, we could have a full conversation walking in the souq with just our eyes and gestures. LOL No words!

well.. I've learned Charades is a good thing with my inlaws and sometimes with my husband

and I like the sucking the teeth bit... cause kids and hubby know I disapprove without me even saying anything!!!!

Edited July 5, 2007 by deemabrouk

[deemabrouk 0]

LOL... I'll suck my teeth at my kids... then they'll do something Anyways... and I'll be like "Didnt you hear me say NO!" lol

[Henia 11]

And also to take the sucking of the teeth, a step further... has anyone ever noticed how many body language gestures MENA people have? Way more then any Italian! LOL I know with my husband, we could have a full conversation walking in the souq with just our eyes and gestures. LOL No words!

well.. I've learned Charades is a good thing with my inlaws and sometimes with my husband

and I like the sucking the teeth bit... cause kids and hubby know I disapprove without me even saying anything!!!!

LOL They actually have their own body language. I have never seen so many ways to say obsence things without words LOL

[MelindaandTarek 0]

And also to take the sucking of the teeth, a step further... has anyone ever noticed how many body language gestures MENA people have? Way more then any Italian! LOL I know with my husband, we could have a full conversation walking in the souq with just our eyes and gestures. LOL No words!

well.. I've learned Charades is a good thing with my inlaws and sometimes with my husband

and I like the sucking the teeth bit... cause kids and hubby know I disapprove without me even saying anything!!!!

LOL They actually have their own body language. I have never seen so many ways to say obsence things without words LOL

I dont know any of these?! I remember laughing about the noise there - - so quiet where I live and I am a light sleeper to boot..and the dogs, men selling things w/the bull horn at all hours of hte night/morning..ppl jackhammering in the early hours..hahaha...so so funny...so i joke with my fiance, maybe he will have trble at first to sleep cause it is so quiet here...lots of great memories for sure...and I was so unsure of what to expect...I remember the first time I heard the call to prayer I was all drrrr...what is that noise..some sort of drill or something what is going on..hahaaa ok didnt do my homework much....good times:)