How we met and Evidence of ongoing relationship

[Pack88 4]

   Like most of you,  a long time ago, I am at that bewildering moment when I am starting to complete the I-129-F and am routinely puzzled by what I feel are  trap questions but it is probably just an overabundance of caution and not wanting USCIS  to slow my application down while they ask for more information; so with that disclaimer aside here are my questions and I will appreciate any helpful advice!  

 

   I have now completed my I-129-f but I have questions about 2 sections of the form that leave me unsettled. 

 

1)  These items are item 53 and 54 which requires proof an in in-person meeting within 2 years.  This question is seemingly  very straight forward but it rather converges with another question that I cannot find a reference to in the instruction manual but every cover page has it listed and that is proof of a bona fide relationship and here is where my question begins.  Sample letter that seems similar to my story (I met my fiance(e) on Cherry Blossoms seems to travel two paths

a)  indicates the name of the web site and then wanders  down a rabbit hole of enclosures of Imbra statements from Cherry Blossoms and so on.  

b)  indicates they met on-line and cautions not to mention the website .

 

So my request is advice from anybody who has recently applied and struggled with this issue and what route did you take and did you have any problems as a result!

 

2)  Proof of a bonda fide and on going relationship.  The second part of my question revolves around proof of an ongoing relationship.  In the very early stages of the relationship there are a few e-mails but for the past months we have been taking advantage of skype free-calling which does not generate chat logs.  The standard other items requested (Xmas Cards Birthday cards I have) but worry about how to prove continuing contact 

 to my lady.  I kept a journal for 3 months of time and date of calls but would appreciate any advice from files who had the same concern.  

Thanks for reading this and I assume that this will be my last missive.  Eve though I can't file until Sep my packet will be complete once I slay these two problems

Pack88

 

 

 

 

 

[geowrian 22,338]

14 minutes ago, Pack88 said:

1)  These items are item 53 and 54 which requires proof an in in-person meeting within 2 years.  This question is seemingly  very straight forward but it rather converges with another question that I cannot find a reference to in the instruction manual but every cover page has it listed and that is proof of a bona fide relationship and here is where my question begins.  Sample letter that seems similar to my story (I met my fiance(e) on Cherry Blossoms seems to travel two paths

a)  indicates the name of the web site and then wanders  down a rabbit hole of enclosures of Imbra statements from Cherry Blossoms and so on.  

b)  indicates they met on-line and cautions not to mention the website .

Where does the I-129F mention proof (evidence, really) of a bona fide relationship?

If you mean the cover letter includes it, the one on VJ says "[if including]", implying it's not required.

Whether to include it or not for the CO to see later is a decision based on the individual circumstances...mainly the embassy or consulate involved. Manila, for instance, doesn't really need it. It doesn't hurt to include some, but I would not worry too much there.

 

Anyway...back to the IMB stuff.

I highly suggest providing the initial point of contact + evidence that they are not an IMB. IMBRA statements/disclosures are only needed for IMBs, and I don't believe Cherry Blossoms is one (this is off memory from years ago...always verify). You need evidence that they are not an IMB, such as the TOS, documentation from them, etc.

 

I've seen some people do option b and not have any issue. I've also seen people do the same and get an RFE for the information noted above.

As such, my advice is to get out in front of it and avoid a possible RFE in the first place by providing all the information needed...instead of hoping the Io assigned to your case doesn't want to see it.

[AJ2019 58]

1) We mentioned we were first introduced via website, and we submitted website Terms and Conditions showing it wasn't a Marriage Broker; aka triggering IMBRA.

 

2) Proof of bona fide relationship - USCIS places higher weights on in-person meetings rather than chat/phone logs. We submitted them because we were concerned as you, but the requirement is the in-person meeting in past two years, and they look for proof of those more so than anything else you submit; i.e. boarding passes, hotel stays, receipts, photos, etc.

 

I hope this helps! Good Luck!

[user555 196]

I did a spousal visa, but I'll tell you what I did. I met her on OkCupid. I didn't send in the terms of service to show they weren't violating IMBRA but told the US gov what site we met on. I also included a lot of proof of my visits. Airplane boarding passes, passport stamps, hotel receipts, etc. I guess it depends on the guy reviewing your case. I was approved for the I-130 in five months (estimated time was 8 months). I did a history of chat, email, Facebook, Skype, etc. Anything that shows timestamps and shows that from this month to that month, there was a continous conversation happening. IMHO, chat logs are given a low weight to the overall score. 

 

Photos of you together with the dates

Photos of you with your respective families

Finances, receipts, joint bank accounts

Stamp in your passport for the 2 year requirement 

Airline tickets 

Hotel receipts 

Other receipts showing your visits

Viber, Skype, Facebook and chat records

Ring receipt

Proof of your wedding that should take place (rental agreement, location, invatation, etc) 

Affidavidts from friends and family

Edited June 16, 2020 by user555

[payxibka 10,047]

Proof of bonafide relationship- USCIS  places NO weight on this

[user555 196]

5 minutes ago, payxibka said:

Proof of bonafide relationship- USCIS  places NO weight on this

"Your marriage must be valid, meaning both you and your fiancé(e) have a bona fide intent to establish a life together and the marriage is not for the sole purpose of obtaining an immigration benefit." 
https://www.uscis.gov/family/family-us-citizens/visas-fiancees-us-citizens 

What better way to prove a "bona fide intent to establish a life together" in the future than providing a history of evidence that the current relationship is strong? 

[payxibka 10,047]

1 minute ago, user555 said:

"Your marriage must be valid, meaning both you and your fiancé(e) have a bona fide intent to establish a life together and the marriage is not for the sole purpose of obtaining an immigration benefit." 
https://www.uscis.gov/family/family-us-citizens/visas-fiancees-us-citizens 

What better way to prove a "bona fide intent to establish a life together" in the future than providing a history of evidence that the current relationship is strong? 

Its called a statement of intent.  That is by far the best way 

[geowrian 22,338]

2 minutes ago, user555 said:

"Your marriage must be valid, meaning both you and your fiancé(e) have a bona fide intent to establish a life together and the marriage is not for the sole purpose of obtaining an immigration benefit." 
https://www.uscis.gov/family/family-us-citizens/visas-fiancees-us-citizens 

What better way to prove a "bona fide intent to establish a life together" in the future than providing a history of evidence that the current relationship is strong? 

You skipped the definition, right after that line :

"Your marriage must be valid, meaning both you and your fiancé(e) have a bona fide intent to establish a life together and the marriage is not for the sole purpose of obtaining an immigration benefit."

 

But note this is for the visa. The petition does not have any such requirement.

I have never seen an RFE or denial of an I-129F for a fiance/fiancee due to lack of relationship evidence. Providing such evidence is not in the instructions.

 

14 minutes ago, user555 said:

I did a spousal visa, but I'll tell you what I did. I met her on OkCupid. I didn't send in the terms of service to show they weren't violating IMBRA

Spousal visas are not subject to IMBRA. How you first met doesn't matter in your case. It can matter in the OP's case.

[user555 196]

6 minutes ago, geowrian said:

You skipped the definition, right after that line :

"Your marriage must be valid, meaning both you and your fiancé(e) have a bona fide intent to establish a life together and the marriage is not for the sole purpose of obtaining an immigration benefit."

 

But note this is for the visa. The petition does not have any such requirement.

I have never seen an RFE or denial of an I-129F for a fiance/fiancee due to lack of relationship evidence. Providing such evidence is not in the instructions.

 

Spousal visas are not subject to IMBRA. How you first met doesn't matter in your case. It can matter in the OP's case.

Yes, I agree that the K-1 doesn't specifically ask for these things. 

However, others have noted denials in Manila for a lack of evidence. 

 

https://www.philipcurtislaw.com/news/2018/2/18/evidencing-a-bona-fide-relationship-in-a-k1-fiance-visa-petition

Sometimes I feel like a broken record saying this but K1 visa applications are won and lost based on the strength of the supporting documentation. One of the most common reasons for the denial of K1 visas at the consular level is failure to establish that the relationship between the U.S. Citizen petitioner and the foreign national fiance or fiancee is bona fide. In simple terms, this means that the applicant didn't convince the consular officer that the relationship was legitimate and not simply for the purposes of obtaining a visa to the U.S.

I have reviewed several cases that were denied at the consular level on these grounds. In most cases, I felt that the relationship was legitimate and did not suspect any fraudulent intent. What I do find, in 99% of these cases, is a lack of compelling evidence regarding the legitimacy of the fiance/fiancee relationship. The oral or written statements of the applicant and the petitioner and a few pictures are not sufficient to establish a bona fide fiance relationship. This is especially true at post such as Manila, Kiev, and Ho Chi Minh City where allegedly high levels of fraud have resulted in increased scrutiny of all K1 cases.

[payxibka 10,047]

27 minutes ago, user555 said:

Yes, I agree that the K-1 doesn't specifically ask for these things. 

However, others have noted denials in Manila for a lack of evidence. 

 

https://www.philipcurtislaw.com/news/2018/2/18/evidencing-a-bona-fide-relationship-in-a-k1-fiance-visa-petition

Sometimes I feel like a broken record saying this but K1 visa applications are won and lost based on the strength of the supporting documentation. One of the most common reasons for the denial of K1 visas at the consular level is failure to establish that the relationship between the U.S. Citizen petitioner and the foreign national fiance or fiancee is bona fide. In simple terms, this means that the applicant didn't convince the consular officer that the relationship was legitimate and not simply for the purposes of obtaining a visa to the U.S.

I have reviewed several cases that were denied at the consular level on these grounds. In most cases, I felt that the relationship was legitimate and did not suspect any fraudulent intent. What I do find, in 99% of these cases, is a lack of compelling evidence regarding the legitimacy of the fiance/fiancee relationship. The oral or written statements of the applicant and the petitioner and a few pictures are not sufficient to establish a bona fide fiance relationship. This is especially true at post such as Manila, Kiev, and Ho Chi Minh City where allegedly high levels of fraud have resulted in increased scrutiny of all K1 cases.

Such evidence is presented at the interview not the petition stage.  

[DaveAndAnastasia 2,096]

That's at the interview stage. You are working on the petition stage.

 

Also, anecdotally, Manila is not a difficult embassy/consulate by any measure for K-1s. Lumping them in with Kiev (which is also not bad by most reports here; although Ukraine is where the vast majority of 'Russian bride' scam sites operate out of, the women from those sites almost always have absolutely no intention of marrying the western guys they're defrauding) and HCMC (which actually is a difficult embassy) seems bizarre, and just seems like clickbait for the much larger number of K-1 applicants from the Philippines.

[payxibka 10,047]

2 minutes ago, DaveAndAnastasia said:

That's at the interview stage. You are working on the petition stage.

 

Also, anecdotally, Manila is not a difficult embassy/consulate by any measure for K-1s. Lumping them in with Kiev (which is also not bad by most reports here; although Ukraine is where the vast majority of 'Russian bride' scam sites operate out of, the women from those sites almost always have absolutely no intention of marrying the western guys they're defrauding) and HCMC (which actually is a difficult embassy) seems bizarre, and just seems like clickbait for the much larger number of K-1 applicants from the Philippines.

I Agree and this is coming from someone who has participated in the k1 process in both Manila and Kiev 

[geowrian 22,338]

31 minutes ago, user555 said:

Yes, I agree that the K-1 doesn't specifically ask for these things. 

However, others have noted denials in Manila for a lack of evidence. 

 

https://www.philipcurtislaw.com/news/2018/2/18/evidencing-a-bona-fide-relationship-in-a-k1-fiance-visa-petition

Sometimes I feel like a broken record saying this but K1 visa applications are won and lost based on the strength of the supporting documentation. One of the most common reasons for the denial of K1 visas at the consular level is failure to establish that the relationship between the U.S. Citizen petitioner and the foreign national fiance or fiancee is bona fide. In simple terms, this means that the applicant didn't convince the consular officer that the relationship was legitimate and not simply for the purposes of obtaining a visa to the U.S.

I have reviewed several cases that were denied at the consular level on these grounds. In most cases, I felt that the relationship was legitimate and did not suspect any fraudulent intent. What I do find, in 99% of these cases, is a lack of compelling evidence regarding the legitimacy of the fiance/fiancee relationship. The oral or written statements of the applicant and the petitioner and a few pictures are not sufficient to establish a bona fide fiance relationship. This is especially true at post such as Manila, Kiev, and Ho Chi Minh City where allegedly high levels of fraud have resulted in increased scrutiny of all K1 cases.

As other noted, that's at the embassy stage, not the petition.

Manila especially doesn't fall in here...unless something has changed very recently, you don't know what CO will get your case until you are lined up a their window. And they don't know who they will get until you show up in front of them. The relationship evidence is only viewed at that time...submitting it with the I-129F does nothing here really as the CO has not had an opportunity to look at it beforehand..

 

That is not the case at all embassies or consulates...some are known to review the I-129F packet prior to the interview. Front-loading decisions in those case may receive different advice.

[user555 196]

Yes, the way I read the OP's statement was that he was preparing for the application stage and he was preparing for the interview stage. So two stages that require different different things. For the application stage, you don't need a lot of evidence. Just the application and the proof of meeting during the past 2 years. For the final interview stage, you need evidence to show the CO. The OP was wanting to start gathering evidence for that stage too. This website is great for a DIY person. If you look at the amount of K1 visas issued by the States and look at how many members are here for Filipinas/Filipinos, you know that the stories here are less than 10% of all visas issued. There are a lot of other people that use lawyers, visa agencies, etc. So even though all their stories are not reported here, their stories of being accepted or denied are posted elsewhere on the internet and are valid. 

[Carpe Vinum 2,330]

OP. Sent you a PM

Edited June 17, 2020 by boris64