The undecided voter thread: persuade me

[Dashinka 24,436]

Just now, CanAm1980 said:

You make a very good point. I am sorry this is not a place to express your personal views and not be belittled.

Who is belittling anyone personally.  In fact doing that would be against the TOS I believe.  People can vote however they want, and most of us here do not look to be labeled which is probably one of the reasons many do not follow the DNC's strategy of identity politics.

[Crtcl Rice Theory 2,432]

Current Score: 

Reasons to vote for Trump : 0

Reasons to Vote for Biden: Biden Voters don't exist, are shy, don't feel comfortable posting here or are out burning things down. 

[Dashinka 24,436]

8 hours ago, laylalex said:

I can't say that I am really pro-Biden, but I am pro-sanity. I see more of it coming from one camp than another. I also know that I am really outnumbered here for better or worse, and I don't really feel like "debating" my point of view with people who think I am deluded/naive/a socialist/in bed with anarchists. I have given a lot of thought, as a progressive capitalist, to where I think my vote is better directed. We are all entitled to our points of view, and I don't fancy being belittled for a decision that I have made after quite a bit of thought. 

This is going to be Biden's biggest problem, garnering some level of excitement to get the vote out.  I hear the same thing from others that are die hard Democrats and would not ever think of voting for Trump who are more inclined to stay home than vote for Joe.

[Crazy Cat 41,675]

10 minutes ago, CanAm1980 said:

Reasons to vote for Trump : 0

I don't think you were undecided at all when you started this thread....I see no reason for me to continue in this discussion.......

 

---LC out

Edited August 26, 2020 by Lucky Cat

[Crtcl Rice Theory 2,432]

9 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

 

Being asked sometimes by people who are on the fence or who aren’t very politically active:

 

“What has @realDonaldTrump done or fixed as President?"

 

It’s a good question deserving of an in depth answer, so here’s a thread listing some of what he’s done in 3 years. Read it all!

 

•This week Trump signed 3 bills for Native people. One gives compensation to the Spokane tribe for loss of their lands in the mid-1900s, one funds Native language programs and the other gives federal recognition to the Little Shell Tribe of Chippewa Indians in Montana

•This month Trump finalized the creation of Space Force as our 6th Military branch

•This month Trump signed a law to make cruelty to animals a federal felony so that animal abusers face tougher consequences

•Violent crime has fallen every year he’s been in office after rising the 2 years before he was elected

•Trump signed bill making CBD and Hemp legal 

•Trump’s EPA gave $100 million to fix the water infrastructure problem in Flint, Michigan

•Under Trump’s leadership, in 2018 the U.S. surpassed Russia and Saudi Arabia to become the world’s largest producer of crude oil

•Trump signed a law ending the gag orders on Pharmacists that prevented them from sharing money saving information

•Trump signed the “Allow States and Victims to Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act” (FOSTA), which includes the “Stop Enabling Sex Traffickers Act” (SESTA) which both give law enforcement and victims new tools to fight sex trafficking

•Trump signed a bill to require airports to provide spaces for breastfeeding Moms

•The 25% lowest-paid Americans enjoyed a 4.5% income boost in November 2019, that outpaces a 2.9% gain in earnings for the country's highest-paid workers

•Low-wage workers are benefiting from higher minimum wages and corporations that are increasing entry-level pay

•Trump signed the biggest wilderness protection & conservation bill in a decade and designated 375,000 acres as protected land

•Trump signed the Save our Seas Act which funds $10 million per year to clean tons of plastic & garbage from the ocean

•He signed a bill this year allowing some drug imports from Canada so that prescription prices would go down

•Trump signed an executive order this year that forces all healthcare providers to disclose the cost of their services so that Americans can comparison shop and know how much less providers charge insurance companies

•When signing that bill he said no American should be blindsided by bills for medical services they never agreed to in advance

•Hospitals will now be required to post their standard charges for services, which include the discounted price a hospital is willing to accept

•In the eight years prior to President Trump’s inauguration, prescription drug prices increased by an average of 3.6% per year. Under Trump drug prices have seen year-over-year declines in nine of the last ten months, with a 1.1% drop as of the most recent month.

•Created a White House VA Hotline to help veterans and principally staffed it with veterans and direct family members of veterans

•VA employees are being held accountable for poor performance, with more than 4,000 VA employees removed, demoted, and suspended so far

•Issued an executive order requiring the Secretaries of Defense, Homeland Security, and Veterans Affairs to submit a joint plan to provide veterans access to access to mental health treatment as they transition to civilian life

•Because of a bill signed and championed by Trump, In 2020, most federal employees will see their pay increase by an average of 3.1% — the largest raise in more than 10 years

•Trump signed into a law up to 12 weeks of paid parental leave for millions of federal workers

•Trump administration will provide HIV prevention drug for free to 200,000 uninsured patients per year for 11 years

•All time record sales during the 2019 holidays

•Trump signed an order allowing small businesses to group together when buying insurance to get a better price

•President Trump signed the Preventing Maternal Deaths Act that provides funding for states to develop maternal mortality reviews to better understand maternal complications and identify solutions & largely focuses on reducing the higher mortality rates for Black Americans

•In 2018, President Trump signed the groundbreaking First Step Act, a criminal justice bill which enacted reforms that make our justice system fairer and help former inmates successfully return to society

•The First Step Act’s reforms addressed inequities in sentencing laws that disproportionately harmed Black Americans and reformed mandatory minimums that created unfair outcomes

•The First Step Act expanded judicial discretion in sentencing of non-violent crimes

•Over 90% of those benefiting from the retroactive sentencing reductions in the First Step Act are Black Americans

•The First Step Act provides rehabilitative programs to inmates, helping them successfully rejoin society and not return to crime

•Trump increased funding for Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) by more than 14%

•Trump signed legislation forgiving Hurricane Katrina debt that threatened HBCUs

•New single-family home sales are up 31.6% in October 2019 compared to just one year ago

•Made HBCUs a priority by creating the position of executive director of the White House Initiative on HBCUs

•Trump received the Bipartisan Justice Award at a historically black college for his criminal justice reform accomplishments

•The poverty rate fell to a 17-year low of 11.8% under the Trump administration as a result of a jobs-rich environment

•Poverty rates for African-Americans and Hispanic-Americans have reached their lowest levels since the U.S. began collecting such data

•Pres. Trump signed a bill that creates five national monuments, expands several national parks, adds 1.3 million acres of wilderness, and permanently reauthorizes the Land and Water Conservation Fund

•Trump’s USDA committed $124 Million to rebuild rural water infrastructure

•Consumer confidence & small business confidence at an all time high 

•More than 7 million jobs created since election

•More Americans are now employed than ever recorded before in our history

•More than 400,000 manufacturing jobs created since his election

•Trump appointed 5 openly gay ambassadors 

•Trump ordered his openly gay ambassador to Germany, Ric Grenell to lead a global initiative to decriminalize homosexuality across the globe

•Through Trump’s Anti-Trafficking Coordination Team (ACTeam) initiative, Federal law enforcement more than doubled convictions of human traffickers and increased the number of defendants charged by 75% in ACTeam districts

•In 2018, the Department of Justice (DOJ) dismantled an organization that was the internet’s leading source of prostitution-related advertisements resulting in sex trafficking.

•Trump’s OMB published new anti-trafficking guidance for government procurement officials to more effectively combat human trafficking

•Trump’s Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s Homeland Security Investigations arrested 1,588 criminals associated with Human Trafficking

•Trump’s Department of Health and Human Services provided funding to support the National Human Trafficking Hotline to identify perpetrators and give victims the help they need

•The hotline identified 16,862 potential human trafficking cases

•Trump’s DOJ provided grants to organizations that support human trafficking victims – serving nearly 9,000 cases from July 1, 2017, to June 30, 2018

•The Department of Homeland Security has hired more victim assistance specialists, helping victims get resources and support

•President Trump has called on Congress to pass school choice legislation so that no child is trapped in a failing school because of his or her zip code

•The President signed funding legislation in September 2018 that increased funding for school choice by $42 million

•The tax cuts signed into law by President Trump promote school choice by allowing families to use 529 college savings plans for elementary and secondary education

•Under his leadership ISIS has lost most of their territory and been largely dismantled

•ISIS leader Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi was killed

•Signed the first Perkins CTE reauthorization since 2006, authorizing more than $1 billion for states each year to fund vocational and career education programs

•Executive order expanding apprenticeship opportunities for students and workers

•President Trump’s issued an Executive Order prohibiting the U.S. government from discriminating against Christians or punishing expressions of faith

•Signed an executive order that allows the government to withhold money from college campuses deemed to be anti-Semitic and who fail to combat anti-Semitism

•President Trump ordered a halt to U.S. tax money going to international organizations that fund or perform abortions

•Trump imposed sanctions on the socialists in Venezuela who have killed their citizens

•Finalized new trade agreement with South Korea

•Made a deal with the European Union to increase U.S. energy exports to Europe

•Withdrew the U.S. from the job killing TPP deal

•Secured $250 billion in new trade and investment deals in China and $12 billion in Vietnam

•OK’d up to $12 billion in aid for farmers affected by unfair trade retaliation

•Has had over a dozen US hostages freed, including those Obama could not get freed

•Trump signed the Music Modernization Act, the biggest change to copyright law in decades

•Trump secured Billions that will fund the building of a wall at our southern border

•The Trump Administration is promoting second chance hiring to give former inmates the opportunity to live crime-free lives and find meaningful employment

•Trump’s DOJ and the BOP launched a new “Ready to Work Initiative” to help connect employers directly with former prisoners

•President Trump’s historic tax cut legislation included new Opportunity Zone Incentives to promote investment in low-income communities across the country

•8,764 communities across the country have been designated as Opportunity Zones

•Opportunity Zones are expected to spur $100 billion in long-term private capital investment in economically distressed communities across the country

•Trump directed the Education Secretary to end Common Core

•Trump signed the 9/11 Victims Compensation Fund into law

•Trump signed measure funding prevention programs for Veteran suicide

•Companies have brought back over a TRILLION dollars from overseas because of the TCJA bill that Trump signed

•Manufacturing jobs growing at the fastest rate in more than 30 years

•Stock Market has reached record highs

•Median household income has hit highest level ever recorded

•African-American unemployment is at an all time low

•Hispanic-American unemployment is at an all time low

•Asian-American unemployment is at an all time low

•Women’s unemployment rate is at a 65 year low

•Youth unemployment is at a 50 year low

•We have the lowest unemployment rate ever recorded for

•The Pledge to America’s Workers has resulted in employers committing to train more than 4 million Americans

•95 percent of U.S. manufacturers are optimistic about the future— the highest ever.

•As a result of the Republican tax bill, small businesses will have the lowest top marginal tax rate in more than 80 years

•Record number of regulations eliminated that hurt small businesses

•Signed welfare reform requiring able-bodied adults who don’t have children to work or look for work if they’re on welfare

•Under Trump, the FDA approved more affordable generic drugs than ever before in history

•Reformed Medicare program to stop hospitals from overcharging low-income seniors on their drugs—saving seniors 100’s of millions of $$$ this year alone

•Signed Right-To-Try legislation allowing terminally ill patients to try experimental treatment that wasn’t allowed before

•Secured $6 billion in new funding to fight the opioid epidemic

•Signed VA Choice Act and VA Accountability Act, expanded VA telehealth services, walk-in-clinics, and same-day urgent primary and mental health care

•U.S. oil production recently reached all-time high so we are less dependent on oil from the Middle East

•The U.S. is a net natural gas exporter for the first time since 1957

•NATO allies increased their defense spending because of his pressure campaign

•Withdrew the United States from the job-killing Paris Climate Accord in 2017 and that same year the U.S. still led the world by having the largest reduction in Carbon emissions

•Has his circuit court judges being confirmed faster than any other new administration

•Had his Supreme Court Justice’s Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh confirmed

•Moved U.S. Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem

•Agreed to a new trade deal with Mexico & Canada that will increase jobs here and $$$ coming in

•Reached a breakthrough agreement with the E.U. to increase U.S. exports

•Imposed tariffs on China in response to China’s forced technology transfer, intellectual property theft, and their chronically abusive trade practices, has agreed to a part 1 trade deal with China

•Signed legislation to improve the National Suicide Hotline

•Signed the most comprehensive childhood cancer legislation ever into law, which will advance childhood cancer research and improve treatments

 

This is just SOME of of the incredible work @realDonaldTrumpand his admin have done in their 3 years so far at the@WhiteHouse. This is why I support him. This is why I’ll vote in 2020 to Keep America Great. If you have uninformed family or friends, show them this thread!

Another upcoming accomplishment to add: In the next week or two Trump will be signing the first major anti-robocall law in decades called the TRACED Act (Telephone Robocall Abuse Criminal Enforcement and Deterrence). I’ll explain the law in the next tweet.

Once it’s law the TRACED Act will extend the period of time the FCC has to catch & punish those who intentionally break telemarketing restrictions. The bill also requires voice service providers to develop a framework to verify calls are legitimate before they reach your phone.

The TRACED Act requires carriers to share tools & the ability to block spam callers with customers for free. It also changes the fine imposed on spam telemarketers from $1,500 to $10,000 PER CALL. Earlier this year Trump’s FCC fined one robocall guy $120 million. Common sense. 😉

 

Another accomplishment I need to add:

•The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act signed into law by Trump doubled the maximum amount of the child tax credit available to parents and lifted the income limits so more people could claim it

•It also created a new tax credit for other dependents

Another couple of accomplishments to add to the list:

•In 2018, President Trump signed into law a $2.4 billion funding increase for the Child Care and Development Fund, providing a total of $8.1 billion to States to fund child care for low-income families

•The Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit (CDCTC) signed into law by Trump provides a tax credit equal to 20-35% of child care expenses, $3,000 per child & $6,000 per family + Flexible Spending Accounts (FSAs) allow you to set aside up to $5,000 in pre-tax $ to use for child care

•In 2019 President Donald Trump signed the Autism Collaboration, Accountability, Research, Education and Support Act (CARES) into law which allocates $1.8 billion in funding over the next five years to help people with autism spectrum disorder and to help their families.

 

 

 

Meanwhile, Joe Biden allowed kids at the pool to play with his hairy legs. 

 

The choice is pretty clear... even Stevie Wonder can see it.

 

Is this your work or a copy paste?

[Ban Hammer 13,282]

1 minute ago, CanAm1980 said:

Is this your work or a copy paste?

as hillary said - what difference would it make?

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

28 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

I like neocommunists, easier to say.

The anarcho part being the anarchy they advocate when not in power. The communism is their actual views and the output of them getting power. 

 

I suspect Ori takes issue with the anarcho part because of how he labels himself, but he's even less "anarcho-" then they are with ideas like government forcefully tracking travelers, police squashing this variant of anarchists, etc.

 

People do not and cannot function as actual anarchists, anarchists in reality are used to describe those who simply oppose the current power structure and want it thrown out. Something else always replaces it. 

[laylalex 7,284]

8 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

Naw, I don't think so.  You've been offered more than one opportunity to do so, both publicly and in private, and have failed to rise to the challenge.  Which is sad, considering how well educated you say you are.

I can, but as I've said before, I'm not required to. There's no "you must post this many words about where your political thoughts are about a candidate" rule to participate here. Maybe it's for platinum members only?

[laylalex 7,284]

34 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

This is going to be Biden's biggest problem, garnering some level of excitement to get the vote out.  I hear the same thing from others that are die hard Democrats and would not ever think of voting for Trump who are more inclined to stay home than vote for Joe.

Honestly, everyone I know was a Warren or Harris or Bernie supporter and they are all motivated to vote. I read it on friends' Facebook pages, people who say, yes, I'm selling out voting for that corporate shill Biden, but this isn't about me this time. I am still Facebook friends with the anarchist and even he is voting for Biden this time and encouraging his friends to do so as well. But beyond that there has also been a lot of reporting lately about enthusiasm levels growing when it comes to voting against Trump. Yes, against. It's not really necessary to be bought into Biden to vote for him. Just as there were many Trump supporters who voted for him who found him politically expedient but personally awful. 

 

Where are you reading that Democrats are going to stay home?

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

21 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Honestly, everyone I know was a Warren or Harris or Bernie supporter and they are all motivated to vote. I read it on friends' Facebook pages, people who say, yes, I'm selling out voting for that corporate shill Biden, but this isn't about me this time. I am still Facebook friends with the anarchist and even he is voting for Biden this time and encouraging his friends to do so as well. But beyond that there has also been a lot of reporting lately about enthusiasm levels growing when it comes to voting against Trump. Yes, against. It's not really necessary to be bought into Biden to vote for him. Just as there were many Trump supporters who voted for him who found him politically expedient but personally awful. 

 

Where are you reading that Democrats are going to stay home?

It's always about someone. The parties make it about them because the entire goal is to psychologically reduce your choices down to 2. 

 

The only reason some anarcho-communists might consider Biden this time around is because Dems, the media, have encouraged their extremism. It's not that they support it, it's because this is how the parties operate, absorbing overlapping grassroots movements back into their own party.. own power structure, and get plenty of party prosumerists to spread the "wasted vote" third-party/write-in myth.

 

Whether one whittles it down to a "protest vote" or whatever, they know corruption when they see it, and it's why 15-25% refused to vote Clinton in 16, they have principles. This had a profound impact given the Johnson/Stein/Trump votes in states like MI, PA, WI, OH, etc. Roughly the same demographic have said they'd vote third party again, Trump, or even stay home. There's no reason to doubt them. Hillary isn't as hated as Biden but the Democrats aren't hiding their priorities when they welcome the Lincoln Project, neocons, people like Comey, Brennan, Page. When they invoke targeted authoritarian shutdown tactics on the premise of the virus, when they about-face supporting Antifa, BLM, and extermist groups involved in the nationwide rioting/looting chaos. It presents an image far worse than Hillary could do, and it'll resonate with voters in these key states again. Minus voter fraud, Trump has to be happy with where he is.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[OriZ 3,157]

3 hours ago, Dashinka said:

So they are not anarchists promoting no government, but rather radical Leftist activists promoting a major change in how we are governed.  I would put them squarely in the Marxist/Communist camp. 

Totally.

[OriZ 3,157]

53 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

The anarcho part being the anarchy they advocate when not in power. The communism is their actual views and the output of them getting power. 

 

I suspect Ori takes issue with the anarcho part because of how he labels himself, but he's even less "anarcho-" then they are with ideas like government forcefully tracking travelers, police squashing this variant of anarchists, etc.

 

People do not and cannot function as actual anarchists, anarchists in reality are used to describe those who simply oppose the current power structure and want it thrown out. Something else always replaces it. 

I never said I was an anarchist, I said I'm a minarchist(in which one of the few roles the state does have is using the military and police to protect you). I was just saying I know Ancaps and not a single one of them is like those ancoms. I don't consider ancoms to be anarchists because it goes against everything anarchism or the NAP is about.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

7 minutes ago, OriZ said:

I never said I was an anarchist, I said I'm a minarchist(in which one of the few roles the state does have is using the military and police to protect you). I was just saying I know Ancaps and not a single one of them is like those ancoms. I don't consider ancoms to be anarchists because it goes against everything anarchism or the NAP is about.

A "minarchist" is basically an anarchist, because actual anarchists don't really exist in the most extreme sense, so there's always some compromising level of social authority to adhere to, whether its on the governmental level or corporate. 

 

The premise is, they are anarcho-communists. They aren't pure anarchists. They believe in anarchy when not in power,  engage in Bolshevik style tactics to get themselves into power, and when they do, institute communism just as their Bolshevik namesake did. I found the common reverence for the Lenin statue of these little statue toppling mobs out west very appropriate.

[OriZ 3,157]

19 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

A "minarchist" is basically an anarchist, because actual anarchists don't really exist in the most extreme sense, so there's always some compromising level of social authority to adhere to, whether its on the governmental level or corporate. 

 

The premise is, they are anarcho-communists. They aren't pure anarchists. They believe in anarchy when not in power,  engage in Bolshevik style tactics to get themselves into power, and when they do, institute communism just as their Bolshevik namesake did. I found the common reverence for the Lenin statue of these little statue toppling mobs out west very appropriate.

I have no idea why you say they don't exist. I literally know a few and to them, I'm a statist(to them anyone who doesn't believe in total obviation is a statist). 

 

 

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

22 minutes ago, OriZ said:

I have no idea why you say they don't exist. I literally know a few and to them, I'm a statist(to them anyone who doesn't believe in total obviation is a statist). 

 

 

The vast majority of anarchists are (marketed) anarchists to eliminate the current power structure. That's it. It's fantasy. In the few times they remove the power structure, they replace it with something that isn't remotely like anarchy. They can call themselves Davids.. they take out Goliath. Are they Davids? No. Anarchists in the modern political sense are simply terrorists, antagonists, the actual output of the things they do. They don't have ideas the current power structure wants, and if the power structure is elected by a majority (or plurality), they are indefinitely a very small minority. They aren't what they claim they are, thankfully we have history and their own contradicting viewpoints to demonstrate.

 

Just like you can have some furry call themselves wolfkin, why should I say wolfkin exists? Because people pretend it does? No thanks.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds