DV and F1 visa

[m17122018 15]

2 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

Entering a lottery is not immigrant intent. 20 million people a year enter. Many of them have no problem getting an immigrant visa. Facial recognition picked up entrants long before passport numbers. People have mentioned before having discussed DV entries in their successful non immigrant visa interviews. On the other hand a lot of F1 applications get denied  with never having entered the lottery. It’s amazing what people come up with as reasons. I have no doubt she was denied under 214b, that’s common, but entering a lottery is not sufficient for that finding. Obviously as you already said there must have been other factors. 

Honestly, let’s just hope the ban gets lifted and I don’t even have to consider it. 
What do you think will happen with that? 
I have been seeing a lot of news lately but nothing for sure 

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

I don’t speculate on things like that, it’s pointless imo. 

[m17122018 15]

1 hour ago, SusieQQQ said:

I don’t speculate on things like that, it’s pointless imo. 

I know, but I cannot help it, it has me super worried. Sorry.

[geowrian 22,337]

4 hours ago, m17122018 said:

It’s not speculation, it happened to her at the embassy in Madrid (which is not a complicated one).

I don't think the refused F-1 was being disputed, but it is speculation as to what exactly caused the refusal. Blaming it on the DV application is like blaming it on the shirt color they wore that day...there's no way to prove or disprove that was the reason.

Plenty of people who enter the lottery do get NIVs issued still.

[m17122018 15]

10 minutes ago, geowrian said:

I don't think the refused F-1 was being disputed, but it is speculation as to what exactly caused the refusal. Blaming it on the DV application is like blaming it on the shirt color they wore that day...there's no way to prove or disprove that was the reason.

Plenty of people who enter the lottery do get NIVs issued still.

I agree some other things might have played a part, and I was not there to see this for myself, but that was the reason she was given. In any case, better be safe than sorry this time.

[geowrian 22,337]

1 minute ago, m17122018 said:

I agree some other things might have played a part, and I was not there to see this for myself, but that was the reason she was given. In any case, better be safe than sorry this time.

The DV application was specifically stated as a reason by the CO?

Or they just got a 214(b) due to immigrant intent and are attributing it to the DV application?

[m17122018 15]

13 minutes ago, geowrian said:

The DV application was specifically stated as a reason by the CO?

Or they just got a 214(b) due to immigrant intent and are attributing it to the DV application?

She hired a lawyer and they appealed or whatever that process is called (do not take the word "appeal" too seriously because it might not be the correct term) and they said that because she had applied and was selected and what not, they had doubts with the intent of going back to her home country and with the whole not wanting to immigrate. 

Again, obviously this was all said in a much more professional and legal way, but despite all my efforts to channel my inner Elle Woods, I am not a lawyer or know the proper terms.

 

But, honestly, unless the whole DV 2021 gets cancelled because of the ban (which seems to be highly unlikely even if the ban gets extended) I personally think it'll be better to pursue the GC rather than the F1. Because at this point, with embassies closed and given they will probably be extremely backed up once they resume issuing visas, I won't get my F1 before August when the in person classes will begin so I will have to defer any way. Now it's only a matter of knowing if they will let me defer BOTH the TA and the program and if the change in my legal status will affect my acceptance (which it should not, because I am the same person one way or another)

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

44 minutes ago, m17122018 said:

She hired a lawyer and they appealed or whatever that process is called (do not take the word "appeal" too seriously because it might not be the correct term) and they said that because she had applied and was selected and what not, they had doubts with the intent of going back to her home country and with the whole not wanting to immigrate. 

 

Ok this passport number being blamed is now demonstrably false - because the passport requirement only came in last year’s entry forms for the first time, and those selected using that basis have literally only just been notified this past Saturday. So she could not have both already been selected and claimed passport number in the entry form as a problem back in February. 
More likely what happened: she was selected the previous year and they suspected that once she was in the US on a student visa, she would adjust status. That is a perfectly valid 214b rejection, for intended misuse of a NIV. (And much more relevant to your specific case to begin with, as we had said back early in the thread...)

 

The doctrine of consular non-reviewability means a consular denial cannot be appealed, by the way.

Edited June 10, 2020 by SusieQQQ

[Just Paul 4,595]

38 minutes ago, m17122018 said:

Because at this point, with embassies closed and given they will probably be extremely backed up once they resume issuing visas, I won't get my F1 before August when the in person classes will begin so I will have to defer any way.

Having worked in the F1 space I can tell you that you need be ready to submit the F1 now to be there in August assuming the school is going to be open, etc.  A TA isn't just going to show up a week before classes. I;m sure you would be expected to be there as soon as the 30 day window opens.  The school needs to get the DS-2019 done.  In a non COVID19 environment, consulates would have been ready for the F/M/J rush for the start of an academic year by having more slots open for those.  Now no one knows. If the EOs continue and the consulates reman quickly there should be some slots available.

 

I do agree with @SusieQQQ but as of this moment there are a lot of unknowns but getting the DS-2019 doesn't cost you anything.  Then later you can make the decision about paying the SEVIS and Visa fees.   Plus a denial of a NIV visa won't impact the DV.

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

There have been indications that the embassies are planning to prioritize student visa issuance when they reopen because of the looming time crunch.

[m17122018 15]

11 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

Ok this passport number being blamed is now demonstrably false - because the passport requirement only came in last year’s entry forms for the first time, and those selected using that basis have literally only just been notified this past Saturday. So she could not have both already been selected and claimed passport number in the entry form as a problem back in February. 
More likely what happened: she was selected the previous year and they suspected that once she was in the US on a student visa, she would adjust status. That is a perfectly valid 214b rejection, for intended misuse of a NIV. (And much more relevant to your specific case to begin with, as we had said back early in the thread...)

 

The doctrine of consular non-reviewability means a consular denial cannot be appealed, by the way.

Okay so most definitely I should not apply for an F1 as they could suspect I would adjust status once in the country as soon as my case number becomes current. That doubt is solved, thanks!! 

 

3 minutes ago, Paul & Mary said:

Having worked in the F1 space I can tell you that you need be ready to submit the F1 now to be there in August assuming the school is going to be open, etc.  A TA isn't just going to show up a week before classes. I;m sure you would be expected to be there as soon as the 30 day window opens.  The school needs to get the DS-2019 done.  In a non COVID19 environment, consulates would have been ready for the F/M/J rush for the start of an academic year by having more slots open for those.  Now no one knows. If the EOs continue and the consulates reman quickly there should be some slots available.

 

I do agree with @SusieQQQ but as of this moment there are a lot of unknowns but getting the DS-2019 doesn't cost you anything.  Then later you can make the decision about paying the SEVIS and Visa fees.   Plus a denial of a NIV visa won't impact the DV.

I have my I20 but that's it, I could fill my DS160 but I was waiting it out to be honest given I cannot make a visa appointment. And like you said, as a TA I am supposed to report to school a week before classes begin, so first week of August, given we are in mid June and visas are not being issued PLUS the embassy in Spain not knowing when they will open (but not until the end of June at least because of the lockdown phases) and if we have to go through the 14 days of quarantine if we are allowed to travel at all, that will mean travelling by mid July... I honestly do not see the timelines adding up at all, there is just not enough time.

[geowrian 22,337]

34 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

The doctrine of consular non-reviewability means a consular denial cannot be appealed, by the way.

More specifically, it means their decisions are not subject to judicial review.

In general, a refusal can be appealed (there have been limited success stories) to show that it does not apply or can be overcome. But a refusal under 214(b) for immigrant intent cannot be appealed as that is solely at the CO's discretion.

Also (I know you're aware but for any others), no single factor is the sole reason for being unable to overcome the presumption of immigrant intent. It's always based upon the CO's understanding of their entire set of circumstances.

 

7 minutes ago, m17122018 said:

Okay so most definitely I should not apply for an F1 as they could suspect I would adjust status once in the country as soon as my case number becomes current. That doubt is solved, thanks!!

I don't think this was necessarily implied. They may or may not reach that conclusion (the burden is on you to overcome the presumption that you intent to immigrate via that visa), but it has no impact on the DV application. The only way it would be an issue there is if you made a material misrepresentation in the process.

 

The risk is if you apply for any visa and are subsequently refused, it may (likely would) impact your eligibility for an ESTA (to visit for up to 90 days visa-free).

Edited June 10, 2020 by geowrian

[SusieQQQ 11,586]

15 minutes ago, geowrian said:

don't think this was necessarily implied. They may or may not reach that conclusion (the burden is on you to overcome the presumption that you intent to immigrate via that visa),

In this particular situation gonna be a hard assumption to overcome in my opinion, as OP’s case number is likely to be current while he is there on his student visa, so adjustment is the obvious route. You could try argue to a CO that you’d return home to do consular processing but for most DV applicants that is the less logical route.  I agree it’s not a hard “don’t try” but I think the odds are against him. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by SusieQQQ

[m17122018 15]

12 minutes ago, geowrian said:

More specifically, it means their decisions are not subject to judicial review.

In general, a refusal can be appealed (there have been limited success stories) to show that it does not apply or can be overcome. But a refusal under 214(b) for immigrant intent cannot be appealed as that is solely at the CO's discretion.

Also (I know you're aware but for any others), no single factor is the sole reason for being unable to overcome the presumption of immigrant intent. It's always based upon the CO's understanding of their entire set of circumstances.

 

I don't think this was necessarily implied. They may or may not reach that conclusion (the burden is on you to overcome the presumption that you intent to immigrate via that visa), but it has no impact on the DV application. The only way it would be an issue there is if you made a material misrepresentation in the process.

 

The risk is if you apply for any visa and are subsequently refused, it may (likely would) impact your eligibility for an ESTA (to visit for up to 90 days visa-free).

No, no that it was implied. Sorry for the misunderstanding. It's more that, given how worried I am about it all, given my concerns do have some grounds to them (so like it is not something so far fetched or that it an imaginary problem I have created in my mind because I am nervous) and all the answers I have gotten and information I have gathered, I think the safest thing (specially with the whole covid situation making things worse) is for me to not pursue an F1. 

 

 

 

hat about the other way' Would getting the GC denied (I do not have any reason why it might be, again it is just me being too worried) be a problem for a future F1? 

[m17122018 15]

6 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

In this particular situation gonna be a hard assumption to overcome in my opinion, as OP’s case number is likely to be current while he is there on his student visa, so adjustment is the obvious route. You could try argue to a CO that you’d return home to do consular processing but for most DV applicants that is the less logical route.  I agree it’s not a hard “don’t try” but I think the odds are against him. 

Completely agree with you. My number might even become current before I can travel, if I cannot get my visa before August the school has said I have to either defer for spring or take online classes until spring, either way I won't be able to travel before January and there is a huge chance my number will be current before then.

In any way, the master's is two years so most definitely they will think I will try to adjust my status. I also am not comfortable telling them I have no intention to immigrate when I do clearly want to pursue the GC. It would be a whole different thing if I had not been selected I didn't know at the time of the interview; but I have so I don't have plausible deniability and it wouldn't sit right with me.

 

 

Again, thank you all so much for your help. This was not an easy decision and I couldn't have made up my mind without your help, resources and information.