I-751 --- Get divorced or stay married?

[Diane and Chris 651]

5 hours ago, DeadliftingDad said:

Waiting for my 10 year green card.  Didn't even receive my conditional one yet

What type of visa did you come here on?

[Timona 4,208]

49 minutes ago, Diane and Chris said:

What type of visa did you come here on?

From her other post, tourist Visa 

[InhaleExhale 28]

16 hours ago, laylalex said:

No, the summary dissolution is NOTHING like an annulment!

You are correct! I confused this somehow. But after further investigation it looks like we do not qualify since both of us own buildings and land. 

22 hours ago, laylalex said:

Did you do stuff married people normally do, like live together, have joint accounts, file taxes, etc.? 

Yes, we did own a house together which I have already deeded him over and we have already sorted out those financials. We lived together (that caused a lot of our problems 😕 ) and still do until I move, we went to Europe last year to see my parents, we have had a joint bank account since we got married, plenty of utility statements, pictures, texts, emails, social media posts, marriage counseling "home work" emails (written by the therapist) and invoices for those sessions, shared health insurance, he is still on my bank account as POD (=when I die he gets the funds), I'm not sure if I am still on his as beneficiary (he may have taken me off), jointly filed taxes, hm...can't think of anymore right now...

I am still a bit confused somehow...so if I do not worry about immigration as you suggested up-thread and let's say we would then file for divorce in January. My ROC window opens in February. Since we would still be married at that point we would have to file jointly. What if he refuses to sign?

Or, other scenario #2. If he signs and at the same time I would have to notify USCIS that our divorce has been filed. Let's say they send me an RFE in March and want the decree within the 87 days (=June). But I won't have it then because it takes till August for me to get it. Now what would I do then?

Or lastly #3, when USCIS asks me why we are not divorced even though we live separate lives and the marital relationship has ended a very long time ago...if we say "we haven't been ready yet emotionally" or "we do it for tax benefits"...Is this really something USCIS would not raise an eye brow about?

Thanks so much for your insights, really appreciate it  

[InhaleExhale 28]

4 hours ago, aperson said:

The law doesn’t require immigrants to stay in a unhappy or potentially dangerous marriage to maintain immigration status. So go ahead and get divorced if you think that’s the right thing to do. If possible, consult a good immigration lawyer. Stay strong!

Well, I would not think of getting divorced right now at this point in time if I didn't have my immigration situation. I am just worried that if USCIS asks for a decree and I won't be able to produce one they can deny my application and send me a NTA. Or, if we stay married for now and my husband refuses to either sign the ROC petition or refuses to join me for the interview then I have a big problem 😮 

If all that wouldn't matter, like I said somewhere above, I would prefer to wait and not have to deal with getting divorced and all the pain and paperwork that comes with it. I'd rather postpone and do it later but it appears I do have to watch USCIS timelines...no?

That was basically my intent with this post..to get guidance for this specific situation

[DeadliftingDad 3]

 

13 hours ago, Diane and Chris said:

What type of visa did you come here on?

 

12 hours ago, Timona said:

From her other post, tourist Visa 

Correct, but let's not hi-jack InhaleExhales thread

11 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

Well, I would not think of getting divorced right now at this point in time if I didn't have my immigration situation. I am just worried that if USCIS asks for a decree and I won't be able to produce one they can deny my application and send me a NTA. Or, if we stay married for now and my husband refuses to either sign the ROC petition or refuses to join me for the interview then I have a big problem 😮 

If all that wouldn't matter, like I said somewhere above, I would prefer to wait and not have to deal with getting divorced and all the pain and paperwork that comes with it. I'd rather postpone and do it later but it appears I do have to watch USCIS timelines...no?

That was basically my intent with this post..to get guidance for this specific situation

 

Have you talked to a lawyer about this situation?  From my understanding, after you have your conditional green card you can separate/divorce from your spouse and go your own way.  To get the conditions removed, you'll need to prove you were in a bona fide marriage, which it seems you were. It seems to be a very common occurrence of this happening. 

 

But yes, it does make sense to wait for a bit longer and then deal with it, once the conditions are lifted. 

[geowrian 22,338]

39 minutes ago, DeadliftingDad said:

But yes, it does make sense to wait for a bit longer and then deal with it, once the conditions are lifted. 

Conditions being lifted would likely be in close to 2 years (or sometimes much longer). They have over 6 months until they are eligible to file for it and then at minimum a year for ROC adjudication (sometimes over 2 years...and who knows with the pandemic and furloughs...).

 

12 hours ago, InhaleExhale said:

Well, I would not think of getting divorced right now at this point in time if I didn't have my immigration situation. I am just worried that if USCIS asks for a decree and I won't be able to produce one they can deny my application and send me a NTA. Or, if we stay married for now and my husband refuses to either sign the ROC petition or refuses to join me for the interview then I have a big problem 😮 

If you file jointly, an interview would require you both to be there (barring certain reasons for being unable to do so, like a deployed spouse). If he refuses to attend the interview (or worse - decides to tank it on purpose or claim fraud at it, which people have done), expect an I-751 denial.

The main thing is not living together. When you file jointly, they will almost certainly want to see evidence of living at the same address up until the point of filing, then again from filing to interview (or RFE). Once they see you don't live together, expect scrutiny.

This is the riskiest option IMO.

 

The only relevant way you can file solo is via a divorce waiver. You can do so without the divorce being final yet, but USCIS will eventually send an RFE for it. Failure to provide one requires that they deny the I-751. They can't keep holding it until you get divorced.

 

One can file jointly then switch to a divorce waiver once actually divorced. Just tell USCIS about the divorce in a timely manner.

[InhaleExhale 28]

25 minutes ago, geowrian said:

The main thing is not living together. When you file jointly, they will almost certainly want to see evidence of living at the same address up until the point of filing, then again from filing to interview (or RFE). Once they see you don't live together, expect scrutiny.

This is the riskiest option IMO.

We will NOT be living together when I file for my ROC next year in Feb. And our relationship has been terminated 5 months ago.

Am I understanding correctly then for my situation it would be best to get divorced asap?

[geowrian 22,338]

8 minutes ago, InhaleExhale said:

We will NOT be living together when I file for my ROC next year in Feb. And our relationship has been terminated 5 months ago.

Am I understanding correctly then for my situation it would be best to get divorced asap?

From purely an immigration standpoint, I would not suggest planning to file jointly, even if he eventually agreed to sign the paperwork.

ASAP may not be needed...you do have some time to figure things out and see if you want to give it another try. But if that doesn't happen, I would anticipate filing with a divorce waiver.

[InhaleExhale 28]

37 minutes ago, geowrian said:

ASAP may not be needed...you do have some time to figure things out and see if you want to give it another try.

I have done all I can to give it another try 😕 He verbally abused me (once), he denied that very thing at my emotional expense, he broke up with me, he ended our marriage therapy, he suddenly changed from being friendly to unpredictably hostile and I am at the end of my wits. I have given all I can and actually too much considering my own self worthiness 😕 

He rejected all that I constantly offered to save our relationship. I feel wounded and scarred beyond repair 😕 And there is nothing coming from him that would indicate he wants to fix anything. 

For us to figure out things some miracle would have to happen and it seems quite evident it won't.

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by InhaleExhale

[InhaleExhale 28]

I read more through sort of similar threads here on the forum and from what I understand it looks like it would be best for me to get divorced right now also because USCIS may find it odd if we are apart and living apart but are still married...?

I hope it's allowed, tagging @mindthegap and @Villanelle to see if they could give their thought on my situation...?

Thanks so much, I really do appreciate it ❤️.

[laylalex 7,300]

On 7/1/2020 at 9:36 PM, InhaleExhale said:

You are correct! I confused this somehow. But after further investigation it looks like we do not qualify since both of us own buildings and land. 

Yes, we did own a house together which I have already deeded him over and we have already sorted out those financials. We lived together (that caused a lot of our problems 😕 ) and still do until I move, we went to Europe last year to see my parents, we have had a joint bank account since we got married, plenty of utility statements, pictures, texts, emails, social media posts, marriage counseling "home work" emails (written by the therapist) and invoices for those sessions, shared health insurance, he is still on my bank account as POD (=when I die he gets the funds), I'm not sure if I am still on his as beneficiary (he may have taken me off), jointly filed taxes, hm...can't think of anymore right now...

I am still a bit confused somehow...so if I do not worry about immigration as you suggested up-thread and let's say we would then file for divorce in January. My ROC window opens in February. Since we would still be married at that point we would have to file jointly. What if he refuses to sign?

Or, other scenario #2. If he signs and at the same time I would have to notify USCIS that our divorce has been filed. Let's say they send me an RFE in March and want the decree within the 87 days (=June). But I won't have it then because it takes till August for me to get it. Now what would I do then?

Or lastly #3, when USCIS asks me why we are not divorced even though we live separate lives and the marital relationship has ended a very long time ago...if we say "we haven't been ready yet emotionally" or "we do it for tax benefits"...Is this really something USCIS would not raise an eye brow about?

Thanks so much for your insights, really appreciate it  

Hey, sorry I didn't reply earlier -- I must have missed that. geowrian gave you great advice.

 

The most important thing is that YOU dictate when or if you want to be divorced and let the immigration issues pan out. I'm so sorry he was abusive to you. You need to take care of yourself, first and foremost. Please do what you need to stay safe -- physically, mentally and every way. Gather your documents that you need for both your divorce and for ROC through the divorce waiver. I know you're worried about the ROC on your own but there are so, so many success stories on here. Please focus on the divorce right now and unhooking your life from his. Your self-preservation is the most important thing, more important than thinking about ROC which you don't even need to think about until next year. Don't think about "how will USCIS see this?" think about "how do I see this?" Do you see your life as being somehow better NOT filing for divorce right as soon as you can? 

 

I know you are in a lot of pain now -- I have been there too. It's a terrible club to be part of, the divorce club, but it's worse to be in the "I'm sticking it out because of immigration" club. Take care of yourself. ❤️ 

[InhaleExhale 28]

11 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Hey, sorry I didn't reply earlier -- I must have missed that. geowrian gave you great advice.

 

The most important thing is that YOU dictate when or if you want to be divorced and let the immigration issues pan out. I'm so sorry he was abusive to you. You need to take care of yourself, first and foremost. Please do what you need to stay safe -- physically, mentally and every way. Gather your documents that you need for both your divorce and for ROC through the divorce waiver. I know you're worried about the ROC on your own but there are so, so many success stories on here. Please focus on the divorce right now and unhooking your life from his. Your self-preservation is the most important thing, more important than thinking about ROC which you don't even need to think about until next year. Don't think about "how will USCIS see this?" think about "how do I see this?" Do you see your life as being somehow better NOT filing for divorce right as soon as you can? 

 

I know you are in a lot of pain now -- I have been there too. It's a terrible club to be part of, the divorce club, but it's worse to be in the "I'm sticking it out because of immigration" club. Take care of yourself. ❤️ 

Thank you for your kind reply and compassion ❤️

 

Just to reiterate, he was verbally abusive once, it really is not how he actually is, he is actually a calm de-escalating character but in that moment he couldn't control himself and yes, that was traumatizing to me especially that he would not own up to it afterwards and he actually denied doing it. I learned that when " hits the fan" he will look out for himself first, their won't be any integrity or responsibility, their won't be any regards to other people emotional cost and not even to the one of his wife. And THAT hurts so much.

 

17 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Don't think about "how will USCIS see this?" think about "how do I see this?" Do you see your life as being somehow better NOT filing for divorce right as soon as you can? 

Do I really have the luxury of allowing myself to not consider how USCIS will look at things..?? After all I am only a conditional LPR and hence always have to consider my immigration situation....

As for your second question..I would NOT stress about filing the divorce right now and that is because I would rather do this with him when things have calmed down...I am really only considering divorcing now because of the ROC ..

 

When there were these moments of friendly interaction I always thought and hoped that we could at least stay friends (before that I hoped we could actually fix things but this would be a foolish hope to keep up 😕 ) ...but then he would act so distant and cold and toxic and hostile and all of that so unpredictably that I am just not even longer allowing myself to hope for a friendship...:( 

[TBoneTX 46,055]

Actually, it's good that you found out now, rather than after 10 years of marriage.  This realization now is saving you a lot of time in your life.

[Villanelle 4,122]

Ok so being honest I skimmed a lot of this because theres a lot of stuff posted that is IMO N/A. I could go through it and directly address why its N/A but I dont think its necessary. Instead Im just going to skip to the bottom line. There are a few key things you are confused about- hence all the N/A questions and concerns-

 

Your ROC window opens in Feb. Your marriage is falling apart. You are wondering if it is better to remain in it to fix it or walk away now. Right? Ok. 

 

Scenario 1- You keep working on the marriage. Around Dec your ROC window will open (its 90 days before the card expires). If you are still together you need to file a joint ROC. This requires his signature at the time. It will also require him to  attend a joint interview. Based on what you posted your spouse is verbally abusive, unpredictable,  canceled therapy. So ask yourself- is this the type of person you can depend on? Doesnt seem so to me. People dont change. When someone shows you who they are you best believe them. If you want to keep at the relationship then keep at it. File the joint ROC in Dec if things are still good. The interview may be 1- 1.5 yrs later. If things get better- great. Go to the interview. If things get worse or at any time you want to walk away- then you walk away and switch to a divorce waiver.

 

Scenario 2- throw in the towel now. File for divorce. Make sure to file ROC in the 90 day window regardless if you have the final divorce decree. You fill it out as a divorce ROC and include a letter that you dont have the decree yet. Eventually they will RFE you for it- probably months after filing, maybe sooner, maybe longer. When they do if you still dont have the final decree you respond telling them that. They will then schedule you for an interview. That will take months to happen. At the interview if you still dont have the decree then they will send your file to the court where you will get time to present it. Some places take 1-2 years to get final decrees done. 

 

The bottom line is whatever you decide theres an immigration process for it. You should not base your life decisions on which immigration process is easiest- that borders on fraud. But I understand wanting to know the impact of your life decisions on the immigration process you will be faced with. So if you keep at the relationship but live separately for a while (or even throughout the whole ROC process) you will 100% have an interview because of the living separately and your spouse must be fully supportive during the interview. People have been approved when separated but they are always on very good terms and there is still trust between them. I dont get that feeling here but its up to you. If you go this path and it doesnt play out well you will have to switch to the divorce waiver and depending on the time frame of when you walk away and being able to get the final decree you may end up having to go to court to complete the divorce ROC. If you have faith that things will get better and are OK with it possibly being that it doesnt work out and you end up on a more difficult ROC path- go for it.  

[InhaleExhale 28]

On 7/8/2020 at 3:00 PM, TBoneTX said:

Actually, it's good that you found out now, rather than after 10 years of marriage.  This realization now is saving you a lot of time in your life.

Yes, it is good. Rationally thinking of course it is good. I try to keep that in mind when the emotional pain comes up. Thank you for reminding me of this