UK posts being made invisible

[PlatyPius 5]

1) Posts are not "deleted". Mods cannot do that. They can only make them invisible.

What is the difference, out of interest? If the post is never made visible again, then its the same as deleting to the reader, no?

If the post is not made visible again, then you know that it was Ewok's decision to leave it that way. You can then assume that the post was deleted.

(Mags is busy making necklaces at the moment. Plus, I'm building a new site, so she doesn't have access to the computer for a little while.)

[mRx 16]

1) Posts are not "deleted". Mods cannot do that. They can only make them invisible.

2) Mods cannot edit posts. At all. When Ewok would delete a post and leave his little messages, he was editing the post - hence the "edited by:" line. He can edit posts, since he's an administrator. Mods cannot.

3) Ergo, the only way for a Mod to leave some notification that he/she has "invisibled" a post is to post a new reply. If the post that was hidden is on page 3 and the new reply from the Mod is on page 6, it ain't gonna make a lot of sense to people, is it?

4) I think the only way to keep the Mods doing what they do is to give them some level of invisibility. Y'all have seen the amount of ####### that Mags just took. Why would the Mods WANT to expose themselves to judgement and sentencing by the crowd?

1) Yes, well "permanetely invisible" and "deleted" are different words for the same meaning. So I will now refer to said posts as "nuked", to avoid any confusion.

2 & 3) If Captain Ewok creates something to let the mod replace a nuked post with a place holder and a reason, as he stated, then that would act just the same as an edit, wouldn't you think? Thus there would be no need for the mod to post a reason 6 pages ahead of the nuked post. We would all know who did it and why immediately as it was done.

4) No position of power comes without criticism. They accepted the position and as long as Ewok is happy with their performance, then why should they be afraid to do the job that they agreed to do? Unless of course, they acted outside of their jurisdiction (on a bias, alliance, etc.). Why else would a mod need to act invisibly?

[PlatyPius 5]

4) No position of power comes without criticism. They accepted the position and as long as Ewok is happy with their performance, then why should they be afraid to do the job that they agreed to do? Unless of course, they acted outside of their jurisdiction (on a bias, alliance, etc.). Why else would a mod need to act invisibly?

They are not afraid to do the job. I simply don't see the reason they should have to announce each time that they do something. I don't get enough time with Mags as it is; imagine how grumpy I'll be if I see her even less due to her having to post a "who and why" each time she "moderates" something. The mods aren't paid, you know.... I think it's pretty rude for people to demand that they do more than they already do - or to complain about them at all, really.

In the end, it's JUST a message board. If something that happens here affects "your" (generic you) quality of life that much, it might be time for treatment of internet addiction.

Edited June 25, 2007 by PlatyPius

[MichelleandCraig 1]

I agree, Platy. Not picking at you at all here, Matt but it really just boils down to you see it one way and I see it another. I don't think they are *afraid* to announce when they do something, but why should they have to is all? Because you (or anyone else) wants it done? No.....ya know? M.

[Nagishkaw 510]

Platy,

What does your personal life have to do with VJ ? The issue is not how grumpy you may become, or how busy you are. After all, it is just a message board, and it might be time for treatment of internet addiction.

[PlatyPius 5]

You're right, in that I don't really care what happens on VJ - until it affects my own life. When Mags has to spend extra time online due to cretinous ingrates causing problems, that affects me. Otherwise though, I don't care at all what happens here or to whom.

[Mags 112]

Okay! Please don't let this thread veer off topic again. My personal life is exactly that, personal. I want no further discussions of it in this topic. It is irrelevant to the topic at hand; online and offline - two separate entities.

I have already stated in this topic that, if the Captain is able to write something that enables the mods to add an edit reason for invisible posts, I will be happy to undertake that and put it into practice.

I still actually quite like the invisible posts idea though. It means that we CAN retrieve a post after the fact; if we edit, we wouldn't be able to do that. I'd feel happier with the invisible post idea, but if the moral majority wish to have us edit as a preference then we can go with that; although I feel it is dodgy ground...

I'm always happy to explain many of my actions to people. However, many of the things us mods do is also behind the scenes. I feel that that should stay there, behind the scenes.

However, I do feel that this trend of people wanting to control what the mods do a little tiring. There are quite a few people that have admitted publically on VJ that they dislike authority and I can't help but think that they like to try to retain some control by dictating what the mods do and who they answer to. Let's face it, mini-mods and people micro-managing are a pain.

The simple fact of the matter is that we DO try to accommodate everyone. But it can get a little tiring to be constantly told we are doing this and that wrong. I'm not expecting people to bow down and say "ah the mods have spoken" and become little sheep, but some respect for what we do and the fact that we ARE here to moderate the board and we ARE here to keep things in check (regardless of how people would like to dictate things to us) would be nice. We welcome ideas, of course, that is the whole idea of this thread, but I wish people would try to work with us, rather than against us.

Thanks for reading.

Edited June 25, 2007 by mags

[Cassie 8]

I personally don't want another person having the power to go into my posts and edit what I have to say. No offense, mods! If that becomes the new rule around here, that will be the time I pack my bags and leave VJ.

I personally prefer invisible posts with a disclaimer left behind so people with brain injuries like me don't get confused.

[Leney 0]

Just a thought for you -

The way we do it at work, is to have forums within the forums that are only accessible by employees (and a few volunteers) of our company, we then take all edited posts, and put them in a thread or "suspect file" if you will, and keep all edited, and inappropriate content posted by that customer, so if they continue to violate the ToS, they will be given a 3 day ban, after that, the penalties rise - week ban, month ban, permenant ban, IP ban. In the same "employee only" forum we also place all removed or as you are calling them "invisible" threads.

That way, nothing is lost and everything is tracked and monitored, including the actions of the employees/volunteers. This stops abuse of power for mods, and gives them plenty off ammo when questions arise as to what to do with an unruly customer.

[Mags 112]

I personally don't want another person having the power to go into my posts and edit what I have to say. No offense, mods! If that becomes the new rule around here, that will be the time I pack my bags and leave VJ.

I personally prefer invisible posts with a disclaimer left behind so people with brain injuries like me don't get confused.

I totally understand this. With the invisibility and reason for edit tag option at least nothing is permanent.

I prefer this over all the other options discussed here.

I'd hate to be accused of something because I edited someone's post, that would be awful and would simply fan the flames rather than abate them.

Edited June 25, 2007 by mags

[*julez* 124]

I believe that if a post is not a violation of TOS it should not be made invisible. If it is a violation, then fine, make it invisible.

[Fandango 1,439]

I cannot believe this conversation is still going on. Ironic that I'm now adding to it & bumping it, but eh whaddya gonna do?

The mods have not gone power crazy like some of the organizers did.

I said it before and I'll say it again....before there were mods and 'named' organizers...I thought things were just fine. Noooooooo, everyone wanted mods. Well now we got em, so now we have to deal. This is not a democracy per se in the respect of the mods being our elected officials...yes, they can certainly take suggestions, but afaik, the only accountability they really hold is toward Ewok.

Everyone is free to voice their concerns, but we are just regurgitating the same stuff here. In the instance of this particular scenario, the moderating was justified (what I saw of it beforehand). I don't like this place being moderated cos I'd much rather see the snide & smug comments and who said them. But the ppl E chose aren't bad at all. It's a thankless task requiring lots of time...I for one would never ever ever everrrrrr take on such a task as a volunteer...so instead of givin them sh!t, think about all they do here.

Invisible, deleted...who flippin cares really. But as far as mods making em invis and E deleting them...the problem everyone seems to have is actually with E since the perma-invis decision is his, not the mods'.

[rebeccajo 14]

Just a thought for you -

The way we do it at work, is to have forums within the forums that are only accessible by employees (and a few volunteers) of our company, we then take all edited posts, and put them in a thread or "suspect file" if you will, and keep all edited, and inappropriate content posted by that customer, so if they continue to violate the ToS, they will be given a 3 day ban, after that, the penalties rise - week ban, month ban, permenant ban, IP ban. In the same "employee only" forum we also place all removed or as you are calling them "invisible" threads.

That way, nothing is lost and everything is tracked and monitored, including the actions of the employees/volunteers. This stops abuse of power for mods, and gives them plenty off ammo when questions arise as to what to do with an unruly customer.

It's an excellent idea as it creates the 'track record' of known flamebaiters.

But, it would require a 'secret room' where mods could work or hold discussion. Something I believe Captain is not in favor of.

[Tim and Bethanie 1]

I have read for an hour, and feel like I just read a book with a sh*tty ending. Ya know the ones that leave you hanging and you never get an answer?

[no name 1]

I have read for an hour, and feel like I just read a book with a sh*tty ending. Ya know the ones that leave you hanging and you never get an answer?

Yep.

And I've asked to have it closed (at least 3x), as it serves no purpose, but apparently OPs can't always get their own thread closed.