F1 cannot study if University goes online

[juancarlos 126]

Hi,

 

Not sure if it's the appropiate forum but ICE announced today that F1 student visas cannot remain in the US if the University where they're studying decides to move the classes online. 

 

This sounds really scary and let's see how it progresses because it might impact a lot of students already in the US or those applying for visas outside.

 

https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/sevp-modifies-temporary-exemptions-nonimmigrant-students-taking-online-courses-during

[JFH 12,190]

What’s scary about it? Are you concerned that you won’t have a good enough internet connection back home to complete your learning online? 

[juancarlos 126]

Just now, JFH said:

What’s scary about it? Are you concerned that you won’t have a good enough internet connection back home to complete your learning online? 

I am just guessing that a lot of F1 international students will be affected by this, since there are many different type of studies and circumstances.

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

53 minutes ago, juancarlos said:

I am just guessing that a lot of F1 international students will be affected by this, since there are many different type of studies and circumstances.

 

I am guessing that in most cases, the cost of a perhaps unplanned air ticket home is a lot less than US accommodation costs for the semester. It is unfortunate you cannot choose to stay in the US, though, it shouldn’t have been entirely unexpected as F1 visas usually are not available for online only courses. At least there is the allowance that (if I’m reading it right) you essentially just need one class in person to count for it being a hybrid model and be allowed to stay, I think this is more generous than usual?

Edited July 6, 2020 by SusieQQQ

[madala 32]

4 hours ago, JFH said:

What’s scary about it? Are you concerned that you won’t have a good enough internet connection back home to complete your learning online? 

What a tasteless sarcasm....!

[Mollie09 1,543]

Getting a university degree is hardly only about receiving content. Meeting people, creating networks, debating ideas, the experience as a whole is something you can't get online. That's not even to mention the learning that just can't happen online, eg. labs, research, practicums.

 

This is a tremendous loss for international students, but ultimately the US system as a whole is going to suffer because of it. It's a shame.

[atomicpenguin 12]

14 hours ago, JFH said:

What’s scary about it? Are you concerned that you won’t have a good enough internet connection back home to complete your learning online? 

The timing and severity of the exemption change will displace thousands of students. Many students who have applied, been accepted, and enrolled have made housing and life arrangements, as well as have paid full tuition for their courseload. For most, the timezones will make virtual learning extremely impractical, especially in light of paying full tuition.

 

This is one of those rule changes that had no economic or social reason to be made, other than political: to further some sort of anti-immigrant narrative or strong arm schools to accelerate potentially unsafe reopenings. International students pay full tuition which subsidize scholarships for American students, contribute immensely to local university-town economies, and take nothing away from existing citizens. They pay for their own health insurance and are ineligible for any government benefits whatsoever.

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

19 minutes ago, Mollie09 said:

Getting a university degree is hardly only about receiving content. Meeting people, creating networks, debating ideas, the experience as a whole is something you can't get online. That's not even to mention the learning that just can't happen online, eg. labs, research, practicums.

 

 

I agree, but domestic students face this problem doing online learning too. It’s not just a problem for internationals.

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

18 minutes ago, atomicpenguin said:

The timing and severity of the exemption change will displace thousands of students. Many students who have applied, been accepted, and enrolled have made housing and life arrangements, as well as have paid full tuition for their courseload. For most, the timezones will make virtual learning extremely impractical, especially in light of paying full tuition.

 

This is one of those rule changes that had no economic or social reason to be made, other than political: to further some sort of anti-immigrant narrative or strong arm schools to accelerate potentially unsafe reopenings. International students pay full tuition which subsidize scholarships for American students, contribute immensely to local university-town economies, and take nothing away from existing citizens. They pay for their own health insurance and are ineligible for any government benefits whatsoever.

The first part i agree with. When my daughter’s classes went online (all real time) for the second half of spring semester, it was bad enough for her being on the west coast with classes on east coast time, and it was really difficult for her international classmates, some of whom were literally in class at midnight.

 

The second part I’m not entirely sure I agree with. F1 visas usually are not available for online classes, it is not a rule change per se. On one hand it perhaps seems unfair to enforce the usual rules about online courses under current circumstances. On the other, it seems to me that the concession for hybrid learning is a lot more generous than the usual F1 rules, so there is that. There may be also beneficial side effects in the short term - for example it makes it easier for many colleges to get the lower density in dorms that they want/need this semester. I’m not at all trying to justify this administration’s general anti immigration stance or disagree with your general observations about the contributions international students make - I’m just saying there are more nuances to this decision apart from “anti immigrant”.   Seems to me the bigger issue might be this 5 month rule about F1 and how this plays out. A semester’s disruption is an entirely different thing to effectively permanently booting thousands of students.

[atomicpenguin 12]

16 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

The first part i agree with. When my daughter’s classes went online (all real time) for the second half of spring semester, it was bad enough for her being on the west coast with classes on east coast time, and it was really difficult for her international classmates, some of whom were literally in class at midnight.

 

The second part I’m not entirely sure I agree with. F1 visas usually are not available for online classes, it is not a rule change per se. On one hand it perhaps seems unfair to enforce the usual rules about online courses under current circumstances. On the other, it seems to me that the concession for hybrid learning is a lot more generous than the usual F1 rules, so there is that. There may be also beneficial side effects in the short term - for example it makes it easier for many colleges to get the lower density in dorms that they want/need this semester. I’m not at all trying to justify this administration’s general anti immigration stance or disagree with your general observations about the contributions international students make - I’m just saying there are more nuances to this decision apart from “anti immigrant”.   Seems to me the bigger issue might be this 5 month rule about F1 and how this plays out. A semester’s disruption is an entirely different thing to effectively permanently booting thousands of students.

Yeah I recognize this is a change in the exemption to an existing rule. I think an argument from authority is sort of missing the point here in that, like you said, it just doesn't make sense to enforce the existing rule, which was made to prevent any loopholes from online-only "universities" which may be used to unlawfully stay in the country. ICE even recognized this with exemptions in the Spring, so why change things at a time when COVID is still going strong?

 

Rather than figuring out how to accomplish their political aims with the universities directly, the administration seems to have opted for using international students as a bargaining chip. As you said, the concessions are generous, so lets hope the universities react appropriately or this rule gets challenged in the courts.

[Sparkle Sparkle 914]

My heart goes out to international students that will be affected by this....We should all sympathize them...coming to the US to study is not only about studying but also a quest for a better life and the possibility of getting a job and making the US a home....They came here to learn and to contribute to the growth of this nation...they did not cause Covid rather for some of them their parents sold houses and properties to send them here. They pay higher school fees, they keep the number in our universities so they are open....Universities going online should be a positive thing and not mess them up. Some of them come from countries half way across the globe..where its nightfall when its daylight here...that alone puts them at obvious disadvantage. If they wanted an online degree there are countless of them that are even cheaper, they came here for the experience...They are way better than some people we allow to stay in this country.

[SunflowerSweet 1,321]

3 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

I agree, but domestic students face this problem doing online learning too. It’s not just a problem for internationals.

It’s simply not a comparable situation to have online courses when you are about to live anywhere in the country, including the same city as the brick and mortar college if you wish, than being forced back home to a complete different country.

 

Others have already pointed out time zone issues as well as a possible lack of technology infrastructure in some countries that could make online learning difficult or near impossible.

 

My friend recently learned she is going to be doing her final Masters year online. Almost immediately she got emails from professors letting their classes know they will be available for face to face meetings for students who may need to check in from time to time. She’s already been invited to some outside study groups with fellow local students. Local organizations and businesses that are popular internship spots are already stepping up to offer hybrid options regardless of the all-online class model. All of these are things an international student who was sent home wouldn’t be able to participate in.

 

There’s probably more I’m missing, but acting like International students are going to be in the exact same boat as domestic students if they get sent home is... ridiculous. When you consider that international students often pay astronomically more in tuition and fees it becomes even more upsetting.

[Lucky2Lucky 2,526]

4 hours ago, Mollie09 said:

Getting a university degree is hardly only about receiving content. Meeting people, creating networks, debating ideas, the experience as a whole is something you can't get online. That's not even to mention the learning that just can't happen online, eg. labs, research, practicums.

 

This is a tremendous loss for international students, but ultimately the US system as a whole is going to suffer because of it. It's a shame.

Yes, agree, but as implied American & LPR students will suffer as well being unable to network, have the hands on experience, etc. It would be a heck of a lot cheaper for the F1 students to not have to pay for room and board and plane tickets however. 

[SunflowerSweet 1,321]

1 minute ago, Luckycuds said:

Yes, agree, but as implied American & LPR students will suffer as well being unable to network, have the hands on experience, etc. It would be a heck of a lot cheaper for the F1 students to not have to pay for room and board and plane tickets however. 

Then give them that option...? Are people actually claiming this is happening as a benevolent act to help international students not have to pay so much?

[Lucky2Lucky 2,526]

Just now, MorganandMichael said:

Then give them that option...? Are people actually claiming this is happening as a benevolent act to help international students not have to pay so much?

But what if the university dorms are closed? Where will these students stay? I understand they didn't chose to take a semester of online classes but in normal times F1 is not granted to those who take online classes.