Canceling Yale

[TBoneTX 45,571]

This is hilarious and makes excellent points.

Quote

Canceling Yale

by Roger Kimball | June 22, 2020

 

I see that #CancelYale is trending on Twitter and elsewhere in social media.  It's a development I'd like to encourage -- not, to be frank, because I think that canceling things is a good idea.  Quite the opposite.  But if the Left is going to pursue its dream of destroying every reminder of our past it doesn’t like,  [...]

 

Continues here: https://amgreatness.com/2020/06/22/canceling-yale/  

 

[Dashinka 24,628]

4 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

This is hilarious and makes excellent points.

Why don’t all the students attending Yale, and the other Ivy League schools simply leave them in protest?

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

Acting like the left to own the left is another way of validating, and standardizing what they're doing. 

[laylalex 7,293]

I went to another (second-tier ) Ivy and we have had some genuinely interesting, thoughtful discussion on our main FB alumni page about this issue recently since our university was also named after a man who benefited from the slave trade. While there have been strident voices on both sides of this issue, discussion has for the most part been very civil among the various viewpoints, and people have been open to hearing differing opinions. What goes out in the press is often the attention grabbing headlines (see my earlier comments about clickbait) but underneath it is considered dialogue that isn't showy. Dialogue is what we need more of right now, not less, and these kind of changes (if they happen at all) need to come from within the institutions themselves and not imposed by people shouting about things on Twitter. Are there some of my fellow alumni who think the name should be changed right now? Yes, of course. I have seen the hashtag for us 🙄 but it's not going to be an immediate change, or likely any change at all. These universities are like giant freightliners that take years to change direction. God, it took decades for it to go properly coed even though men and women had been taking classes together for almost a century (women were enrolled in a separate college). 

 

I think it's important to have these discussions, and realistically I don't see Yale or my university getting their names changed any time soon. What I do see is an opportunity for these universities to address the controversy behind their names and their benefactors, and consider their roles as agents for change in the world. I don't discount all the privilege that I have from going to one of these schools (though the H-Y-P people treat us like we're a bunch of art geeks and weirdos who spend all their time painting and talking semiotics instead of ruling the world with an iron fist clenching a glass of fine port like they do ). What we can do is use that privilege to effect change in the world to address injustice in whatever field it lies -- racial, class, economic, gender, sexual orientation, religion, and on and on. 

 

Also, having looked at the hashtag on Twitter for my university, the people who are tweeting it are generally not people who are aligned with the university (as far as I can tell from profiles) and who from looking at their posts look like they align with the right rather than the left. It's meant to be provocative and to call out supposed hypocrisy. Names are important, I know that, but it is also important I think to look at the missions and achievements of an institution in the world. A name on its own has some power, but it is only a symbol at the end of the day to represent an idea or a person or a company or a university. What is the true power of changing a name if it is only to change one symbol for another, but the idea or thing or person does not change? Does renaming actually change anything except to make one group feel satisfied? And if satisfied, for how long?

 

There is power in institutions that have stood the test of time, and personally I don't think renaming Yale or any of the Ivies (I don't think any of the other Ivies are named after slave traders except Yale and mine -- Cornell and Penn were Quakers, the Earl of Dartmouth had no role I know of in the slave trade, Columbia is named after the US, Princeton's after the city, and I think John Harvard checks out) will change the real problems that exist in every one of them. I believe any change should be considered and come from inside, not without.

[Dashinka 24,628]

Remember when folks back in 2017 said, don’t worry, we just want to get rid of signs of the Confederacy?

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/08/destroying-confederate-statues-whats-end-point-washington-monument/

[Dashinka 24,628]

Just now, laylalex said:

I went to another (second-tier ) Ivy and we have had some genuinely interesting, thoughtful discussion on our main FB alumni page about this issue recently since our university was also named after a man who benefited from the slave trade. While there have been strident voices on both sides of this issue, discussion has for the most part been very civil among the various viewpoints, and people have been open to hearing differing opinions. What goes out in the press is often the attention grabbing headlines (see my earlier comments about clickbait) but underneath it is considered dialogue that isn't showy. Dialogue is what we need more of right now, not less, and these kind of changes (if they happen at all) need to come from within the institutions themselves and not imposed by people shouting about things on Twitter. Are there some of my fellow alumni who think the name should be changed right now? Yes, of course. I have seen the hashtag for us 🙄 but it's not going to be an immediate change, or likely any change at all. These universities are like giant freightliners that take years to change direction. God, it took decades for it to go properly coed even though men and women had been taking classes together for almost a century (women were enrolled in a separate college). 

 

I think it's important to have these discussions, and realistically I don't see Yale or my university getting their names changed any time soon. What I do see is an opportunity for these universities to address the controversy behind their names and their benefactors, and consider their roles as agents for change in the world. I don't discount all the privilege that I have from going to one of these schools (though the H-Y-P people treat us like we're a bunch of art geeks and weirdos who spend all their time painting and talking semiotics instead of ruling the world with an iron fist clenching a glass of fine port like they do ). What we can do is use that privilege to effect change in the world to address injustice in whatever field it lies -- racial, class, economic, gender, sexual orientation, religion, and on and on. 

 

Also, having looked at the hashtag on Twitter for my university, the people who are tweeting it are generally not people who are aligned with the university (as far as I can tell from profiles) and who from looking at their posts look like they align with the right rather than the left. It's meant to be provocative and to call out supposed hypocrisy. Names are important, I know that, but it is also important I think to look at the missions and achievements of an institution in the world. A name on its own has some power, but it is only a symbol at the end of the day to represent an idea or a person or a company or a university. What is the true power of changing a name if it is only to change one symbol for another, but the idea or thing or person does not change? Does renaming actually change anything except to make one group feel satisfied? And if satisfied, for how long?

 

There is power in institutions that have stood the test of time, and personally I don't think renaming Yale or any of the Ivies (I don't think any of the other Ivies are named after slave traders except Yale and mine -- Cornell and Penn were Quakers, the Earl of Dartmouth had no role I know of in the slave trade, Columbia is named after the US, Princeton's after the city, and I think John Harvard checks out) will change the real problems that exist in every one of them. I believe any change should be considered and come from inside, not without.

The BLM movement does not want dialogue, they want Marxism plain and simple by any means necessary.  Additionally, all dialogue today exists on Twitter and FB and the loudest protestors cancel anyone who is even trying to be rational.  Everyone is afraid of being canceled today, and these protesters do not care how “Woke” anyone may have appeared, and being labeled a racist.  We can thank the Democrats For fomenting this movement, but they will lose control of it as well.

[laylalex 7,293]

1 minute ago, Dashinka said:

The BLM movement does not want dialogue, they want Marxism plain and simple by any means necessary.  Additionally, all dialogue today exists on Twitter and FB and the loudest protestors cancel anyone who is even trying to be rational.  Everyone is afraid of being canceled today, and these protesters do not care how “Woke” anyone may have appeared, and being labeled a racist.  We can thank the Democrats For fomenting this movement, but they will lose control of it as well.

Really, you read my post and that's what you took from it? I will repeat myself: change at Yale and Brown will come from within, not without, and will take time because these institutions are huge and resistant to change. It took years for the universities to divest from South Africa during Apartheid despite ongoing, loud protests. Getting women admitted took years despite ongoing, loud protests. Universities are looking to preserve their endowments and bottom lines, and will not make changes unless absolutely necessary. BLM is a voice among many the universities will consider -- they aren't worried about being cancelled. People will still go to Yale because of the name, even if it never changes, even the most "woke" people you could think of. Nobody thinks of Brown much (we know) but it's going to come out of this unchanged too. 

 

These institutions are powerful enough to ignore, for better or worse, BLM. Don't hold your breath expecting a change. I'm not.

[Dashinka 24,628]

12 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Really, you read my post and that's what you took from it? I will repeat myself: change at Yale and Brown will come from within, not without, and will take time because these institutions are huge and resistant to change. It took years for the universities to divest from South Africa during Apartheid despite ongoing, loud protests. Getting women admitted took years despite ongoing, loud protests. Universities are looking to preserve their endowments and bottom lines, and will not make changes unless absolutely necessary. BLM is a voice among many the universities will consider -- they aren't worried about being cancelled. People will still go to Yale because of the name, even if it never changes, even the most "woke" people you could think of. Nobody thinks of Brown much (we know) but it's going to come out of this unchanged too. 

 

These institutions are powerful enough to ignore, for better or worse, BLM. Don't hold your breath expecting a change. I'm not.

That is where I think you are wrong.  In today’s environment the change will be forced on these institutions lest they be canceled.  The Marxist movement does not care what the “insiders” think, and in fact if they actually do start putting pressure on Yale or Brown to change, if anyone disagrees with them even with logic, it will not be heard.  Heck, look at CHOPistan, that is the model, and from that the cancel culture is rampant.  I for one am not advocating any changes, history, warts and all, is beneficial for society, but the BLM movement does not care.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

55 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

The BLM movement does not want dialogue, they want Marxism plain and simple by any means necessary.  Additionally, all dialogue today exists on Twitter and FB and the loudest protestors cancel anyone who is even trying to be rational.  Everyone is afraid of being canceled today, and these protesters do not care how “Woke” anyone may have appeared, and being labeled a racist.  We can thank the Democrats For fomenting this movement, but they will lose control of it as well.

"Just protesting.."

 

*Pulls down statues of anyone*

*Torches buildings*

*Loots stores*

*Attacks people*

*Harasses sponsors*

*Works to censor opposing viewpoints*

*Seizes parts of cities*

 

As always, when these people don't get rebuffed right away, it always escalates. Authoritarians have an appetite that can't be satiated. It's never about A, it's about A-Z, and it's a process. We learned that about gun control thanks to the Brady Foundation, and along with the wonderful schools of thought propagated by Marx and fine tuned by Engels, Horkheimer, et al. We knew that when the UK used the premise of terrorism for the US 9/11 for instituting their ridiculous CCTV program that it would inevitably be used comprehensively, and indeed, it's used as expected, to bully people into a behavior authoritarians declare acceptable. 

 

The right unfortunately are placated by pointless, hollow victories.. Shapiro OWNS the libs! Look, hypocrite lefty! Look, another hypocrite lefty! Look, more hypocrisy! Whoops, lefty rekt. Meanwhile, the left are tearing **** apart and radically transforming things in a heartbeat, without even having the Presidency or Congress. It's not just the left's militant authoritarian normalizing that worries me, it's what happens when they awake a sleeping beast that's patiently waited. Then the real chaos begins. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[laylalex 7,293]

1 hour ago, Dashinka said:

That is where I think you are wrong.  In today’s environment the change will be forced on these institutions lest they be canceled.  The Marxist movement does not care what the “insiders” think, and in fact if they actually do start putting pressure on Yale or Brown to change, if anyone disagrees with them even with logic, it will not be heard.  Heck, look at CHOPistan, that is the model, and from that the cancel culture is rampant.  I for one am not advocating any changes, history, warts and all, is beneficial for society, but the BLM movement does not care.

With all due respect, I am guessing I probably have a better idea of how these institutions work and their reactions to social movements and upheaval having been both in and of one. Marxists have zero pull at the Ivies outside of the philosophy and economics departments, and the ethnic studies departments are not powerful in the slightest and continually marginalized and underfunded (which is an ongoing issue at Yale and Harvard from what I have heard) while being told how important they are. I am closer to seeing how the sausage is made so to speak, have access to discussions you do not have simply because I am an alum. People make a LOT of guesses about how "woke" or PC these places are but they really aren't. They're still run by a bunch of monied, older men who are very much of the establishment. Much of what is done to look sensitive to social movements is window dressing. The only big thing I can think of at all is when they renamed a college at Yale that honored John Calhoun who really was an execrable human being, and that was, from what I understand, decades in coming. 

[TBoneTX 45,571]

11 hours ago, laylalex said:

Columbia is named after the US

Then it needs to be Canceled.

11 hours ago, laylalex said:

the name should be changed right now

You're right -- it should now be Black University.  If the change isn't made immediately and with abject groveling, the place needs to be Canceled.

[Dashinka 24,628]

9 hours ago, laylalex said:

With all due respect, I am guessing I probably have a better idea of how these institutions work and their reactions to social movements and upheaval having been both in and of one. Marxists have zero pull at the Ivies outside of the philosophy and economics departments, and the ethnic studies departments are not powerful in the slightest and continually marginalized and underfunded (which is an ongoing issue at Yale and Harvard from what I have heard) while being told how important they are. I am closer to seeing how the sausage is made so to speak, have access to discussions you do not have simply because I am an alum. People make a LOT of guesses about how "woke" or PC these places are but they really aren't. They're still run by a bunch of monied, older men who are very much of the establishment. Much of what is done to look sensitive to social movements is window dressing. The only big thing I can think of at all is when they renamed a college at Yale that honored John Calhoun who really was an execrable human being, and that was, from what I understand, decades in coming. 

I don’t know, mob rule can be very compelling to these types of institutions.  I am not sure that donations to organizations such as BLM will mollify them. 

[TBoneTX 45,571]

3 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

not sure that donations to organizations such as BLM will mollify them. 

Nothing will EVER be enough.

[Dashinka 24,628]

2 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Nothing will EVER be enough.

As always, VDH hits the nail right on the head.

 

Victor Davis Hanson: 2020 Election Is A "Manichean Choice" Between Civilization And Anarchy
 

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/06/23/victor_davis_hanson_2020_election_is_a_manichean_choice_between_civilization_and_anarchy.html

[laylalex 7,293]

16 hours ago, Dashinka said:

I don’t know, mob rule can be very compelling to these types of institutions.  I am not sure that donations to organizations such as BLM will mollify them. 

Meant to reply earlier, whoops. And errrrr, back to topic.

 

These places are small-c conservative. If it doesn't help grow the endowment, they really don't care too much. What grows the endowment? Well, a solid and creative investment strategy of course. But also alumni donations, large and small. I get hit up regularly -- almost worse than the all the texts I got from the Bernie campaign!  Anyway, the large donations tend to come from older, more established donors who, by and large, tend to skew Big-C Conservative. It's not much of a guess to think that these donors don't care about BLM -- they're against it, apathetic, or support its aims generally, but wouldn't want anything to change at the place they think of so fondly. I give generously (not multi-million dollar donations, but substantial) with an earmark for student aid, since I believe this is the most important thing the university should be doing with my money -- making an education as accessible as possible to prospective students, regardless of race/sex/gender identity/political bent/ethnicity/etc. I was a beneficiary myself -- even with two parents in the professions, that doesn't mean they could afford full price.

 

Twitter randos don't register on the radar of university in any way that is meaningful, unless those Twitter users have a connection to the community. Even then, one or two outraged students or alumni aren't going to be more than a blip. As they always say, follow the money. The money is flowing from people who don't want the names of these universities changed, and if even a few of these donors cut off the flow of cash, it would be bad for the bottom line. If people tweeting hashtags can figure out how to out-shout guys giving millions of dollars that are the lifeblood of these institutions, I will be truly impressed!!!