Illegal Immigrants why so much love?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

11 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Considering overstays of a visitor visa appears to be a bigger issue then illegal crossings, maybe it is time to end the VWP and make everyone from every country apply for a B2.

With the looming furlough of 13,000 USCIS employees, I think we will see much less visa fraud.

[Sparkle Sparkle 914]

1 minute ago, Voice of Reason said:

With the looming furlough of 13,000 USCIS employees, I think we will see much less visa fraud.

So my question to you is how did people immigrate legally to the US before the creation of USCIS

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 minute ago, Sparkle Sparkle said:

So my question to you is how did people immigrate legally to the US before the creation of USCIS

Not my area of expertise, sorry.  All of my experience was from 2010 onward, under the auspicious capabilities of USCIS.

[Georgia16 2,858]

25 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Considering overstays of a visitor visa appears to be a bigger issue then illegal crossings, maybe it is time to end the VWP and make everyone from every country apply for a B2.

Just as easy to overstay on a B2 visa. No what they should do is not make it possible for anyone to adjust status from inside the country from visitor visas and overstays. 

[Sparkle Sparkle 914]

@laylalex My post was basically my own personal opinion and in addition I do not know another country that allows visitors a straight path to immigration. It defeats the purpose of nonimmigrant visas....student visas definately should be allowed to AOS because its perfectly logical that after spending 2 years (M.sc) ,4-5 (Bachelors) or Ph.D that you have spend considerable time here and could have found love. @Georgia16 I totally agree with you but with exception to student visas.

Fiances wait an average of 6 -8 months, spouses and family members wait years (Pre CoviD)  ....just for B1/B2 to get a visa in a week and adjust status and you say its fair? all am saying is that it is a loophole that needs to be closed

Edited June 30, 2020 by Sparkle Sparkle

[yuna628 9,700]

11 minutes ago, Sparkle Sparkle said:

So my question to you is how did people immigrate legally to the US before the creation of USCIS

Whole bunch of very excellent books on this.. but I'll try and describe to you my ancestor's experience and what I've been able to trace in historical genealogy records. My g-grandmother came through Ellis Island pre-crackdown on a lot of immigrants. She was a teenager and her only skills were certainly just being lady's maid and nanny. A small one page form was filled out with her photo and that was that... mostly the same way all my more recent ancestors got here. Immigration control wasn't a big thing. Making sure the person was disease free and had somewhere to go, and that was about it. Everyone had the same opportunity. No followup with the immigrant and nothing else remarkable to fill out. If you wanted to become a citizen, that too was also very easy, maybe only a page or two to fill out.

 

Pre and post Revolutionary War time, most my immigrant ancestors came as indentured servants or they were promised land in exchange for moving over. Immigrant 'law' if you want to call it that, were states rights type of thing, rather Libertarian in nature but some states did have rules regarding what type of religion an immigrant had to be - Catholics, Muslims, and Jews may have been excluded - so some quickly adapted to hiding their heritages.

 

For those of my ancestors that lived in border towns before places like Texas and the southwest even became states, they were definitely one with both nationalities and were free to travel and farm anywhere. And still those that came through Canada into the states, I really can't find any 'legal' documentation at all. They seemed to come and go and live as they pleased. Immigrating legally as a concept really wasn't the same way it is now. As long as you were coming for whatever reason and weren't 'problematic' (a definition that changed depending on sentiment at the time) you were left alone without 'big brother' looming over one's shoulder. 

[laylalex 7,300]

24 minutes ago, Sparkle Sparkle said:

Are you going to argue that people don't game the system using B1/B2 visas?

No, I'm not. But the vast majority of people who receive B1/B2 visas do NOT game the system. Ditto for the VWP. It happens, and it's a legal route. Just because a few people game the system doesn't mean the ability to adjust should be tossed out. And it is harder for people adjusting from a VWP -- they have no right of appeal. There needs to be flexibility and discretion in adjudicating cases, and I think there should be more scrutiny. I have made that clear. Life isn't black or white, or on or off, and weird things happen in people's lives that make adjusting appropriate sometimes. Look at what is happening right now -- if you read the COVID19 forum, there are a ton of people who were visiting the US when the lockdowns happened, and couldn't get home. Why should they not be able to adjust if they had the option to? 

 

Or you could come at me if you like.  My fiance is here on an L1B and he will be adjusting later this year. When he came over here, we were already in a relationship that we were trying to figure out if we wanted to progress to marriage. Part of the reason he came here was to figure that out (I put my foot down). Now an L1 is a dual-intent visa, but it isn't correct that he came over here just to work. He got an opportunity to come here and he took it. Are we gaming the system?

[Steeleballz 7,550]

9 minutes ago, Georgia16 said:

Just as easy to overstay on a B2 visa. No what they should do is not make it possible for anyone to adjust status from inside the country from visitor visas and overstays. 

 

    Those who legislate immigration law have given this more consideration over the years than any individual can. They are not going to change it. As far as USCIS is concerned, the B2 is working as intended. They are aware that some people will adjust status and the law addresses those situations specifically. They are not concerned that a few people using the K-1 are perturbed about a perceived injustice of someone cutting in line. 

[Sparkle Sparkle 914]

4 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    Those who legislate immigration law have given this more consideration over the years than any individual can. They are not going to change it. As far as USCIS is concerned, the B2 is working as intended. They are aware that some people will adjust status and the law addresses those situations specifically. They are not concerned that a few people using the K-1 are perturbed about a perceived injustice of someone cutting in line. 

And we are not. K1 is relatively a new kid on the block...B1/B2 's have always existed and folks have always gone through with AOS using them.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Sparkle Sparkle

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 hour ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I personally know several people who straight up gamed the system 

 

  So do I, and they would have done it with either a B2 or a K1. There is nothing magical about one over the other if one decides to misuse them. 

 

 

[Georgia16 2,858]

24 minutes ago, Sparkle Sparkle said:

 @Georgia16 I totally agree with you but with exception to student visas.

Fiances wait an average of 6 -8 months, spouses and family members wait years (Pre CoviD)  ....just for B1/B2 to get a visa in a week and adjust status and you say its fair? all am saying is that it is a loophole that needs to be closed

Where did I say it was fair? I said tourist visa and overstays. 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

6 minutes ago, Sparkle Sparkle said:

And we are not. K1 is relatively a new kid on the block...B1/B2 's have always existed and folks have always gone through with AOS using them.

 

  Perhaps you are not. It's been a common and recurring sentiment with some on this site over the years.  Not specifically addressed at anyone in this thread. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Steeleballz

[laylalex 7,300]

1 minute ago, Steeleballz said:

So do I, and they would have done it with either a B2 or a K1. There is nothing magical about one over the other if one decides to misuse them. 

Personally, I try not to moralize about other people's poor choices in life, particularly when they have zero effect on my own life. I can only look at the choices and decide that I would not follow the same route. I am responsible only for myself. 

[Georgia16 2,858]

10 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    Those who legislate immigration law have given this more consideration over the years than any individual can. They are not going to change it. As far as USCIS is concerned, the B2 is working as intended. They are aware that some people will adjust status and the law addresses those situations specifically. They are not concerned that a few people using the K-1 are perturbed about a perceived injustice of someone cutting in line. 

Don't really care. I said what I thought they should do and I still do not think it should be okay to adjust from a tourist visa or overstay. 

What they'll do I can't change that just as I can't change many other things I don't think they should be doing. 

It's all just an opinion. 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 minute ago, laylalex said:

Personally, I try not to moralize about other people's poor choices in life, particularly when they have zero effect on my own life. I can only look at the choices and decide that I would not follow the same route. I am responsible only for myself. 

 

   It's a bad approach. People who make the choice to game the system will eventually get caught. People from countries where it is common practice receive more scrutiny for it. That is part of the job USCIS exists to do. We don't change a law because a few people are breaking it. It's best to realize that is why the law exists. Once we get past the visceral reaction, it is apparent the B2 is working exactly as intended. The ability to adjust status is part of that. We are actually fortunate that immigration law is not modeled around public opinion. If it was, we might not have either the B2 or the K1 as options.