I-551 Stamp with a very old denial letter

[geowrian 22,337]

2 hours ago, Alexmat1 said:

I went to an attorney first time, and she said we should file I-751 before the 2 year deadline on Conditional card comes up. Now I know if its a waiver case, I can wait to get all the evidences and not have to necessarily be within the 2 year deadline (which only applies to joint filers). 

If you are doing a waiver, you can file before the 90 day filing period (at the end of the 2 year card's validity).

If you file with a waiver after the expiration of the 2 year green card, you don't need to include a reason for the late filing. That said, one should not wait to file until after their card expires to file...USCIS and the immigration court has no way to know the reason you haven't filed yet. All they would know was that you didn't file, and they can act accordingly.

 

2 hours ago, Alexmat1 said:

1) File the I-751 with the basic forms and I can submit evidences later ? Or better I can take a week to collect all evidences and send in a complete package.

2) Yes I keep checking the automated line to see if there is any order and I did that yesterday and after entering the A number, it said no records found - I believe no actions yet ? 

3) Would you know after re-filing the I-751, should I also wait for the Bio metrics to be completed before getting a stamp ? Or can I get a stamp with the extension letter , not do the biometrics now (if I get an appointment can I reschedule it to after I return back into the country) ? 

4) What is the usual time period to receive the extension letter - Is it like a month after filing.

5) Am I out of status from 2016 till I refile I-751 again ? In which case would that cause a problem at re-entry to US after travel (even if I have a fresh I-551 stamp). Would I face the 3 or 10 year ban ? I was under the understanding even with a denial I am still a LPR and thus not out of status.

6) Assuming I refile I-751 and get a fresh I-551 stamp, is there any OTHER RISK to travelling out of the country for 3 weeks that is immigration related. Can I be denied entry for any reason that I haven't anticipated here (no criminal record).

7) Its 2 years that I left it hanging, as the divorce was completed it 2018 when I got the divorce decree. Still I admit I should have got to this before. I was drawn into an appeal case after my divorce which consumed all my focus.

1) Main thing is to file with all required documents, although it's better to file a full packet with plenty of supporting evidence upfront.

2) Correct

3) You should be able to get a stamp with just the NOA1 (extension letter). Biometyics can be rescheduled if needed. Biometrics timelines are unpredictable right now due to local office closures still and backlogs.

4) We filed ROC and it arrived at the lockbox on 7/30. Extension letter arrived in the mail yesterday. This seems pretty consistent (actually slower than many) with most cases based on the August monthly filer's thread.

5) Out of status? Depends who you ask specifically for a technical answer...USCIS would generally say you conditional status has been revoked. That said, per BIA rulings, you are entitled to evidence of LPR status and are in every way the same as every other LPR unless an immigration judge revoked your status. You can keep working and travel (with a valid I-551 stamp) exactly the same as every other LPR. No to the unlawful presence bans. As noted, expect to be sent through secondary when returning from abroad.

6) Theoretically yes...only USCs* are guaranteed entry. But realistically, you would be the same as any other LPR, except to expect the trip through secondary inspection.

[Boiler 45,464]

There is a significant difference in arguing technicalities if you are in country vs outside and trying to get n.

[Alexmat1 9]

I take the combined wisdom from this forum.

I am going to re apply I-751 and get the I-797. I called USCIS and they told they can only allow visit to get stamp if there is a emergency or job offer that needs a stamp. But I will cross that bridge after I get the I-797.

Based on what I read here, a few queries if the experts can help me understand these better:

 

1) After I get the stamp and travel back into US, can CBP have an issue that I was without any action/proof of residence from the date I got denial (2016) till now ? The letter says I have to wait for NTA and so I could say that is what I did. There is no requirement that I should re file another I-751 (as per USCIS letter) although I agree that is what I should have done than wait for NTA. So can the CBP take an issue regarding my inaction between 2016 to now ? 

 

2) What happens in Secondary  - @mindthegap commented that I would be processed in through secondary. Is there more grilling or is it a station where they check details on their computer system and stamp you back in ? 

 

Thanks everyone

[mindthegap 2,590]

29 minutes ago, Alexmat1 said:

 

1) After I get the stamp and travel back into US, can CBP have an issue that I was without any action/proof of residence from the date I got denial (2016) till now ? The letter says I have to wait for NTA and so I could say that is what I did. There is no requirement that I should re file another I-751 (as per USCIS letter) although I agree that is what I should have done than wait for NTA. So can the CBP take an issue regarding my inaction between 2016 to now ? 

 

No.

They care about your status at that time. Regardless, technically you remained a LPR despite the scary USCIS denial letter. 

You could just have not filed in the first place and only be filing now, and you would still be legal - filing with a divorce waiver is permitted at any time, even after the expiry of the card, provided it is before a final order of removal by an immigration judge (which you do not have):

 

 

Had you not filed in the first place and only be filing for the first time now, you would be in exactly the same situation - with a denial letter, only for failure to file, rather than failing to respond to the RFE with the required divorce decree, and awaiting the same NTA that may take years to arrive.

 

 

 

29 minutes ago, Alexmat1 said:

2) What happens in Secondary  - @mindthegap commented that I would be processed in through secondary. Is there more grilling or is it a station where they check details on their computer system and stamp you back in ? 

Passport swiped (i suggest paperclipping it open on the stamp page), stamp visually inspected, and if you have it your expired card swiped  (which I suggest you present as it speeds it up).

As I posted previously, the stamp will have your new receipt number, your A#, and be annotated 'TC-1' - indicating you are a spouse of a US citizen that has been denied/reopened. 

Officer will probably ask how long you have been out of the US,  ask you to look into the camera, take your fingerprint(s), and then the officer will place your passport in a clear folder and escort you to the secondary immigration room next to luggage claim.

You usually have to leave any larger carry on cases by the door.

 

Sit down, wait a bit - longest I have waited is ten mins  - while they will run your details to verify your current status.

They then call you over to give you your passport, which will be dated and stamped in as LPR or ARC (normal entry) and usually accompanied by a 'welcome home'.

Only once I was asked if I had received a court date, NTA, or letter (I have not) as they could see I had a denial but that is the extent of the questioning I have received in all my re-entries since my denial and refile. 

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by mindthegap

[da95826 387]

Note the standard NOA extension letter is good to extend your conditional green card by 18 months from it's expiration date. If that is the case with new the NOA from new i751 application you will need the i551 stamp as an extension letter will have expired already with such an old conditional green card. 

 

Make sure that the extension letter fits your special needs given the exceptional long period of time since the expiration of CGC. I would plan on getting a stamp when you get all ducks in a row. 

[Alexmat1 9]

7 hours ago, mindthegap said:

Had you not filed in the first place and only be filing for the first time now, you would be in exactly the same situation - with a denial letter, only for failure to file

You mentioned that with a waiver , LPR can file anytime before deportation. If so even if I never filed before and am filing now, why would I be denied for failure to file ? I should be fine filing now - trying to understand the law that you had mentioned.

 

7 hours ago, mindthegap said:

and if you have it your expired card swiped  (which I suggest you present as it speeds it up).

I read that USCIS grabs your old GC in exchange for stamping your passport ? Or can I request to keep the GC along with the stamp on Passport ? 

 

Thanks @mindthegapfor the clarity in this matter. You outright beat some of the attorneys out there. I have been given incorrect advise based on my consult with a couple of them as to how to correct this.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Alexmat1

[mindthegap 2,590]

7 hours ago, Alexmat1 said:

You mentioned that with a waiver , LPR can file anytime before deportation. If so even if I never filed before and am filing now, why would I be denied for failure to file ? I should be fine filing now - trying to understand the law that you had mentioned.

I mean that if you had never filed in the first place by the expiry of your GC- intending to file after your divorce was final -  you would have received a denial for failure to file by the expiry of your GC and an NTA at *some* point - putting you in exactly the same position you are in now (filing with a denial letter received).

Thats how you will be ok with the course of action you are now undertaking - it is expressly permitted to file at any time (the screengrab I posted is from the current I-751 instructions). Leaving the US with a denial, a pending NTA and no filing...not so clearcut, and honestly not worth the risk. 

 

7 hours ago, Alexmat1 said:

I read that USCIS grabs your old GC in exchange for stamping your passport ? Or can I request to keep the GC along with the stamp on Passport ? 

Some do, some don't. I have mine - I don't present it when I get my stamp renewed in case they take it away, only when I re-enter the US.

 

7 hours ago, Alexmat1 said:

Thanks @mindthegapfor the clarity in this matter. You outright beat some of the attorneys out there. I have been given incorrect advise based on my consult with a couple of them as to how to correct this.

No worries, 

Not all attorneys are created equal...but please remember I am not your attorney and only giving advice based on my direct experience and others I have encountered.

All the information is out there if you look for it.

 

Out of curiosity, what did they tell you to do?

 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by mindthegap

[Alexmat1 9]

4 hours ago, mindthegap said:

I mean that if you had never filed in the first place by the expiry of your GC- intending to file after your divorce was final -  you would have received a denial for failure to file by the expiry of your GC and an NTA at *some* point

This confusing. I read the screen grab you put earlier, and it says there is no timeline if its a waiver filing , as long as its before NTA. And it makes sense - Divorce cases drag out and its a waste of money and time (in my case I spend a couple of grands for attorney fees the first time) when attorney would have known it wont go forward without the divorce decree which no one had a clue when it would come. In fact in the earlier years, if you were going through a divorce, you couldnt file I-751 until the divorce was done (This is what I read somewhere). Later the policy was changed to allow filing of I-751 so that people in that situation can still get paperwork to travel/work etc. Earlier they were in a limbo.

Given that, it would be prudent to wait for divorce to complete, get divorce decree and submit everything to USCIS. And as in my case, the GC would expire by then. So why would USCIS penalize someone for filing after expiry of GC, when they know even if they did before GC expired, they wouldnt have the divorce decree for some time and its a waste of time for the applicant, USCIS etc to process the paperwork and deny. Unless they are hungry for that filing fees twice 🙂

[Alexmat1 9]

4 hours ago, mindthegap said:

Out of curiosity, what did they tell you to do?

I was told mine is very complicated with a denial and they would need 4-5000 dollars to refile. Another said you cannot refile again and the only way is to push and harass the USCIS to send an NTA soon. So he said we have to open a motion in court to compel them to do so. 

I wish I had known about VJ the first time I applied. Would have saved 2k dollars when money was hard. 

[Alexmat1 9]

While researching I found this on a reputed legal site (nolo)

Filing the late I-751 did not completely reinstate your conditional resident status, however, and, if your petition is denied and you must leave the country and then try to return, you might be hit with a three-year ban for the time you spent in the U.S. between the expiration of your resident card and (at least) your actual I-751 filing date.
 

Thus in my case if I file, get I-551 stamp and leave right after the stamp, can the I-751 be denied because it lacks some evidence or proof (without asking for RFE). Or can they flatly deny for whatever reason. So if that happens while I am abroad, on returning, would I be hit with the 10 year ban (because my earlier I-751 was denied in  2016 and I am reapplying I-751 in 2020 and between 2016 - 2020 I was unlawfully present here) ? 

 

1) In short can USCIS deny I-751 without even asking for RFE ?

2) If they deny and I am abroad , on returning back am I considered unlawfully present between 2016-20 and thus banner for 10 years ? 

 

[mindthegap 2,590]

Rubbish.

 

 

[Alexmat1 9]

7 hours ago, mindthegap said:

Rubbish.

 

 

Does that mean its a wrong info. So if one has filed for I-751 (after a earlier denial)  and is outside the country travelling, and the second I-751 gets denied again during that time, they wont be considered out of status since the first denial ? I understand the second I-751 puts you back in status while its being processed, but would its denial too mean that all the time after first denial was unlawful ? Being in the US is different but once you travel out and re enter , that is when the unlawful determination applies.

[Orangesapples 1,954]

56 minutes ago, Alexmat1 said:

Does that mean its a wrong info. So if one has filed for I-751 (after a earlier denial)  and is outside the country travelling, and the second I-751 gets denied again during that time, they wont be considered out of status since the first denial ? I understand the second I-751 puts you back in status while its being processed, but would its denial too mean that all the time after first denial was unlawful ? Being in the US is different but once you travel out and re enter , that is when the unlawful determination applies.

You're a legal permanent resident until the court takes away your permanent residency. So a denial of I-751 doesn't mean you're out of status. 

[Guido51 9]

im curious about same case.

my i751 is denied and i refiled (waiver) and i have a stamp

can i travel with stamp while new i751 is pending? lawyers said no