The undecided voter thread: persuade me

[Steeleballz 7,550]

21 hours ago, laylalex said:

Now now, there's no need to be condescending. I have my reasons for why I believe Trump is a terrible president and terrible for America, but I have no obligation to share them with you. We've gone down this road before and it didn't lead anywhere useful. 

 

But here's my question again, phrased a little differently: why is it when Biden says clearly that he will not use fact checkers during the debate, that somehow people on here believe that he will because..... why? Feelings? Hunches? Whispers? I'm not demanding an answer of you in particular, as that would be rather hypocritical. I'm just throwing it out there.

 

  In the echo chamber, no one hears you ask "why".

[laylalex 7,284]

Just now, Steeleballz said:

 

  In the echo chamber, no one hears you ask "why".

I try to seek out the signal and not pay attention to the noise. There's a lot of noise recently. 

[Dashinka 24,420]

7 hours ago, laylalex said:

I try to seek out the signal and not pay attention to the noise. There's a lot of noise recently. 

Will Joe actually doing the fact checking himself, or will someone else be doing it and feeding him the information?  

[yuna628 9,665]

20 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

Why does Trump "scare you more"?  He has done more good for this country, and cut our taxes once already, than Biden has done in 47 years.  Trump isn't going to take SS away.  He cannot.  Now, the politicians in DC CAN, and HAVE, "borrowed" a lot of money from the SS pool of money, which I feel is unjust to all of us who INVOLUNTARILY are coerced into putting our own money into it.

 

As Yuna pointed out, this deferment is temporary, and will have to be paid back.  Fortunately, I don't think my employer will defer our taxes.  And if they do, all i have to do is set that money aside each month for a few months until they want it back, which is very easy for anyone to do.

Well there's a couple of problems that this temporary deferment creates, especially if an employer should choose to participate. And as you well know the majority of Americans likely haven't got 'money to set aside' and still continue on counting for SS to be there when they retire. Would it be nice to get extra money in pay? Sure. But if it means a big chunk has to come out next year, I'd rather not. It also creates an unnecessary hassle for employers to figure it all out. Most economists and tax people argue the idea is just terrible all around no matter who suggests it. And while it is 'temporary' there's no guarantee it's actually temporary. Now you know he's said he wants to make it permanent, as if it's some really great selling feature or something. Constitutionally, as I understand it, he cannot make it a permanent thing - which is why the EO on this subject is temporary. BUT, if Congress continues to do nothing to address it, he could in theory just keep making 'temporary deferments' in new EOs. Who would stop it, exactly? And this will, as mentioned before have serious consequences for SS. It's been kicked down the can so much, that a solution should be found. Not making rash and unhelpful decisions.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

Well there's a couple of problems that this temporary deferment creates, especially if an employer should choose to participate. And as you well know the majority of Americans likely haven't got 'money to set aside' and still continue on counting for SS to be there when they retire. Would it be nice to get extra money in pay? Sure. But if it means a big chunk has to come out next year, I'd rather not. It also creates an unnecessary hassle for employers to figure it all out. Most economists and tax people argue the idea is just terrible all around no matter who suggests it. And while it is 'temporary' there's no guarantee it's actually temporary. Now you know he's said he wants to make it permanent, as if it's some really great selling feature or something. Constitutionally, as I understand it, he cannot make it a permanent thing - which is why the EO on this subject is temporary. BUT, if Congress continues to do nothing to address it, he could in theory just keep making 'temporary deferments' in new EOs. Who would stop it, exactly? And this will, as mentioned before have serious consequences for SS. It's been kicked down the can so much, that a solution should be found. Not making rash and unhelpful decisions.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly.  I didn't want the $1200 stimulus, but had no choice, as it just got deposited to my account.  And I don't want this deferment either.

 

As to the bold part, I was not referring to regular savings, which most Americans choose not to set aside each month, rather they can easily see how much they WERE paying in FICA each month, and they could set that money aside (as it wouldn't have been part of their pay anyway) and when the time comes next year for it to be taken out again (whether all at once or over a few paychecks), they wouldn't feel the bite (as badly).

 

 

 

 

Social Security's problems come to a head

Every year, the Social Security Board of Trustees releases a report examining the short-term (10 year) and long-term (75 year) outlook for America's most important social program. Since 1985, it's been warning that long-term revenue wouldn't be sufficient to sustain the existing payout schedule, which includes assumptions for annual cost-of-living adjustments. Ongoing demographic changes that include the retirement of baby boomers, increased longevity, lower fertility rates, and growing income inequality, are adversely impacting Social Security.

According to the June 2018 report, the program is soon expected to begin paying out more money than it collects each year. The last time we saw a net cash outflow from Social Security was back in 1982. While these net cash outflows will be relatively small at first, compared to the $2.9 trillion currently held in asset reserves, they're expected to grow in size by 2020 and beyond.

Based on the estimates of the Trustees, Social Security's $2.9 trillion in asset reserves will be completely gone by 2034. Should lawmakers not find a way to raise additional revenue and/or cut expenditures by then, an across-the-board cut in benefits of up to 21% may await. That's particularly worrisome, given that 62% of retired workers rely on their benefit check to account for at least half of their income.

 

The federal government hasn't pilfered a dime from Social Security 

The fact is that Congress, despite borrowing $2.9 trillion from Social Security, hasn't pilfered or misappropriated a red cent from the program. Regardless of whether Social Security was presented as a unified budget under Lyndon B. Johnson or as a separate entity (i.e., off budget), none of its funding has been conflated with normal federal spending.

What's more, Social Security is already generating interest income from the federal government on its borrowing. As of Dec. 31, 2018, the $2.9 trillion in special-issue bonds and certificates of indebtedness were yielding an average of 2.85%. Since these bonds range in maturity from 1 to 15 years, there's plenty of opportunity to take advantage of rising yields and adjust the program's bond investments as needed.

Ultimately, Congress' borrowing allowed Social Security to collect $85.1 billion in interest income for 2017, and it's expected to provide $804 billion in aggregate interest income between 2018 and 2027. In other words, when opponents of this borrowing complain about the program not receiving interest, they're simply not doing their homework.

Making matters worse, some folks want to see this borrowing repaid in full. Doing so would require the federal government to find $2.9 trillion in borrowing elsewhere if that happened. But more importantly, it would deprive the program of valuable interest income, pushing Social Security into the red very quickly. Cash sitting around in a vault would do no one any good as it'd be losing purchasing power almost every year to inflation.

Lastly, regardless of whether Social Security owns government-issued bonds or cash, it doesn't change the asset reserves held by the program. It's $2.9 trillion either way. To suggest that repaying these bonds would put the program on more solid footing is simply not correct, as it'd have no impact on the program's total assets, and it would actually hurt its revenue-generating prospects.

Long story short, Congress is in the clear on this one.

 

 

 

[OriZ 3,157]

Social security is a ponzi scheme. Making it mandatory to take money out of people's pockets and decide for them when they can get it back is a scam. The whole thing should be abolished, or at least made optional. As it stands it is worse than Madoff because at least his victims chose to be idiots.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

7 hours ago, OriZ said:

Social security is a ponzi scheme. Making it mandatory to take money out of people's pockets and decide for them when they can get it back is a scam. The whole thing should be abolished, or at least made optional. As it stands it is worse than Madoff because at least his victims chose to be idiots.

Exactly this right here. When this was brought up in the local politics page on FB it seems the only ones that want to keep it are the older people. While us younger people want something more sustainable. I get a better return off of my 401k than I ever would from social security

[Ban Hammer 13,276]

6 minutes ago, Cyberfx1024 said:

Exactly this right here. When this was brought up in the local politics page on FB it seems the only ones that want to keep it are the older people. While us younger people want something more sustainable. I get a better return off of my 401k than I ever would from social security

silly citizen!  the democrats know what is best for you!  plus they gain interest on that money and just flat keep it if you die before retirement....

[Boiler 45,374]

To be fair it is not just the US, all such schemes are not funded and live on hope, lots of old people dying?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

24 minutes ago, Boiler said:

To be fair it is not just the US, all such schemes are not funded and live on hope, lots of old people dying?

Perhaps that's why covid was released.

[nykolos 711]

On 8/24/2020 at 6:19 AM, CanAm1980 said:

What are the Pros of electing Joe Biden?

 

 

Joe is a trustworthy guy, he has over 45 years experience in Washington DC,  he has taken on the gun lobby to prevent guns from killing people,  150 Million people died from guns and 120 million died from Covid19 this year, it's outrageous! the US population has been reduced from 350 million to only 80 million now!, thankfully we have Joe Biden who's proposing open borders and tearing down the wall so we can be back up to 350 Million in no time.  And you need to look at Biden and Obama's accomplishments toward the black community, the empathy they both displayed, promises made and promises ... never mind that, I'm very moved by it and Trump displays none of that,  that's what makes me think Trump is a racist,  don't mind the African Americans who spoke at the RNC convention, what you saw were slaves working for the white man, Donald Trump.  Biden supports the peaceful protesters who who sing in harmony every night while Trump sends in Federal agents to arrest them, Biden wants to stop the white supremacists from burning down our cities,  Antifa is a myth, these are Trump supporters burning down our buildings just so Trump can get reelected.  I think the choice is clear on who you should vote for.  

 

And please don't question my facts, I get all my facts from the 2 "most trusted" and "fact finding" networks and I know the difference between a Apple and a Banana OK?

 

 

On 8/24/2020 at 6:19 AM, CanAm1980 said:

What are the Pros of electing Donald Trump?

 

Our Freedom

 

 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

5 minutes ago, nykolos said:

 

Joe is a trustworthy guy, he has over 45 years experience in Washington DC,  he has taken on the gun lobby to prevent guns from killing people,  150 Million people died from guns and 120 million died from Covid19 this year, it's outrageous! the US population has been reduced from 350 million to only 80 million now!, thankfully we have Joe Biden who's proposing open borders and tearing down the wall so we can be back up to 350 Million in no time.  And you need to look at Biden and Obama's accomplishments toward the black community, the empathy they both displayed, promises made and promises ... never mind that, I'm very moved by it and Trump displays none of that,  that's what makes me think Trump is a racist,  don't mind the African Americans who spoke at the RNC convention, what you saw were slaves working for the white man, Donald Trump.  Biden supports the peaceful protesters who who sing in harmony every night while Trump sends in Federal agents to arrest them, Biden wants to stop the white supremacists from burning down our cities,  Antifa is a myth, these are Trump supporters burning down our buildings just so Trump can get reelected.  I think the choice is clear on who you should vote for.  

 

And please don't question my facts, I get all my facts from the 2 "most trusted" and "fact finding" networks and I know the difference between a Apple and a Banana OK?

 

 

Our Freedom

 

 

did you steal that from the DNC?

[nykolos 711]

2 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

did you steal that from the DNC?

Mostly from CNN and MSNBC, and listening to people who Parrot what these networks spoon feed to them. 

 

 

[Boiler 45,374]

1 hour ago, nykolos said:

Mostly from CNN and MSNBC, and listening to people who Parrot what these networks spoon feed to them. 

 

 

So yes you did.

[Boiler 45,374]