Abandoning K1 Visa and going with CR1

[scabrera3175 1]

Hi everyone:

 

I hope everyone is safe and well during these crazy times. This is my first post on VJ, so please offer any honest advice you can give. I always read posts from here, so I know how helpful others can be, especially in a topic like this, where I personally don't know much about. Long story short, I met my fiance in Japan in February of this year. I'm gonna skip the cheesy stuff, but we fell in love. I was on a study abroad program in Japan, studying Japanese for a year. But then the pandemic hit and instead of staying in Japan until October like I intended to, I was forced to evacuate in March and go back home (NYC; which at the time, was literally the epicenter of COVID in the world). We had planned on staying together until my time was up in October and then applying for the K1 visa to give our relationship more time. With such short notice, I had to pack my things and tie up loose ends, and we decided to just apply for the K1 visa when we were ready. We knew we wanted to be together for the long haul, but didn't know by what means was the best way. We didn't think about the CR1 path so seriously at the time. We submitted the K1 visa in June and are waiting.  However, I keep reading the news, VJ posts, and reddit and have just become discouraged about my decision to have done the K1 visa in the first place. At the time of application, we thought it was the best option since we read that CR1 took much longer and we didn't want to be separated for long. If we had known how things would have turned out, we would have done our best to have gone on the CR1 route instead. 

 

Now, with Americans being banned everywhere, I cannot go to Japan to marry him and get started with the CR1 visa. My understanding is that he can do ESTA, come here, get married, and return to Japan; but his job is not a permanent job (it's temporary employment until end of September and then he has to look for another job), so I am not sure if his company will allow him to have time off. He doesn't have any property/kids/assets to prove to at the border that he is just "visiting" me. I know a return ticket back to Japan is not enough. We are getting more and more worried that we just won't be able to be together for years to come due to the pandemic, USCIS's impending furlough's, embassy backlogs, and this administration slowly enforcing more immigration restrictions. My biggest fear is that one day, there will be an EO on K1 visas or that there will be such a huge backlog for CR1's, that we will stay stuck in limbo forever (when we get to that stage). 

 

What are my options? I appreciate any and all advice anyone can give.

[Lucky2Lucky 2,526]

As you know no one can predict the future.  You’ve pretty much listed your options; continue the k1 route or he can apply for a visa and come here marry, withdraw the k1 and file cr1. If he doesn’t get an ESTA and you are till bent on going the CR1 route you can find a third country you can marry in. Personally I wouldn’t go this route because you have to find a place you can both travel to and make sure you guys meet the requirements to obtain a marriage license in that country as well as may have to deal with the translation of documents - but plenty of people do it.

At the time the k1 was your best option- if you wanted to start the immigration process ASAP- you guys weren’t married. Unfortunately those that chose the k1 for the sole purpose of being together faster often regret the route they took- both during COVID and non-COVID times.

The decision is obviously up to you and your fiancé how you want to proceed: continue the k1, try to get an ESTA to marry and file CR1 or marry in 3rd country and file CR1. Vote in November.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Luckycuds

[powerpuff 6,745]

You really only have 2 options:

1) wait out the K-1 process (we also applied in June and we decided to stick with it due to the difficulties with traveling)

2) don't withdraw K-1 until you either can get your fiancé to visit you in the US or you arrange to get married in a third country 

 

[Lil bear 4,271]

5 hours ago, scabrera3175 said:

Hi everyone:

 

I hope everyone is safe and well during these crazy times. This is my first post on VJ, so please offer any honest advice you can give. I always read posts from here, so I know how helpful others can be, especially in a topic like this, where I personally don't know much about. Long story short, I met my fiance in Japan in February of this year. I'm gonna skip the cheesy stuff, but we fell in love. I was on a study abroad program in Japan, studying Japanese for a year. But then the pandemic hit and instead of staying in Japan until October like I intended to, I was forced to evacuate in March and go back home (NYC; which at the time, was literally the epicenter of COVID in the world). We had planned on staying together until my time was up in October and then applying for the K1 visa to give our relationship more time. With such short notice, I had to pack my things and tie up loose ends, and we decided to just apply for the K1 visa when we were ready. We knew we wanted to be together for the long haul, but didn't know by what means was the best way. We didn't think about the CR1 path so seriously at the time. We submitted the K1 visa in June and are waiting.  However, I keep reading the news, VJ posts, and reddit and have just become discouraged about my decision to have done the K1 visa in the first place. At the time of application, we thought it was the best option since we read that CR1 took much longer and we didn't want to be separated for long. If we had known how things would have turned out, we would have done our best to have gone on the CR1 route instead. 

 

Now, with Americans being banned everywhere, I cannot go to Japan to marry him and get started with the CR1 visa. My understanding is that he can do ESTA, come here, get married, and return to Japan; but his job is not a permanent job (it's temporary employment until end of September and then he has to look for another job), so I am not sure if his company will allow him to have time off. He doesn't have any property/kids/assets to prove to at the border that he is just "visiting" me. I know a return ticket back to Japan is not enough. We are getting more and more worried that we just won't be able to be together for years to come due to the pandemic, USCIS's impending furlough's, embassy backlogs, and this administration slowly enforcing more immigration restrictions. My biggest fear is that one day, there will be an EO on K1 visas or that there will be such a huge backlog for CR1's, that we will stay stuck in limbo forever (when we get to that stage). 

 

What are my options? I appreciate any and all advice anyone can give.

You said the k1 appealed to you because it gave you time to strengthen and deepen your relationship .. that’s a good reason !! While the covid situation is preventing you from meeting again in person right now , it’s really not stopping you from doing what you felt you needed to do .. I’d encourage you to continue to do this in all the ways you can. Long distance relationships are hard yes .. but you have a great advantage in already having spent significant time together in person.. you do know each other already .. you can grow your relationship  really well during these challenging times .. even if it’s not in person .. read books together .. do some solid discussing of how you are each reacting and responding to the current challenges .. grow in knowing each other’s heart.. understand what’s important to each other and why even if you don’t understand .. and I believe it will serve you well in the years to come by doing so .. just my thoughts ! 

[scabrera3175 1]

3 hours ago, Lil bear said:

You said the k1 appealed to you because it gave you time to strengthen and deepen your relationship .. that’s a good reason !! While the covid situation is preventing you from meeting again in person right now , it’s really not stopping you from doing what you felt you needed to do .. I’d encourage you to continue to do this in all the ways you can. Long distance relationships are hard yes .. but you have a great advantage in already having spent significant time together in person.. you do know each other already .. you can grow your relationship  really well during these challenging times .. even if it’s not in person .. read books together .. do some solid discussing of how you are each reacting and responding to the current challenges .. grow in knowing each other’s heart.. understand what’s important to each other and why even if you don’t understand .. and I believe it will serve you well in the years to come by doing so .. just my thoughts ! 

This is really beautiful... thank you! These past few months have been extremely difficult, especially since I had to cancel everything in Japan and had to return home due to the world situation. I would much rather still want to be with him in Japan, but I guess life just decided to hand me another lesson to learn through all of this. We discussed everything last night, which is why I was super worried about if we will have the K1 visa approved in time (though it is looking like we will just wait years for all of this and it truly breaks my heart). So many people bash the K1 visa and I realize too, how much more beneficial the CR1 would be for us, especially for him and the quality of life he can have once he arrives. On the K1 visa, he cannot work right away, cannot open a bank account right away, cannot travel outside the country right away -- I wonder if this can cause frustration on his part. K1 visa or CR1 visa, both visas will be waiting a long time anyway, but CR1 is given more priority currently. We just figured that if we were going to wait all this time, we might as well have reaped the benefits that came with it. Regardless, we will persevere because we are a team. I am just conflicted for which is the better option for the both of us.

[scabrera3175 1]

1 hour ago, geowrian said:

The law covering marriages where both parties are not physically present has been in place for decades. It was not aimed at virtual marriages - it was targeted at proxy marriages - but it entirely covers the circumstance.

 

A proxy marriage - or other marriage where both parties are not physically present - can only be recognized once the marriage is consummated.

So it's not that the US doesn't recognize those marriages per se. It's that you have to meet in person (and reasonable have been able to consummate the marriage) before you can file the petition.

But if you need to meet in person already, why not just marry at the time of meeting in person? The whole proxy/virtual part of it is just adding complexity and extra requirements (showing that you have reasonably consummated the marriage) to the process.

So a friend of mine actually told me that in Japan, you can receive a marriage certificate, even if both parties are not there. Though to be honest, I am not sure about this and if it would be valid, based on what you guys are pointing out...

IF YOUR SPOUSE IS IN JAPAN

This becomes a very quick and easy process. You mail your passport copy and notarized affidavit of competence to marry (download from the US Embassy in Japan marriage information page) to your spouse, he or she fills in the paperwork at the city hall, and you’re done.

If you’re from a country that has a family registration system, then you can submit a Japanese translation of your family register in place of the affidavit of competence to marry.

For the affidavit of competence to marry, you are allowed to translate it yourself if you are getting it notarized at a US Embassy in Japan, since they have Japanese-speaking staff that can check your work (the same goes for the forms related to the Consular Report of Birth Abroad, but that comes later). However, if you are getting it notarized in another country, then you may need to hire a professional translator to do it, even though the Embassy is only going to notarize the English version anyway. Consult with your local embassy (if abroad) or notary for their policy on this.

GET MARRIED IN JAPAN, EVEN IF NEITHER OF YOU ARE THERE!

It is possible to get legally married in Japan, even if neither you or your spouse are present in the country. However, you will need some help from your spouse’s parents to visit the city hall on your behalf. If you continue to the next steps of this process, getting the Certificate of Eligibility, you’ll need a lot more help from the parents, so it’s best to get used to asking – and to get on their good side – now. We got legally married in Japan despite the fact that we were both living and working in Thailand at the time.

WHY REGISTER YOUR MARRIAGE IN JAPAN?

There are many advantages to registering your marriage in Japan, even if you don’t intend to live there:

• Save on duplicate paperwork: Japan requires its nationals/residents to legally register their marriage in Japan, even if it’s already been registered under another country’s laws. The United States (and many other countries) has no such requirement. So, if you get your legal marriage in Japan, you only have to do the paperwork once.
• Easy access to extra records: Chances are, you’ll need to get a duplicate of your marriage certificate at some point. It’s easy to do this from a Japanese city hall, especially if you have parents-in-law in the area.
• No requirement for physical presence: Neither spouse actually has to be present to get legally married. You can file all the paperwork by mail.

It’s not terribly romantic, but it will save significant hassle to get your legal marriage done in Japan before you start thinking about planning a ceremony. Trust me, planning a wedding is plenty stressful even when you have all the legal paperwork out of the way beforehand.

MARRIED BY MAIL

This method is only going to be available if one of you (“your spouse” for the purpose of these instructions) is a Japanese national. Registering your marriage is the easiest part of the entire process of moving to Japan as a spouse, as long as you have a little help in Japan. All you have to do is collect the following documents and submit them by post.

 

http://www.transenzjapan.com/blog/international-marriage-in-japan/

[scabrera3175 1]

1 hour ago, Duke & Marie said:

Without any disrespect, you were together a month before planning k1 and your leaving japan.. marriage is a big commitment and y’all are very much in the honeymoon phase of the relationship... I’d recommend continuing down the k1 path giving the relationship time to grow before getting married. 

I understand the skepticism. We completely understand the commitment. Us doing the K1 visa symbolizes that we recognize that we want to get married to each other and be together, to commit to each other and love each other forever. When we were physically together before I had to leave, we had a marriage-like relationship. We spent everyday together and basically were living together for that time. We traveled whenever we could, split household bills, talked about children in the future, and eventually, who would make the sacrifice to go to the other person to live permanently. We knew at that time that we wanted to be together and stay together, so we thought about marriage, but did not act on it at that time. The action came in the form of the K1 visa a few months later. A person in 2 months could make you feel what a person in 2 years couldn't. Time means nothing, character does. 

[geowrian 22,337]

9 minutes ago, scabrera3175 said:

So a friend of mine actually told me that in Japan, you can receive a marriage certificate, even if both parties are not there. Though to be honest, I am not sure about this and if it would be valid, based on what you guys are pointing out...

I'm not sure how that could possibly get around the definition of a husband/wife/spouse for US immigration purposes:

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:8 section:1101 edition:prelim)

Quote

(35) The term "spouse", "wife", or "husband" do not include a spouse, wife, or husband by reason of any marriage ceremony where the contracting parties thereto are not physically present in the presence of each other, unless the marriage shall have been consummated.

 

So again, the marriage may be legal within Japan, but it won't be recognized until you meet in person anyway. At that point, just get married in person and avoid the hassles that come with marriage without being physically present.

[scabrera3175 1]

2 minutes ago, geowrian said:

I'm not sure how that could possibly get around the definition of a husband/wife/spouse for US immigration purposes:

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:8 section:1101 edition:prelim)

 

So again, the marriage may be legal within Japan, but it won't be recognized until you meet in person anyway. At that point, just get married in person and avoid the hassles that come with marriage without being physically present.

Ok, thank you for the clarification! At least we know that that option is completely off the table now.

[scabrera3175 1]

7 hours ago, powerpuff said:

You really only have 2 options:

1) wait out the K-1 process (we also applied in June and we decided to stick with it due to the difficulties with traveling)

2) don't withdraw K-1 until you either can get your fiancé to visit you in the US or you arrange to get married in a third country 

 

Yeah, at this point, I am more inclined towards just sticking with the K1 visa since we already submitted the application and with USCIS continuing processing on a "skeletal staff", operations will be so much slower. So even if I canceled the K1 visa and applied for the CR1 visa, the wait would be so much longer. The benefit of us having submitted our K1 visa in June is that we are already in the queue, but the question is how much longer are we going to have to be in that queue for, especially since K1 isn't viewed as "mission-critical"? And if we all have to wait anyway since it is not only my application that is affected, but everyone else's, why not just start from scratch on a visa application that will give my partner a much better quality of life the moment he arrives to the US? This conflicts me 😥

[carmel34 3,650]

50 minutes ago, scabrera3175 said:

why not just start from scratch on a visa application that will give my partner a much better quality of life the moment he arrives to the US? This conflicts me 

Sounds like it's time for a long discussion with your fiance to decide on the best way forward.  Financially, the K-1 can be frustrating because the arriving fiance, even after marriage, has to wait so many months before being able to work or leave the US, many are waiting 6-10 months for EAD/AP.  So financial concerns are a big factor in your decision, not just "speed."  Nothing is fast in US immigration.  Good luck!

[Orangesapples 1,954]

If I were you, I'd have him try to to come on ESTA and get married (he shouldn't lie at the border, he doesn't need to give them details they don't ask for for, but if they do ask if he's planning on getting married, he should say yes, and that he's planning on returning home after the wedding). Then if that fails, just continue with the K1. A K1 is really tough for the new immigrant (I'm speaking from experience) but it might be your best option right now. I would try to get married and file for a CR1 but not cancel the K1 until you are actually married. 

[scabrera3175 1]

23 minutes ago, carmel34 said:

Sounds like it's time for a long discussion with your fiance to decide on the best way forward.  Financially, the K-1 can be frustrating because the arriving fiance, even after marriage, has to wait so many months before being able to work or leave the US, many are waiting 6-10 months for EAD/AP.  So financial concerns are a big factor in your decision, not just "speed."  Nothing is fast in US immigration.  Good luck!

Yeah, we have been discussing it for a while now... we are just lost at which direction to take and what are our options/which option is best for us.

[scabrera3175 1]

15 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

If I were you, I'd have him try to to come on ESTA and get married (he shouldn't lie at the border, he doesn't need to give them details they don't ask for for, but if they do ask if he's planning on getting married, he should say yes, and that he's planning on returning home after the wedding). Then if that fails, just continue with the K1. A K1 is really tough for the new immigrant (I'm speaking from experience) but it might be your best option right now. I would try to get married and file for a CR1 but not cancel the K1 until you are actually married. 

I was looking at the requirements to apply for the CR1 visa and one of the requirements is that we prove we are in a bona-fide marriage (pictures and stuff). I am not sure if USCIS means they want proof that we are together after just getting married and things like that. We have pictures and proof that we were together this year, but that would be before we would get married. And if he gets here on an ESTA and we get married, what can we do to gather proof of a bona-fide marriage since he would leave soon after?

[Ontarkie 14,345]

~~Two posts removed for discussing 3rd party group, and 14 posts removed for continued derailing the thread as it does not apply the the OP's situation and when members have explained that issued the derailer continue to press the issue.~~