Divorve while i751 pending, interview?

[TonyMichael 3]

But we have filed joint tax returns for the past 3 years. 

 

[TonyMichael 3]

12 minutes ago, jakelake said:

Your lawyer is right concerning not sending a letter at this time. You have already filed and should only send a letter if you get an RFE.

 

Because things are not working out now between the two of you does not mean that the marriage was not in good faith.

USCIS is looking for evidence that shows that the marriage was in good faith. What can you provide or explain to USCIS that will help your case? Not being in good terms now does not mean that you were that way when you entered the marriage.

 

Having said that, the question is what attracted you two to each other? You have already stated that you have completely different spending habits. Did you know that coming into the relationship? Did you know that money was spent on alcohol, weed, etc?

 

You mentioned that your spouse is willing to go the interview with you. Are you okay with that? I think that you should file for divorce and wait for a waiver.

 

The question to the VJ community is, even though they are not in good terms now, is it okay for the spouse to go the interview with him even they get a divorce? I think that if they go together and establish that the marriage was in good faith, that is all that matters. If they explain that they are planning on divorcing now, I don't see that as a problem. They did file together when they were in good terms.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, we have not filed i751 yet. I am collecting documents. 

 

I have always known that he is an overspender when we were in a relationship. Of course it would bother me to some extent that he is not a good saver, but it didnt stop me from falling for him. Because you know, you dont marry someone for money. 

I honestly didnt care that he has a bad spending habit. I always felt that if we get married, we can just keep our finances separate.

 

The problem here was not money, but his multiple adultery. But USCS places a huge importance on financial commingling, and that's why I am frightened. 

 

I also think that I should divorce without waiting. But for now, I have to apply jointly because I have about a month left before my GC expiration and our divorce will take st least 6 months because we live in california.  So I will need to switch to divorce waiver later. 

 

 

[TonyMichael 3]

Does USCIS mainly only consider the evidence of marriage you collected AFTER you got your conditional GC? 

 

Dont they consider the whole length of marriage, or before the marriage when it was just a relationship? 

 

My husband and I were in a relationship for 3+ years before marriage and we have lots of pics, text etc together. And we got married, and it has been over 3.5 years. I didnt get my conditional GC until 1.5 years into my marriage. 

 

So all together we will have been together for almost 7 years in a few months, but does USICS only want to consider the past 2 years of marriage after I got my conditional GC? 

 

I hoped they would consider the entire length of the relationship, because the longer a relationship the better it looks compared to a relationship that ended in marriage after 6 months or so, for example. 

 

1) joint lease (all Bills are included in the rent, so we dont have separate bills for utlities)

2) mails to our address 

3) my company life insurance covering both

4) dental insurance covering both 

5) vision insurance covering both

6) health insurance covering both 

7) my 401k with him as the beneficiary 

😎 joint tax returns past 3 years 

9) pics and texts over the past 7 years of relationship and marriage (me, my spouse, and his family. Unfortunately my family doesnt know I'm married because of my sexuality)

10) affidavits from my mother in law and my best friend 

11) my car insurance with him as the beneficiary 

 

This is the evidence I can provide. 

My lawyer said this is "too little".  

 

[Ku Mưa 29]

13 minutes ago, TonyMichael said:

No, we have not filed i751 yet. I am collecting documents. 

 

I have always known that he is an overspender when we were in a relationship. Of course it would bother me to some extent that he is not a good saver, but it didnt stop me from falling for him. Because you know, you dont marry someone for money. 

I honestly didnt care that he has a bad spending habit. I always felt that if we get married, we can just keep our finances separate.

 

The problem here was not money, but his multiple adultery. But USCS places a huge importance on financial commingling, and that's why I am frightened. 

 

I also think that I should divorce without waiting. But for now, I have to apply jointly because I have about a month left before my GC expiration and our divorce will take st least 6 months because we live in california.  So I will need to switch to divorce waiver later. 

 

 

you can file as waiver at the beginning, write explanation letter for them about your marriage and divorce processing. They will ask you divorce decree later. i will have decree at the time that they ask

[Ku Mưa 29]

15 minutes ago, TonyMichael said:

Does USCIS mainly only consider the evidence of marriage you collected AFTER you got your conditional GC? 

 

Dont they consider the whole length of marriage, or before the marriage when it was just a relationship? 

 

My husband and I were in a relationship for 3+ years before marriage and we have lots of pics, text etc together. And we got married, and it has been over 3.5 years. I didnt get my conditional GC until 1.5 years into my marriage. 

 

So all together we will have been together for almost 7 years in a few months, but does USICS only want to consider the past 2 years of marriage after I got my conditional GC? 

 

I hoped they would consider the entire length of the relationship, because the longer a relationship the better it looks compared to a relationship that ended in marriage after 6 months or so, for example. 

 

1) joint lease (all Bills are included in the rent, so we dont have separate bills for utlities)

2) mails to our address 

3) my company life insurance covering both

4) dental insurance covering both 

5) vision insurance covering both

6) health insurance covering both 

7) my 401k with him as the beneficiary 

😎 joint tax returns past 3 years 

9) pics and texts over the past 7 years of relationship and marriage (me, my spouse, and his family. Unfortunately my family doesnt know I'm married because of my sexuality)

10) affidavits from my mother in law and my best friend 

11) my car insurance with him as the beneficiary 

 

This is the evidence I can provide. 

My lawyer said this is "too little".  

 

You were in 3.5 years relationship. That's good for you. My marriage less than a year but i got approved without RFE and interview.

Your evidence is not strong enough. Maybe they will set you an interview.

You have lawyer already, why don't you ask him about your concern?

Edited August 24, 2020 by Ku Mưa

[TonyMichael 3]

Just now, Ku Mưa said:

You were in 3.5 years relationship. That's good for you. My marriage less than a year but i got approve without RFE and interview.

Your evidence is not strong enough. Maybe they will set you an interview

Can you please tell me why our evidence is not strong enough? Is that because we are lacking joint bank account, morgage/loan?

[Ku Mưa 29]

10 minutes ago, TonyMichael said:

Can you please tell me why our evidence is not strong enough? Is that because we are lacking joint bank account, morgage/loan?

Yes. You are missing joint bank, especially credit card or saving account, that will show ownership of assets and joint responsibility.

They won't care about mortgage because you have lease and utility bills already 

[TonyMichael 3]

We actually do have a joint checking account we opened a few months after I got my conditional green card. 

But that's around the time my spouse got fired from his job, and he hasn't worked ever since. 

 

So of course he didnt put money in the joint checking account because he didnt have money to begin with. 

Also I have paid all the bills by myself, because he has no income. So I have been just paying everything from my own checking account.

 

The joint checking account does exist, but there's not much transaction. I put 10-15  every few days and he spends it on his stuff from it. 

So the transactions are thereoften, but it's not like we are both putting money in it and using it together. But this is because like I said, he didnt have income. 

 

 

Should I still submit all the statements? 

Edited August 24, 2020 by TonyMichael

[jakelake 222]

Just file instead now. Make sure that both of you sign the petition. Send what you can. No one here knows what is considered strong. Do not let that deter you.

 

The important thing is to file now. It does not make sense to miss the deadline while waiting on a divorce.

 

When you get the divorce information, then you can give it to USCIS. 

 

You would rather an interview than an outright rejection because you did not file on time. The interview at least gives you a chance to make your case.

[Villanelle 4,122]

For ROC you need to submit evidence for the entire marriage. Not just from when you got the GC- the entire marriage. You can submit stuff from before the marriage if you feel it will help your overall case. Im struggling to find the right words here- basically stuff from before the marriage can not be used as 'proof' but it will be considered in the overall evaluation. So lets say this wasnt a divorce situation- a couple could submit with their joint ROC pictures of when they were dating or a lease they had prior to marriage- along with their current lease during the marriage and photos during the marriage. The current stuff is what is needed and will be used in directly determining the approval or denial. The old stuff is more supporting evidence. It can help paint a picture of things but will not be the direct reason of approval. If you feel you have a difficult case then you can send proof of the relationship from the inception to the end. 

 

Im kind of getting the feeling you are over thinking things and panicking unnecessarily. Can you list out all the evidences you do have or is it just the stuff you listed ? You said you have a lease and not a mortgage. Thats not held against you. Not everyone owns a home. You are not required to own a home. Home ownership is not for everyone. So a joint lease is just as good as a mortgage. You also said all the utilities are built in to the rent. (sounds like a good deal!) So you will want to highlight that because they look for utility bills. Again this is them not putting together the pieces. If you dont send a letter explaining the utilities are included in rent you can expect an RFE asking where are the utilities in which you will have to respond they are included in the rent. Moving on you mention bills being paid (by you) out of an account in only your name. What kind of bills are these since they are not utilities? Credit cards? personal loans? Medical expenses? Car payments? Insurance? You will want to highlight what it was. Show your sole account was used to pay for expenses for both of you. Your spouse is unemployed so all the income you guys have comes from your paychecks. So it shouldnt be hard to show your income was used to support both of you. 

 

The only thing I see missing from the list you posted is bank statements. USCIS will want bank statements. You can send them with no explanation but if you do they most likely will RFE you for an explanation. The goal of ROC is to show- 1)you lived together- you shouldnt have issues with this, 2)  you shared financial responsibilities- this is where the bank accounts come in to play. Joint taxes, joint assets or debts if applicable.   3) shared life experiences - this is shown through photos, trips, affidavits, personal correspondence like cards, gifts, etc, and 4) planned for the future together - this can be wills or 401k beneficiary type stuff. Overall beyond the bank statements the only thing that stands out is your family not knowing about the marriage. That is understandable though and shouldnt be a reason for denial. And thats not really something that would be addressed in the paperwork you are submitting. Perhaps in an interview they may ask about your family/lack of pictures affidavits from them- but they are not going to RFE you for a statement from your parents. You should not include in your package anything about the fact that your family is against the marriage- but if you are asked you have to tell the truth about how things are. 

[TonyMichael 3]

11 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

For ROC you need to submit evidence for the entire marriage. Not just from when you got the GC- the entire marriage. You can submit stuff from before the marriage if you feel it will help your overall case. Im struggling to find the right words here- basically stuff from before the marriage can not be used as 'proof' but it will be considered in the overall evaluation. 

>> Before the marriage, we didnt have much stuff anyway, so i was just going to add pics and texts as supporting evidence. 

 

11 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

 

Can you list out all the evidences you do have or is it just the stuff you listed ?

>> Yes. There might be other things, but only little things like receipts etc.

 

11 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

You said you have a lease and not a mortgage. Thats not held against you. Not everyone owns a home. You are not required to own a home. Home ownership is not for everyone. So a joint lease is just as good as a mortgage. You also said all the utilities are built in to the rent. (sounds like a good deal!) So you will want to highlight that because they look for utility bills. Again this is them not putting together the pieces. If you dont send a letter explaining the utilities are included in rent you can expect an RFE asking where are the utilities in which you will have to respond they are included in the rent. Moving on you mention bills being paid (by you) out of an account in only your name. What kind of bills are these since they are not utilities? Credit cards? personal loans? Medical expenses? Car payments? Insurance? You will want to highlight what it was. Show your sole account was used to pay for expenses for both of you. Your spouse is unemployed so all the income you guys have comes from your paychecks. So it shouldnt be hard to show your income was used to support both of you. 

>>I can write a short letter explaining the utilities are included in the rent.

When I say bills, I'm talking about our phone bills, car insurance payments, our internet cable bills,  and both of our medical bills. I paid almost all these for both myself and my husband, from my checking account. 

So do I have to print my checking account statements and highlight in a marker where I paid all those bills? 

The rent includes only the electricity, water, gas, sewage and trash. 

 

11 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

 

The only thing I see missing from the list you posted is bank statements. USCIS will want bank statements. You can send them with no explanation but if you do they most likely will RFE you for an explanation.

>> but the bank statement, you are talking about the joint bank account statement right? That's what we cannot provide because we haven't used it much because I paid bills and groceries from my own checking account. Or are you talking about my own personal checking account statement? 

 

11 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

 

 

[jakelake 222]

If you have a joint checking account, then send it in!

Unless USCIS asks for a reason, why are you looking for your reasons not to send that in?

It's still a joint checking account even if he did not put money in it. It's still a joint account even if he was fired at around that time.

 

Stop looking for excuses to fail. If you continue to do so, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Villanelle 4,122]

YES. You absolutely send both joint and sole accounts. Some people are able to send a minimal assortment of statements and USCIS is OK with that, but if they arent they will RFE for ALL the statements for the entire marriage.  Because of the specifics of your case I anticipate them wanting all the pages. Yes this is a lot of pages. It is not uncommon for peoples ROC packages to be 5-6 inches thick! Now you may encounter comments saying thats too much or they dont need all the pages. Remember everyones situation is different. A couple that both works and both have their checks auto deposited into a joint account and have auto bill pay service set up may not need to send every statement. Thats them- this is you. My personal opinion- they are going to want all the statements, so send them initially or not get them assembled to be able to respond to an RFE.

 

I think you are getting caught up on the terminology of 'joint'. Joint assets, joint debts, joint accounts. Its about co-mingling. Mingle means to mix or join. Co means the two of you. So they want to see that you guys mix, intermix, combine, join your expenses, assets, and debts. It doesnt have to be 50-50. The accounts or bills can be in one persons name or both names. There is no requirement to bank a certain way. The most common and easiest way to show this is if you guys have a traditional set up of one joint account and you both put all your money in and pay everything out of it. But that set up doesnt work for everyone. And thats fine. You need to show them what your set up is. Again you need to directly explain it because they will not sort through your stack of papers to try to figure it out. Do not use highlighters. The papers are scanned in and the scanner will not pick up highlighter. So if you want to notate something on a statement you need to do it in pen directly on the document. You can either make * or circle transactions or you can make a quick list that says phone bills for both/family plan paid from sole account 2/25, 3/20,4/15.5/20 etc etc. Theres no right or wrong way to do it. You just want whoever is looking at your package to be able to understand it with little effort. 

 

You may want to go through your evidence again and look to include things that maybe you left out because they werent 'in both names'. Whose name is it in does not matter if it benefits both people. For something like proving you share a residence- #1 proof is usually drivers licenses. That shows them you reported the address to a gov agency. It also has your signature on it which they compare to the signature on the form. Your tax return also shows the joint address. You can also show mail addressed to both of you and mail addressed to you both individually. Showing that your spouse receives Sports Illustrated monthly (addressed to him alone) to your address supports the fact that he actually lives there. And then showing the subscription was paid for by a check or debit to your sole account shows a co mingling. 

 

You may have to get creative. It can help to look through your bank statements and see what stands out. When a couple only has one account and its a sole account in only one of their names you really want to highlight how it is used for both of you. There can be a bill in his name but the payments are all made from your account, so you want to show that. If the bills are all in your name and the payments as well you want to show that the bills and purchases were for both your benefit. If you ever made any large purchases- furniture, electronics, stuff like that- that can be used to show 'planning a future together'. Dig around and see if your spouses name is anywhere on the paperwork. For example we had carpet put in when we moved in to our new home. It was paid for out of my husbands sole bank account. But I signed the work order when they came. So I could show both those items as evidence we were both involved. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TonyMichael 3]

1 hour ago, Villanelle said:

YES. You absolutely send both joint and sole accounts. Some people are able to send a minimal assortment of statements and USCIS is OK with that, but if they arent they will RFE for ALL the statements for the entire marriage.  Because of the specifics of your case I anticipate them wanting all the pages. Yes this is a lot of pages. It is not uncommon for peoples ROC packages to be 5-6 inches thick! Now you may encounter comments saying thats too much or they dont need all the pages. Remember everyones situation is different. A couple that both works and both have their checks auto deposited into a joint account and have auto bill pay service set up may not need to send every statement. Thats them- this is you. My personal opinion- they are going to want all the statements, so send them initially or not get them assembled to be able to respond to an RFE.

 

I think you are getting caught up on the terminology of 'joint'. Joint assets, joint debts, joint accounts. Its about co-mingling. Mingle means to mix or join. Co means the two of you. So they want to see that you guys mix, intermix, combine, join your expenses, assets, and debts. It doesnt have to be 50-50. The accounts or bills can be in one persons name or both names. There is no requirement to bank a certain way. The most common and easiest way to show this is if you guys have a traditional set up of one joint account and you both put all your money in and pay everything out of it. But that set up doesnt work for everyone. And thats fine. You need to show them what your set up is. Again you need to directly explain it because they will not sort through your stack of papers to try to figure it out. Do not use highlighters. The papers are scanned in and the scanner will not pick up highlighter. So if you want to notate something on a statement you need to do it in pen directly on the document. You can either make * or circle transactions or you can make a quick list that says phone bills for both/family plan paid from sole account 2/25, 3/20,4/15.5/20 etc etc. Theres no right or wrong way to do it. You just want whoever is looking at your package to be able to understand it with little effort. 

 

You may want to go through your evidence again and look to include things that maybe you left out because they werent 'in both names'. Whose name is it in does not matter if it benefits both people. For something like proving you share a residence- #1 proof is usually drivers licenses. That shows them you reported the address to a gov agency. It also has your signature on it which they compare to the signature on the form. Your tax return also shows the joint address. You can also show mail addressed to both of you and mail addressed to you both individually. Showing that your spouse receives Sports Illustrated monthly (addressed to him alone) to your address supports the fact that he actually lives there. And then showing the subscription was paid for by a check or debit to your sole account shows a co mingling. 

 

You may have to get creative. It can help to look through your bank statements and see what stands out. When a couple only has one account and its a sole account in only one of their names you really want to highlight how it is used for both of you. There can be a bill in his name but the payments are all made from your account, so you want to show that. If the bills are all in your name and the payments as well you want to show that the bills and purchases were for both your benefit. If you ever made any large purchases- furniture, electronics, stuff like that- that can be used to show 'planning a future together'. Dig around and see if your spouses name is anywhere on the paperwork. For example we had carpet put in when we moved in to our new home. It was paid for out of my husbands sole bank account. But I signed the work order when they came. So I could show both those items as evidence we were both involved. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm more and more frightened now because of (possibly) little things. 

 

Unfortunately, my husband doesnt drive and he only has a ID, and I have a drivers license but they show a different address because he got his ID when he was visiting his family for a few months. 

Now, we both live together. I changed both of our addresses to our current address in DMV website a few weeks ago, but on the actual cards we have, they show different addresses. 

 

After he cheated on me multiple times, we were temporarily separated to see if we actually want to be together. That's when he got his ID. Then we decided to get back together and start living together.

During that time, he was jobless. 

So our joint bank account looks like I put money in so he can spend and it comes from my then address, and he spends it in another address.

That's another reason I am frightened. Is separation like that (about half a year) fatal factor for I751? Or can I explain this in a letter? 

 

 

In addition to the list I mentioned, I'm going to add:

-Mails addressed to both of us individually (but show the same address)

-Mails addressed to both of us together 

-phone line together 

-receipts for the rings and some more from our dates

-plane tickets, movie tickets, theme park tickets etc 

-photos from BEFORE the marriage (I decided to include them as supporting documents because it at least can show that we just didnt meet and got married right away. Instead we actually spent a lot of time together before marriage)

 

I cant think of any more. 

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by TonyMichael

[Villanelle 4,122]

Ok so this is probably why your attny said you have a weak case....

 

Can you list out a timeline of your relationship so we can compare it against the evidence you have. Date you started dating, date of marriage, dates you actually lived together, dates you were separated etc etc. Its important to remember that bonafide does not mean 'happy', it means legitimate. Legitimate marriages can be unhappy ones, they can have problems. You have to show the marriage was legit. That you entered it with the intentions of being married and not just to get immigration benefits. So if you can list out the timeline and where the proof you have falls in to it it will be helpful. You most likely are going to need a solid letter of explanation because the proof you have is scattered since it was a rocky relationship- but being rocky doesnt mean it wasnt real.