Marriage (Ir1) green interview waived if we have a kid?

[JFH 12,190]

33 minutes ago, JacobP said:

I remember reading something on the USCIS website to the effect of "do not include pornographic imagery as evidence". It's one of those things where you realize the only reason they had to say it is because someone did it before.

Someone on this very site did that. It was an interesting thread, to say the least. 

[HRQX 4,145]

35 minutes ago, JacobP said:

I remember reading something on the USCIS website to the effect of "do not include pornographic imagery as evidence". It's one of those things where you realize the only reason they had to say it is because someone did it before.

It says do not include "Graphic photos of childbirth or intimate relations as evidence of a relationship or marital bona fides." https://www.uscis.gov/i-129f IMO, they should also mention that on the I-130 info page.

[Orangesapples 1,954]

8 minutes ago, JFH said:

Just curious what you think should happen to a couple who have been together for many years but have chosen not to have “a kid” of who are unable to have “a kid”? You are surely not suggesting that their marriage is less real? 

*~*~*procedural question moved from “progress reports” to “process and procedures”*~*~*

No one suggests that. But having a child is still evidence for a bona fide marriage. How could it not be? Living together is evidence for bona fide marriage, yet I've lived with many people I have never been in a relationship with. And many couples have long distance relationships or just maintain separate residence. Does this mean that living together is not good evidence for bona fide marriage? No, it's just one of many. 

 

I don't understand the animosity. It's like some people are personally offended if someone suggests that children are evidence of a bona fide marriage. 

[JFH 12,190]

18 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

No one suggests that. But having a child is still evidence for a bona fide marriage. How could it not be? Living together is evidence for bona fide marriage, yet I've lived with many people I have never been in a relationship with. And many couples have long distance relationships or just maintain separate residence. Does this mean that living together is not good evidence for bona fide marriage? No, it's just one of many. 

 

I don't understand the animosity. It's like some people are personally offended if someone suggests that children are evidence of a bona fide marriage. 

The “animosity” is because the OP assumed that because they have a child together (and no other reason) that the interview might be waived. Therefore expecting that his marriage be seen differently from those that have not produced children. He made no mention of any other evidence that they might have that demonstrates a bona fide marriage, just “a kid”. Personally I don’t subscribe to the school of thought that a child is evidence of a bona fide marriage. My parents had 5 children but theirs was the most dysfunctional relationship I have ever known with my father having another woman in another city that he would stay with for days at a time under the guise of “working away”. It ended in a very acrimonious divorce that ruined my childhood. My husband and I have made the decision not to have children. I cannot have children biologically due to a surgical procedure to save my life at the age of 29. We have also decided not to adopt or use a surrogate. Meeting someone and building a life with someone who is equally committed to a child-free life and who shares the same goals is most certainly a bona fide marriage. 

[Ontarkie 14,221]

~~Post removed for Importing Drama (links to a locked thread) and one that quoted.~~

Edited August 28, 2020 by Ontarkie

[Orangesapples 1,954]

2 minutes ago, JFH said:

The “animosity” is because the OP assumed that because they have a child together (and no other reason) that the interview might be waived. Therefore expecting that his marriage be seen differently from those that have not produced children. He made no mention of any other evidence that they might have that demonstrates a bona fide marriage, just “a kid”. Personally I don’t subscribe to the school of thought that a child is evidence of a bona fide marriage. My parents had 5 children but theirs was the most dysfunctional relationship I have ever known with my father having another woman in another city that he would stay with for days at a time under the guise of “working away”. It ended in a very acrimonious divorce that ruined my childhood. My husband and I have made the decision not to have children. I cannot have children biologically due to a surgical procedure to save my life at the age of 29. We have also decided not to adopt or use a surrogate. Meeting someone and building a life with someone who is equally committed to a child-free life and who shares the same goals is most certainly a bona fide marriage. 

A dysfunctional relationship is still bona fide. USCIS and the embassy are trying to figure out immigration fraud, not judge whether a relationship is functional or not. Did your parents not have a bona fide marriage or was their marriage a fraud to gain immigration benefits? 

 

Some couples are opposed to joint bank accounts and comingling finances. Their decision is just as valid and I'm sure they can point out to dysfunctional marriages with shared finances and say that they're building a life with their partner and are fully committed to each other without a joint bank account. Joint finances are still evidence for a bona fide marriage even if they don't fit some couple's lifestyle. 

 

The same can be said about vacations together (some people hate traveling or can't afford it), wills, having a mortgage together, seeing each other's families, literally any evidence for bona fide marriage you can find couples it doesn't apply to and they're still bona fide couples. 

[mushroomspore 3,044]

1 hour ago, Orangesapples said:

No one suggests that. But having a child is still evidence for a bona fide marriage. How could it not be? Living together is evidence for bona fide marriage, yet I've lived with many people I have never been in a relationship with. And many couples have long distance relationships or just maintain separate residence. Does this mean that living together is not good evidence for bona fide marriage? No, it's just one of many. 

 

I don't understand the animosity. It's like some people are personally offended if someone suggests that children are evidence of a bona fide marriage. 

The animosity is because OP insinuated that on the one single basis of having a child, their interview could be waived. A kid is one form of evidence. USCIS need to see a multitude of different evidence of a bona fide relationship, not just one. I am sure there are fake couples out there who did have kids as part of their con. So there's also that.

Edited August 29, 2020 by mushroomspore

[pushbrk 12,883]

1 minute ago, mushroomspore said:

The animosity is because OP insinuated that on the one single basis of having a child, their interview could be waived. A kid is one form of evidence. USCIS need to see a multitude of different evidence of a bona fide relationship, not just one. 

True but as mentioned earlier, the interview is not ONLY about the relationship.  The law requires a visa applicant to appear in person, take an oath, and provide live fingerprints, among other things.  Let's provide facts, not police thoughts.

[mushroomspore 3,044]

7 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

True but as mentioned earlier, the interview is not ONLY about the relationship.  The law requires a visa applicant to appear in person, take an oath, and provide live fingerprints, among other things.  Let's provide facts, not police thoughts.

I wasn't policing thoughts. And where did I say the interview is only about the relationship? I was just repeating what the OP said and explained why some people reacted negatively to his question.

Edited August 29, 2020 by mushroomspore

[geowrian 22,337]

A child would be considered like any other circumstance. No single factor alone makes or breaks a case...they look at everything.

How much it matters, if at all, would be something only the CO can determine. There is nothing in the publicly-released policy manual that indicates how heavily of a factor it is considered.

People without children are approved all the time. People with joint children are refused for both reasons related to the marriage and other reasons.

 

They do want to see the BCs of any children from the marriage. This could imply that they weigh it is a positive factor.

Alternatively, it could just be for the purpose of discovering if the child was conceived outside the marriage. That's certainly happened quite a few times, as seen on VJ.

 

If having a child was a way to guarantee (or almost guarantee) that they won't question the legitimacy of the marriage, I'm quite confident a lot of scammers would be taking that route.

The idea that those people are unethical enough to engage in a sham marriage but not unethical enough to use a child is something I would not put much faith in.

[pushbrk 12,883]

29 minutes ago, mushroomspore said:

I wasn't policing thoughts. And where did I say the interview is only about the relationship? I was just repeating what the OP said and explained why some people reacted negatively to his question.

No, you weren't.  It was  a general reference to anybody with animosity in this case.  Also, you what USCIS wants to see.  The topic relates to what a Consulate and Consular Officer need to see.

[Ryan H 3,812]

***Post containing inflammatory language removed.  Since the OP has received a sufficient number of replies to their original question, this thread is now closed to further comments.***