Refusal due to section 212(a)5

[Nockideetah 5]

2 hours ago, Stephanie&Sofiane said:

We listed his previous and present employers, both are mobile phone shops where he does repairs. Our marriage certificate lists him as a phone technician. 

Before the interview our attorney told us to not be taken aback if they act hostile during the interview,,,but they were friendly to him so he thought the interview was going well. Also when we went to the embassy for permission to marry, the man who took our oath and granted permission was very friendly. He seemed genuinely happy for us and the other couple there. So I thought no worries... When they asked my husband to see the booklet of pictures of us he had with him, they told him to wait a few minutes. He said they looked at our pictures and were smiling, said a few nice things about them, then called him back over and he was given the refusal. That's when the woman interviewing (wonder if they had the same one) told him his wife will know everything in 6 or 7 weeks. He thought weeks, he said it might have been months but he couldn't really focus after that because everything had been going so well he thought,,he was as surprised as me when he called me after.

It's definitely frustrating especially when there is no reason given yet. But our attorney did say we should know in weeks, not months, so hopefully.

Did you marry in Tunisia, and if so did you also have an easy time when you got permission? Your timeline looks fast. We married April 2018 but didn't apply until October 2018, approved for I 130 that month, everything was sent to NVC around October 2019, then covid-19 came along and we got the interview notice in August. I've been to Tunisia twice and spent about 2 months at the family home both times, I was going to go in March but the borders closed. I was planning to go after the interview to see my in-laws again and we could come back together. Now just waiting on that too so we know if I'm going to visit or to stay. It's hard to understand when everything was great with the process until the interview 😕 I just hope they really do give everyone a chance to respond in 30 days before deciding. 

 

Was there any new information he disclosed during his interview in regards to his or your employment? My husband felt the interview went well too but she handed him the refusal. He asked for the reason and the officer shrugged her shoulder and told home to tell me to contact NVC. He also contacted the embassy later and talked with the supervisor who told him to wait 8 weeks and we would hear from NVC. We got married in October of last year and filed in January. When we went for permission they were nice about it and they even congratulated us. 
Another person recieved a refusal for the same thing a few days ago and he thinks it’s because of his age and the one visit his wife went to see him. He also stated his wife lost his job and so I question that. 
I’m wondering if it’s possible to that the embassy could use 212(a)5 for other reasons. I also wonder why just recently these refusals have been happening? 

[Transcom123 10]

22 hours ago, Stephanie&Sofiane said:

Hello, I'm sorry you and your husband are going through this. My husband, also Tunisian, had his interview last week at the Embassy in Tunis and we were given the same refusal. On the section 212(a)(5) it simply says our case is returned to the USCIS for further processing. Our attorney has emailed the Embassy to ask for a specific reason, but hasn't had a reply yet. She told us that the US Embassy in Tunisia is very difficult, especially if there have been prior marriages. In our situation I have previously been married. I contacted the NVC this week and the representative kindly offered to check the notes to see if she could provide more information, but all she could see was Being sent to USCIS for final decision.

 

We are incredibly confused too, as well as stressed, sad... everything has been fine until the interview. Have either of you had previous marriages, or previous visas,or sponsorship of someone on a visa? We are waiting for an explanation and to see what we need to do next. The attorney said typically the USCIS will send a notice of intention to revoke the case and then the couple has 30 days to respond. Her advice to us is to keep getting more information together to prove our marriage is sincere and be ready to reply back with everything. 

 

I will be checking back on your post, and if I find anything new and helpful will share it. Wishing you both good, we know how you are feeling right now.

Hello so if im divorced from non american woman and my wife is divorces too we will not be able to get the visa ? My occupation is listen on my pport  and i have my my paystabs my tranning cert from the work , we will get denied ???

[Chancy 6,241]

26 minutes ago, Transcom123 said:

Hello so if im divorced from non american woman and my wife is divorces too we will not be able to get the visa ? My occupation is listen on my pport  and i have my my paystabs my tranning cert from the work , we will get denied ???

 

You won't know until you apply.  The people here can't tell you what the consulate will decide on your case.  Only the officers at the consulate can.

 

[Transcom123 10]

Just now, Chancy said:

 

You won't know until you apply.  The people here can't tell you what the consulate will decide on your case.  Only the officers at the consulate can.

 

this is only insane 

[Stephanie&Sofiane 19]

5 hours ago, Transcom123 said:

Hello so if im divorced from non american woman and my wife is divorces too we will not be able to get the visa ? My occupation is listen on my pport  and i have my my paystabs my tranning cert from the work , we will get denied ??

Hello, I don't think it means you automatically don't get it, no. Our attorney just said the American embassy in Tunisia can be more difficult if one or both have been previously and if other visas were involved. For me, I was married to someone before who was in the US in a visa. But I did not sponsor him to come here, he was sponsored by his uncle. He was on a student visa and once he graduated school he would likely have not had an issue with changing his status for a work visa with his uncle's company. Our attorney said immigration might want to look more at that marriage and verify it was bona fide. I don't know if this is why he got refused, or part of the reason, or if it is an issue for everyone with a similar history. We were married 4 years and no longer together we'll before I met my husband, so if it's part of the issue I hope giving them that type of information helps. I hope all is good for you and your wife!

[Stephanie&Sofiane 19]

16 hours ago, Nockideetah said:

Was there any new information he disclosed during his interview in regards to his or your employment? My husband felt the interview went well too but she handed him the refusal. He asked for the reason and the officer shrugged her shoulder and told home to tell me to contact NVC. He also contacted the embassy later and talked with the supervisor who told him to wait 8 weeks and we would hear from NVC. We got married in October of last year and filed in January. When we went for permission they were nice about it and they even congratulated us. 
Another person recieved a refusal for the same thing a few days ago and he thinks it’s because of his age and the one visit his wife went to see him. He also stated his wife lost his job and so I question that. 
I’m wondering if it’s possible to that the embassy could use 212(a)5 for other reasons. I also wonder why just recently these refusals have been happening? 

I'm wondering too why there are these kinds of refusals now, I don't know if it has any relation to the public charge rule even though public charge also isn't mentioned on ours. It just seems like there is a lot of difficulty now in regards to money and working. He didn't tell them anything new but he also said they only asked him if he could repair phones here, he said yes of course. He was going to explain that he's also willing to find any type of job when he gets until he can do something more,,but he wasn't given much time to talk after answers. I read online that if it says further processing, they might suspect marriage fraud or think that the USCIS was wrong to approve the I 130..we are going crazy wondering what she perceived as wrong,and just waiting to hopefully get that chance to respond to the USCIS. I will need to read through and see the other that was refused,,,my husband was the 9th of 10 people interviewing when he went, everyone who interviewed before him was approved. We're happy for them but sure wondering what was wrong with his interview or our case in their eyes.

[Transcom123 10]

2 hours ago, Stephanie&Sofiane said:

I'm wondering too why there are these kinds of refusals now, I don't know if it has any relation to the public charge rule even though public charge also isn't mentioned on ours. It just seems like there is a lot of difficulty now in regards to money and working. He didn't tell them anything new but he also said they only asked him if he could repair phones here, he said yes of course. He was going to explain that he's also willing to find any type of job when he gets until he can do something more,,but he wasn't given much time to talk after answers. I read online that if it says further processing, they might suspect marriage fraud or think that the USCIS was wrong to approve the I 130..we are going crazy wondering what she perceived as wrong,and just waiting to hopefully get that chance to respond to the USCIS. I will need to read through and see the other that was refused,,,my husband was the 9th of 10 people interviewing when he went, everyone who interviewed before him was approved. We're happy for them but sure wondering what was wrong with his interview or our case in their eyes.

Many persons were denied those days under this but we reach to the embassy looks forv3 factors , age gap, sponsorship , visits number , the applicant pport occupation ,  your husband said his pprt is with daily labor which is weak occuption in Tunisia , so they are lookin to the prior marriages , we have a friend his wife is unempolyed cuz of covid , 18 years age gap she isnt his sponsor and got married on the first visit , each case is different , other persons got their visa even with 22 years age gap the wife is the only sponsor , got married on the second visa .... crazy but true ...

8 hours ago, Chancy said:

 

You won't know until you apply.  The people here can't tell you what the consulate will decide on your case.  Only the officers at the consulate can.

 

We applied btw

[SalishSea 17,791]

Tunisia is a high fraud/high risk country.  Lack of time spent in person/minimal visits/marrying on the first visit also do not help your cases.

[Stephanie&Sofiane 19]

1 hour ago, Jorgedig said:

Tunisia is a high fraud/high risk country.  Lack of time spent in person/minimal visits/marrying on the first visit also do not help your cases.

True, I know it is among countries labeled high fraud but it would obviously be unfair to stereotype and assume for each couple. I've known many couples approved (spouses from various countries) who married on the first visit and spent maximum two weeks together, so I don't think amount of time is always counted against a couple. My husband and I married on our first visit after months of talking online and through calls. I spent two months in Tunisia, twice. I was supposed to be there another two months starting end of March this year it the borders closed before I was to travel. Not saying they would, but the officials should understand it's not easy to make frequent visits  to another country when you work and can't take much time off,,, I basically went in between employment or when taking time off to finish graduate classes since it was online. Meeting in person is important as our attorney told me, but there is no specific guideline for how often or how long that must be. Most people do marry on the first visit if not doing a K1 because it can be difficult to spend the time and money for travel,,more practical to do it when you meet if you don't feel different about each other once you are finally together in person,,,in my opinion.

Arab and Muslim countries in general are given greater scrutiny, I understand that and that is why I found an immigration attorney to help us through the process. I would recommend using an attorney to everyone.

[Stephanie&Sofiane 19]

2 hours ago, Jorgedig said:

Tunisia is a high fraud/high risk country.  Lack of time spent in person/minimal visits/marrying on the first visit also do not help your cases.

Also, have you shared more of your story anywhere... I see you were pen friends in 1985, then met in person in 1991? It sounds interesting! 

[Stephanie&Sofiane 19]

20 hours ago, Transcom123 said:

Many persons were denied those days under this but we reach to the embassy looks forv3 factors , age gap, sponsorship , visits number , the applicant pport occupation ,  your husband said his pprt is with daily labor which is weak occuption in Tunisia , so they are lookin to the prior marriages , we have a friend his wife is unempolyed cuz of covid , 18 years age gap she isnt his sponsor and got married on the first visit , each case is different , other persons got their visa even with 22 years age gap the wife is the only sponsor , got married on the second visa .... crazy but true ...

We applied btw

 

20 hours ago, Transcom123 said:

Many persons were denied those days under this but we reach to the embassy looks forv3 factors , age gap, sponsorship , visits number , the applicant pport occupation ,  your husband said his pprt is with daily labor which is weak occuption in Tunisia , so they are lookin to the prior marriages , we have a friend his wife is unempolyed cuz of covid , 18 years age gap she isnt his sponsor and got married on the first visit , each case is different , other persons got their visa even with 22 years age gap the wife is the only sponsor , got married on the second visa .... crazy but true ...

We applied btw

 

20 hours ago, Transcom123 said:

Many persons were denied those days under this but we reach to the embassy looks forv3 factors , age gap, sponsorship , visits number , the applicant pport occupation ,  your husband said his pprt is with daily labor which is weak occuption in Tunisia , so they are lookin to the prior marriages , we have a friend his wife is unempolyed cuz of covid , 18 years age gap she isnt his sponsor and got married on the first visit , each case is different , other persons got their visa even with 22 years age gap the wife is the only sponsor , got married on the second visa .... crazy but true ...

We applied btw

I know couples approved too where the woman is much older, and it always draws more attention when the woman is older, for any couple 🙂 I am older than my husband, I asked the attorney about how much this is scrutinized,,he said sure it will catch there attention but ultimately they will factor in other things such as what you have in common, do you share a religion, are you planning a family if you are able to...so we haven't been too concerned about age given our commonalities and we do want a child. 

We do have a joint sponsor because I was finishing graduate school and my income for 2017 and 2018 was low, but 2019 normal,,,but of course they go by the previous 3 years. I was worried it has to do with the joint sponsor but if it did, wouldn't the public charge rule be cited as the refusal, not 212a5? My mother is our joint sponsor, I was hoping it would show that yes we have family support given that one of my parents is the joint sponsor,,,they actually care. Then again I know immigration can't go by emotions. Years ago I knew someone appealing a ban on her husband (totally different case he had overstayed a Visa before getting married) and when she wrote the appeal she mentioned the serious depression symptoms she was experiencing as one of the reasons they should consider that it is hardship for them to be apart. Of course she included practical reasons too having to do with finances, work etc. And in their response they mentioned that depression was something she should treat but not applicable to hardship. I can somewhat understand their perspective but in reality there is the human aspect that you have families away from each other, spouses trying to make their lives together and it is an emotional situation...

And I think the day labor was the original poster, my husband has phone technician listed on our marriage certificate, our permission sheet from the embassy, and our applications. Do you have any idea how that career is viewed in Tunisia? You said day labor is a weak occupation.I'm just so confused in general because from everything I've read and what the attorneys have said labor rules should not apply to a spouse. That would make sense because as a spouse they would be a permanent resident and therefore have every right to have any type of job here.

I would think yes they may want more information on my previous marriage which would be easy to provide.

It's just also confusing, so like everybody else we will wait and find the reason, just seems concerning to me that a number of people are getting the same type of refusal recently so I just hope everyone gets their chance to respond to the concerns.

Good luck with your case also!

Edited September 26, 2020 by Stephanie&Sofiane

[Nockideetah 5]

1 hour ago, Stephanie&Sofiane said:

Also, have you shared more of your story anywhere... I see you were pen friends in 1985, then met in person in 1991? It sounds interesting! 

I wish I could meet someone who’s actually experience this who’s from Tunisia.

[SalishSea 17,791]

1 hour ago, Stephanie&Sofiane said:

Also, have you shared more of your story anywhere... I see you were pen friends in 1985, then met in person in 1991? It sounds interesting! 

Thank you 🙂   Yup, we were.  Long before the internet was around, having penpals was popular for kids.  

[Transcom123 10]

On 9/26/2020 at 4:32 PM, Stephanie&Sofiane said:

 

 

I know couples approved too where the woman is much older, and it always draws more attention when the woman is older, for any couple 🙂 I am older than my husband, I asked the attorney about how much this is scrutinized,,he said sure it will catch there attention but ultimately they will factor in other things such as what you have in common, do you share a religion, are you planning a family if you are able to...so we haven't been too concerned about age given our commonalities and we do want a child. 

We do have a joint sponsor because I was finishing graduate school and my income for 2017 and 2018 was low, but 2019 normal,,,but of course they go by the previous 3 years. I was worried it has to do with the joint sponsor but if it did, wouldn't the public charge rule be cited as the refusal, not 212a5? My mother is our joint sponsor, I was hoping it would show that yes we have family support given that one of my parents is the joint sponsor,,,they actually care. Then again I know immigration can't go by emotions. Years ago I knew someone appealing a ban on her husband (totally different case he had overstayed a Visa before getting married) and when she wrote the appeal she mentioned the serious depression symptoms she was experiencing as one of the reasons they should consider that it is hardship for them to be apart. Of course she included practical reasons too having to do with finances, work etc. And in their response they mentioned that depression was something she should treat but not applicable to hardship. I can somewhat understand their perspective but in reality there is the human aspect that you have families away from each other, spouses trying to make their lives together and it is an emotional situation...

And I think the day labor was the original poster, my husband has phone technician listed on our marriage certificate, our permission sheet from the embassy, and our applications. Do you have any idea how that career is viewed in Tunisia? You said day labor is a weak occupation.I'm just so confused in general because from everything I've read and what the attorneys have said labor rules should not apply to a spouse. That would make sense because as a spouse they would be a permanent resident and therefore have every right to have any type of job here.

I would think yes they may want more information on my previous marriage which would be easy to provide.

It's just also confusing, so like everybody else we will wait and find the reason, just seems concerning to me that a number of people are getting the same type of refusal recently so I just hope everyone gets their chance to respond to the concerns.

Good luck with your case also!

This is my whats app (removed)

Or ask sofien about me and let us have a mutual conversation , sofien knows me just ask him tell him my name which is manef

Edited October 1, 2020 by Unlockable

[Transcom123 10]

1 minute ago, Zack36 said:

I would not put personal information or phone number out here.i would rather email that person in private.just for the privacy and safety 

You right