The undecided voter thread: persuade me

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

On 8/26/2020 at 9:54 AM, CanAm1980 said:

Is this your work or a copy paste?

If course it's a copy/paste.  Even with 'Rona going on, I don't have the time to chase down all those details.  

 

Did you skim thru them, or just ignore them because they don't fit your agenda in this thread?

[Ban Hammer 13,276]

vote left, and enjoy the benefits.
https://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2012/03/30/20-phenomenal-fringe-benefits-of-being-a-liberal-n1320581

[Oliversmom 250]

2 hours ago, yuna628 said:

Currently, starting this coming Friday to Dec 31st, the IRS is saying that because of his 'order' employers should not collect SS tax out of a paycheck if you make under a certain amount, baring Congress not fixing this issue. This means a modest boost to each paycheck you receive, however, little guidance on the subject has been given and it will turn into a nightmare for employers and payroll. Some people might be amused by the pay raise, however come 2021, the IRS will require employers to effectively reduce paychecks to collect that all back. Several financial publications did the math and it was a significant amount, more than many employers are willing to remove from their employees paychecks which would create a severe hardship on all parties involved. Therefore many employers will choose to ignore the administrations 'directive'. If this deferment (as in the IRS never recoups the taxes) is made permanent Social Security will be bankrupt by 2023. If the employers choose to accept to defer and not pay the taxes back by garnishing out of your wages in 2021, penalties and interest will accrue which YOU or your employer are going to be responsible for. The high liabilities and no guarantees of a solution by the IRS has made many employers balk at this false choice and decide to completely ignore the IRS. They will continue to collect the taxes out of your pay as normal. Of course this will depend on the employer so it's best to ask what they will decide to do with your money.

Thank you for finding this.  I had read the part about social security being bankrupt in 2023 and that scares the life out of me.  In a few years I will be of social security age if it still exists.  This is why Trump scares me so much.  I'll be honest - I am selfish and my concerns about these people (Trump and Biden) is how they will affect me!  And they both scare me.  But Trump scares me more.  I need social security.  Yes I have savings but I had to go through a lot of them while being unemployed during Covid.  So I NEED my future social security!

[Ban Hammer 13,276]

2 hours ago, yuna628 said:

Currently, starting this coming Friday to Dec 31st, the IRS is saying that because of his 'order' employers should not collect SS tax out of a paycheck if you make under a certain amount, baring Congress not fixing this issue. This means a modest boost to each paycheck you receive, however, little guidance on the subject has been given and it will turn into a nightmare for employers and payroll. Some people might be amused by the pay raise, however come 2021, the IRS will require employers to effectively reduce paychecks to collect that all back. Several financial publications did the math and it was a significant amount, more than many employers are willing to remove from their employees paychecks which would create a severe hardship on all parties involved. Therefore many employers will choose to ignore the administrations 'directive'. If this deferment (as in the IRS never recoups the taxes) is made permanent Social Security will be bankrupt by 2023. If the employers choose to accept to defer and not pay the taxes back by garnishing out of your wages in 2021, penalties and interest will accrue which YOU or your employer are going to be responsible for. The high liabilities and no guarantees of a solution by the IRS has made many employers balk at this false choice and decide to completely ignore the IRS. They will continue to collect the taxes out of your pay as normal. Of course this will depend on the employer so it's best to ask what they will decide to do with your money.

i'd still like a link to this "order"

 

[yuna628 9,665]

16 minutes ago, Oliversmom said:

Thank you for finding this.  I had read the part about social security being bankrupt in 2023 and that scares the life out of me.  In a few years I will be of social security age if it still exists.  This is why Trump scares me so much.  I'll be honest - I am selfish and my concerns about these people (Trump and Biden) is how they will affect me!  And they both scare me.  But Trump scares me more.  I need social security.  Yes I have savings but I had to go through a lot of them while being unemployed during Covid.  So I NEED my future social security!

To be fair, I don't know how old you are personally, but the Social Security will be bankrupt anyway if no changes are made and we continue as normal. It is highly doubtful it will be there for people like me or my husband. Hopefully it will be there for my sister, though she doubts that too. This change however, will speed up the process significantly. People like my dad though don't really care, because ''he's got his", though I suspect if he was suddenly cut off, there would be a great deal of complaining on his part.

[yuna628 9,665]

20 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

i'd still like a link to this "order"

 

Well you could certainly google or use any search engine of your choosing to find it. My search brought up links to fox news, NYT etc, and many many local news stations, followed by many business analysis. I'm not sure which link you'd find the best acceptable. The Chief Actuary gave the hard numbers of what would happen to Social Security. Of course you can find the memorandum via the Treasury Department and the IRS as publication 2020-65. The actual memorandum was directed by the administration and signed on August the 8th.

Edited August 29, 2020 by yuna628

[Oliversmom 250]

20 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

To be fair, I don't know how old you are personally, but the Social Security will be bankrupt anyway if no changes are made and we continue as normal. It is highly doubtful it will be there for people like me or my husband. Hopefully it will be there for my sister, though she doubts that too. This change however, will speed up the process significantly. People like my dad though don't really care, because ''he's got his", though I suspect if he was suddenly cut off, there would be a great deal of complaining on his part.

Well I will be 67 in 8 more years.  That is my target retirement age is my health holds out.  Or maybe I will make it to 70.  I love my work and enjoy each day so would like to continue.  Hoping social security is there when I need it.  I want to retire and volunteer full time for animal rescue.  Those are my goals and plans.  But life has a way of changing your plans as we ago along.  So we will see.

[yuna628 9,665]

Oh and because I could not edit:

This twitter thread was from the 8th, you'd have to go there to browse through it. You could also find this info on several conservative sites at the time it was announced - mostly against as a stupid idea. Some GOP yelled it was unconstitutional, and some agreed, while others didn't find it unconstitutional but again really dumb (it doesn't say that an employer MUST choose to stop paying in the taxes but that they certainly could do that - and some may choose to, at their own risks or stupidity or harm to their employees). It does give employers a major headache in trying to figure out all the documentation and may place an unfair and undue burden on employers and the workforce. Big boost to tax lawyers trying to advise payroll clients - because some may interpret the order as an absolute order and struggle to figure out the very vague guidance. Small business owners would not have the resources and be even more confused. Still, some are going to choose to forge ahead and do it anyway - resulting in a loss for everyone involved. A perma elimination as claimed to be promised, would be suicidal. But hey, it's going to be everyone's funeral..

Edited August 29, 2020 by yuna628

[yuna628 9,665]

17 minutes ago, Oliversmom said:

Well I will be 67 in 8 more years.  That is my target retirement age is my health holds out.  Or maybe I will make it to 70.  I love my work and enjoy each day so would like to continue.  Hoping social security is there when I need it.  I want to retire and volunteer full time for animal rescue.  Those are my goals and plans.  But life has a way of changing your plans as we ago along.  So we will see.

Well I feel for you. I can't say it's going to be there in 8 more years, but we can hope. My sister lost her job before the pandemic and thankfully got a solid new one, but it still required her to move a 30+ year old pension into other options for a future retirement that will be in 10-15 years. Stocks have not been kind this year. She never had to 'dip' into that savings as of yet, despite it being a difficult time. Life does have a way of pushing you into different directions than you think they might be heading. Always good to be prepared. 

Edited August 29, 2020 by yuna628

[Ban Hammer 13,276]

40 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Well you could certainly google or use any search engine of your choosing to find it. My search brought up links to fox news, NYT etc, and many many local news stations, followed by many business analysis. I'm not sure which link you'd find the best acceptable. The Chief Actuary gave the hard numbers of what would happen to Social Security. Of course you can find the memorandum via the Treasury Department and the IRS as publication 2020-65. The actual memorandum was directed by the administration and signed on August the 8th.

i don't care that much.  thanks anyways.

[Crtcl Rice Theory 2,432]

2 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

If course it's a copy/paste.  Even with 'Rona going on, I don't have the time to chase down all those details.  

 

Did you skim thru them, or just ignore them because they don't fit your agenda in this thread?

What agenda is that?

[Ban Hammer 13,276]

21 minutes ago, CanAm1980 said:

What agenda is that?

maybe due to this?

13 hours ago, CanAm1980 said:

I will be straight with you. I have the means and the skills to sort out my views and choices on this topic. But thank you, that is a good suggestion.

 

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, Oliversmom said:

Thank you for finding this.  I had read the part about social security being bankrupt in 2023 and that scares the life out of me.  In a few years I will be of social security age if it still exists.  This is why Trump scares me so much.  I'll be honest - I am selfish and my concerns about these people (Trump and Biden) is how they will affect me!  And they both scare me.  But Trump scares me more.  I need social security.  Yes I have savings but I had to go through a lot of them while being unemployed during Covid.  So I NEED my future social security!

Why does Trump "scare you more"?  He has done more good for this country, and cut our taxes once already, than Biden has done in 47 years.  Trump isn't going to take SS away.  He cannot.  Now, the politicians in DC CAN, and HAVE, "borrowed" a lot of money from the SS pool of money, which I feel is unjust to all of us who INVOLUNTARILY are coerced into putting our own money into it.

 

As Yuna pointed out, this deferment is temporary, and will have to be paid back.  Fortunately, I don't think my employer will defer our taxes.  And if they do, all i have to do is set that money aside each month for a few months until they want it back, which is very easy for anyone to do.

[Dashinka 24,420]

On 8/26/2020 at 12:10 AM, Voice of Reason said:

 

Being asked sometimes by people who are on the fence or who aren’t very politically active:

 

“What has @realDonaldTrump done or fixed as President?"

 

It’s a good question deserving of an in depth answer, so here’s a thread listing some of what he’s done in 3 years. Read it all!

 

•This week Trump signed 3 bills for Native people. One gives compensation to the Spokane tribe for loss of their lands in the mid-1900s, one funds Native language programs and the other gives federal recognition to the Little Shell Tribe of Chippewa Indians in Montana

•This month Trump finalized the creation of Space Force as our 6th Military branch

•This month Trump signed a law to make cruelty to animals a federal felony so that animal abusers face tougher consequences

•Violent crime has fallen every year he’s been in office after rising the 2 years before he was elected

•Trump signed bill making CBD and Hemp legal 

•Trump’s EPA gave $100 million to fix the water infrastructure problem in Flint, Michigan

•Under Trump’s leadership, in 2018 the U.S. surpassed Russia and Saudi Arabia to become the world’s largest producer of crude oil

•Trump signed a law ending the gag orders on Pharmacists that prevented them from sharing money saving information

•Trump signed the “Allow States and Victims to Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act” (FOSTA), which includes the “Stop Enabling Sex Traffickers Act” (SESTA) which both give law enforcement and victims new tools to fight sex trafficking

•Trump signed a bill to require airports to provide spaces for breastfeeding Moms

•The 25% lowest-paid Americans enjoyed a 4.5% income boost in November 2019, that outpaces a 2.9% gain in earnings for the country's highest-paid workers

•Low-wage workers are benefiting from higher minimum wages and corporations that are increasing entry-level pay

•Trump signed the biggest wilderness protection & conservation bill in a decade and designated 375,000 acres as protected land

•Trump signed the Save our Seas Act which funds $10 million per year to clean tons of plastic & garbage from the ocean

•He signed a bill this year allowing some drug imports from Canada so that prescription prices would go down

•Trump signed an executive order this year that forces all healthcare providers to disclose the cost of their services so that Americans can comparison shop and know how much less providers charge insurance companies

•When signing that bill he said no American should be blindsided by bills for medical services they never agreed to in advance

•Hospitals will now be required to post their standard charges for services, which include the discounted price a hospital is willing to accept

•In the eight years prior to President Trump’s inauguration, prescription drug prices increased by an average of 3.6% per year. Under Trump drug prices have seen year-over-year declines in nine of the last ten months, with a 1.1% drop as of the most recent month.

•Created a White House VA Hotline to help veterans and principally staffed it with veterans and direct family members of veterans

•VA employees are being held accountable for poor performance, with more than 4,000 VA employees removed, demoted, and suspended so far

•Issued an executive order requiring the Secretaries of Defense, Homeland Security, and Veterans Affairs to submit a joint plan to provide veterans access to access to mental health treatment as they transition to civilian life

•Because of a bill signed and championed by Trump, In 2020, most federal employees will see their pay increase by an average of 3.1% — the largest raise in more than 10 years

•Trump signed into a law up to 12 weeks of paid parental leave for millions of federal workers

•Trump administration will provide HIV prevention drug for free to 200,000 uninsured patients per year for 11 years

•All time record sales during the 2019 holidays

•Trump signed an order allowing small businesses to group together when buying insurance to get a better price

•President Trump signed the Preventing Maternal Deaths Act that provides funding for states to develop maternal mortality reviews to better understand maternal complications and identify solutions & largely focuses on reducing the higher mortality rates for Black Americans

•In 2018, President Trump signed the groundbreaking First Step Act, a criminal justice bill which enacted reforms that make our justice system fairer and help former inmates successfully return to society

•The First Step Act’s reforms addressed inequities in sentencing laws that disproportionately harmed Black Americans and reformed mandatory minimums that created unfair outcomes

•The First Step Act expanded judicial discretion in sentencing of non-violent crimes

•Over 90% of those benefiting from the retroactive sentencing reductions in the First Step Act are Black Americans

•The First Step Act provides rehabilitative programs to inmates, helping them successfully rejoin society and not return to crime

•Trump increased funding for Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) by more than 14%

•Trump signed legislation forgiving Hurricane Katrina debt that threatened HBCUs

•New single-family home sales are up 31.6% in October 2019 compared to just one year ago

•Made HBCUs a priority by creating the position of executive director of the White House Initiative on HBCUs

•Trump received the Bipartisan Justice Award at a historically black college for his criminal justice reform accomplishments

•The poverty rate fell to a 17-year low of 11.8% under the Trump administration as a result of a jobs-rich environment

•Poverty rates for African-Americans and Hispanic-Americans have reached their lowest levels since the U.S. began collecting such data

•Pres. Trump signed a bill that creates five national monuments, expands several national parks, adds 1.3 million acres of wilderness, and permanently reauthorizes the Land and Water Conservation Fund

•Trump’s USDA committed $124 Million to rebuild rural water infrastructure

•Consumer confidence & small business confidence at an all time high 

•More than 7 million jobs created since election

•More Americans are now employed than ever recorded before in our history

•More than 400,000 manufacturing jobs created since his election

•Trump appointed 5 openly gay ambassadors 

•Trump ordered his openly gay ambassador to Germany, Ric Grenell to lead a global initiative to decriminalize homosexuality across the globe

•Through Trump’s Anti-Trafficking Coordination Team (ACTeam) initiative, Federal law enforcement more than doubled convictions of human traffickers and increased the number of defendants charged by 75% in ACTeam districts

•In 2018, the Department of Justice (DOJ) dismantled an organization that was the internet’s leading source of prostitution-related advertisements resulting in sex trafficking.

•Trump’s OMB published new anti-trafficking guidance for government procurement officials to more effectively combat human trafficking

•Trump’s Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s Homeland Security Investigations arrested 1,588 criminals associated with Human Trafficking

•Trump’s Department of Health and Human Services provided funding to support the National Human Trafficking Hotline to identify perpetrators and give victims the help they need

•The hotline identified 16,862 potential human trafficking cases

•Trump’s DOJ provided grants to organizations that support human trafficking victims – serving nearly 9,000 cases from July 1, 2017, to June 30, 2018

•The Department of Homeland Security has hired more victim assistance specialists, helping victims get resources and support

•President Trump has called on Congress to pass school choice legislation so that no child is trapped in a failing school because of his or her zip code

•The President signed funding legislation in September 2018 that increased funding for school choice by $42 million

•The tax cuts signed into law by President Trump promote school choice by allowing families to use 529 college savings plans for elementary and secondary education

•Under his leadership ISIS has lost most of their territory and been largely dismantled

•ISIS leader Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi was killed

•Signed the first Perkins CTE reauthorization since 2006, authorizing more than $1 billion for states each year to fund vocational and career education programs

•Executive order expanding apprenticeship opportunities for students and workers

•President Trump’s issued an Executive Order prohibiting the U.S. government from discriminating against Christians or punishing expressions of faith

•Signed an executive order that allows the government to withhold money from college campuses deemed to be anti-Semitic and who fail to combat anti-Semitism

•President Trump ordered a halt to U.S. tax money going to international organizations that fund or perform abortions

•Trump imposed sanctions on the socialists in Venezuela who have killed their citizens

•Finalized new trade agreement with South Korea

•Made a deal with the European Union to increase U.S. energy exports to Europe

•Withdrew the U.S. from the job killing TPP deal

•Secured $250 billion in new trade and investment deals in China and $12 billion in Vietnam

•OK’d up to $12 billion in aid for farmers affected by unfair trade retaliation

•Has had over a dozen US hostages freed, including those Obama could not get freed

•Trump signed the Music Modernization Act, the biggest change to copyright law in decades

•Trump secured Billions that will fund the building of a wall at our southern border

•The Trump Administration is promoting second chance hiring to give former inmates the opportunity to live crime-free lives and find meaningful employment

•Trump’s DOJ and the BOP launched a new “Ready to Work Initiative” to help connect employers directly with former prisoners

•President Trump’s historic tax cut legislation included new Opportunity Zone Incentives to promote investment in low-income communities across the country

•8,764 communities across the country have been designated as Opportunity Zones

•Opportunity Zones are expected to spur $100 billion in long-term private capital investment in economically distressed communities across the country

•Trump directed the Education Secretary to end Common Core

•Trump signed the 9/11 Victims Compensation Fund into law

•Trump signed measure funding prevention programs for Veteran suicide

•Companies have brought back over a TRILLION dollars from overseas because of the TCJA bill that Trump signed

•Manufacturing jobs growing at the fastest rate in more than 30 years

•Stock Market has reached record highs

•Median household income has hit highest level ever recorded

•African-American unemployment is at an all time low

•Hispanic-American unemployment is at an all time low

•Asian-American unemployment is at an all time low

•Women’s unemployment rate is at a 65 year low

•Youth unemployment is at a 50 year low

•We have the lowest unemployment rate ever recorded for

•The Pledge to America’s Workers has resulted in employers committing to train more than 4 million Americans

•95 percent of U.S. manufacturers are optimistic about the future— the highest ever.

•As a result of the Republican tax bill, small businesses will have the lowest top marginal tax rate in more than 80 years

•Record number of regulations eliminated that hurt small businesses

•Signed welfare reform requiring able-bodied adults who don’t have children to work or look for work if they’re on welfare

•Under Trump, the FDA approved more affordable generic drugs than ever before in history

•Reformed Medicare program to stop hospitals from overcharging low-income seniors on their drugs—saving seniors 100’s of millions of $$$ this year alone

•Signed Right-To-Try legislation allowing terminally ill patients to try experimental treatment that wasn’t allowed before

•Secured $6 billion in new funding to fight the opioid epidemic

•Signed VA Choice Act and VA Accountability Act, expanded VA telehealth services, walk-in-clinics, and same-day urgent primary and mental health care

•U.S. oil production recently reached all-time high so we are less dependent on oil from the Middle East

•The U.S. is a net natural gas exporter for the first time since 1957

•NATO allies increased their defense spending because of his pressure campaign

•Withdrew the United States from the job-killing Paris Climate Accord in 2017 and that same year the U.S. still led the world by having the largest reduction in Carbon emissions

•Has his circuit court judges being confirmed faster than any other new administration

•Had his Supreme Court Justice’s Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh confirmed

•Moved U.S. Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem

•Agreed to a new trade deal with Mexico & Canada that will increase jobs here and $$$ coming in

•Reached a breakthrough agreement with the E.U. to increase U.S. exports

•Imposed tariffs on China in response to China’s forced technology transfer, intellectual property theft, and their chronically abusive trade practices, has agreed to a part 1 trade deal with China

•Signed legislation to improve the National Suicide Hotline

•Signed the most comprehensive childhood cancer legislation ever into law, which will advance childhood cancer research and improve treatments

 

This is just SOME of of the incredible work @realDonaldTrumpand his admin have done in their 3 years so far at the@WhiteHouse. This is why I support him. This is why I’ll vote in 2020 to Keep America Great. If you have uninformed family or friends, show them this thread!

Another upcoming accomplishment to add: In the next week or two Trump will be signing the first major anti-robocall law in decades called the TRACED Act (Telephone Robocall Abuse Criminal Enforcement and Deterrence). I’ll explain the law in the next tweet.

Once it’s law the TRACED Act will extend the period of time the FCC has to catch & punish those who intentionally break telemarketing restrictions. The bill also requires voice service providers to develop a framework to verify calls are legitimate before they reach your phone.

The TRACED Act requires carriers to share tools & the ability to block spam callers with customers for free. It also changes the fine imposed on spam telemarketers from $1,500 to $10,000 PER CALL. Earlier this year Trump’s FCC fined one robocall guy $120 million. Common sense. 😉

 

Another accomplishment I need to add:

•The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act signed into law by Trump doubled the maximum amount of the child tax credit available to parents and lifted the income limits so more people could claim it

•It also created a new tax credit for other dependents

Another couple of accomplishments to add to the list:

•In 2018, President Trump signed into law a $2.4 billion funding increase for the Child Care and Development Fund, providing a total of $8.1 billion to States to fund child care for low-income families

•The Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit (CDCTC) signed into law by Trump provides a tax credit equal to 20-35% of child care expenses, $3,000 per child & $6,000 per family + Flexible Spending Accounts (FSAs) allow you to set aside up to $5,000 in pre-tax $ to use for child care

•In 2019 President Donald Trump signed the Autism Collaboration, Accountability, Research, Education and Support Act (CARES) into law which allocates $1.8 billion in funding over the next five years to help people with autism spectrum disorder and to help their families.

 

 

 

Meanwhile, Joe Biden allowed kids at the pool to play with his hairy legs. 

 

The choice is pretty clear... even Stevie Wonder can see it.

 

By my score it is:

 

Trump +115

Biden —50 (-47 for 47 years in Congress/WH without any actual accomplishments, -1 for the 1994 crime bill, -1 for assuming all black people should think alike, and -1 for the loss of cognitive ability.)

Edited August 29, 2020 by Dashinka

[Dashinka 24,420]

4 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

Why does Trump "scare you more"?  He has done more good for this country, and cut our taxes once already, than Biden has done in 47 years.  Trump isn't going to take SS away.  He cannot.  Now, the politicians in DC CAN, and HAVE, "borrowed" a lot of money from the SS pool of money, which I feel is unjust to all of us who INVOLUNTARILY are coerced into putting our own money into it.

 

As Yuna pointed out, this deferment is temporary, and will have to be paid back.  Fortunately, I don't think my employer will defer our taxes.  And if they do, all i have to do is set that money aside each month for a few months until they want it back, which is very easy for anyone to do.

No doubt, Trump cannot cut payroll taxes on his own.  I believe the last payroll tax cut was in 2010 when the Democrats were all for it.  Personally I don’t think I will ever see SS benefits, which is why I never figure them into any future retirement planning.