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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:


   No one really knows what Trayvon said. We only have Zimmermans account of the events, and the reliability of anything Zimmerman says is not worth much.

I will concide that as a point of order, but there is little doubt Trayvon 

asualted Zimmerman.  It is also a fact Trayvon was a troubled youth with a history of violance and theft and not the innocent angel portrayed in the media   

Edited by Nature Boy 2.0
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I will concide that as a point of order, but there is little doubt Trayvon 

asualted Zimmerman.  It is also a fact Trayvon was a troubled youth with a history of violance and theft and not the innocent angel portrayed in the media   

Indeed. We also had 911 transcripts, key witnesses, forensic experts who deal with ballistics (vital in corroborating Zimmerman's account), and bumbling friends of Trayvon who inadvertently helped Zimmerman by destroying their own useless (at best) testimony. 

 

There were so many lessons learned, about the media, about race pandering, and about how not to behave after such a trial. I didn't know Zimmerman before the trial (only from what I saw of police/neighborhood testimony of him as an aggressive neighborhood watch who clearly cared about crime in his community), but what's he's been afterwards, can only be described, in nice terms, as dangerous and vile.. someone to stay the hell away from.

Edited by Burnt Reynolds
Posted
1 minute ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

Indeed. We also had 911 transcripts, key witnesses, forensic experts who deal with ballistics (vital in corroborating Zimmerman's account), and bumbling friends of Trayvon who inadvertently helped Zimmerman by destroying their own useless (at best) testimony. 

 

There were so many lessons learned, about the media, about race pandering, and about how not to behave after such a trial. I didn't know Zimmerman before the trial (only from what I saw of police/neighborhood testimony of him as an aggressive neighborhood watch who clearly cared about crime in his community), but what's he's been afterwards, can only be described, in nice terms, as dangerous and vile.. someone to stay the hell away from.

My favorite was the girl who was asked to read the statement she wrote and signed but couldnt read cursive 

Posted
11 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

My favorite was the girl who was asked to read the statement she wrote and signed but couldnt read cursive 

I wonder if the lawyers who put that strategy together advised the Dem "witnesses" in the House impeachment hearings.. notably at parts like "[reads Trump tweet to witness in a hearing], this is witness intimidation!.. do you feel intimidated Ms. Yovanovich?" 🤔

Filed: Timeline
Posted
2 hours ago, Sarge2155 said:

As  I said earlier racial discussions always end badly, post like the prior one usually start it off, but I'll not go there. It's oblivious to me where  and what standpoint that poster is coming from. On the other hand the same can be said for me I suppose!

So you are declaring boldly that you are not willing to discuss a topic with facts?  Interesting method of discourse, but hey, it's a free country (for a while, at least?).

Filed: Timeline
Posted
50 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I will concide that as a point of order, but there is little doubt Trayvon 

asualted Zimmerman.  It is also a fact Trayvon was a troubled youth with a history of violance and theft and not the innocent angel portrayed in the media   

I happen to be privy to Trayvon's youth rap sheet.  "History of violence and theft" is putting it mildly.  The kid was a menace to society, and his life wouldn't have amounted to much even if Zimmerman had been in CA on that fateful night.

Posted
4 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

So you are declaring boldly that you are not willing to discuss a topic with facts?  Interesting method of discourse, but hey, it's a free country (for a while, at least?).

I'm  doing exactly that and for good reason.

1 minute ago, Voice of Reason said:

I happen to be privy to Trayvon's youth rap sheet.  "History of violence and theft" is putting it mildly.  The kid was a menace to society, and his life wouldn't have amounted to much even if Zimmerman had been in CA on that fateful night.

This post is one of those reasons. Some  things IMO are left better unsaid at least by me anyway. In other words a person has got to know their limitations and I've about  reached mine!


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Posted
4 minutes ago, Sarge2155 said:

I'm  doing exactly that and for good reason.

This post is one of those reasons. Some  things IMO are left better unsaid at least by me anyway. In other words a person has got to know their limitations and I've about  reached mine!

allow me to speak for you so all can understand...

 

"I have nothing to counter the facts with, but I want to say something, so I will say that I have nothing to add to the discussion."

 

Ok, Sarge, we hear ya.  

Posted
6 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

allow me to speak for you so all can understand...

 

"I have nothing to counter the facts with, but I want to say something, so I will say that I have nothing to add to the discussion."

 

Ok, Sarge, we hear ya.  

Nice try, but I refuse to be goaded and last I checked I'm fully capable of speaking for myself...but thank you for YOUR explanation!


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Posted
10 minutes ago, Sarge2155 said:

Nice try, but I refuse to be goaded and last I checked I'm fully capable of speaking for myself...but thank you for YOUR explanation!

Just enjoying a man being mansplained to here..... :P 

 

At least I assume you are a he.

 

Your message is loud and clear to me, Sarge. :) 

Posted

For those of you wondering how Napolitano could theorize a first degree murder charge, it is important to note that the intent to kill does not require a significant period of time to develop. The intent may be developed in a moment, or over many years. All that is needed is deliberation and premeditation, both of which can occur in mere seconds. Is this hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt? Yes. But here Chauvin pressed on Floyd's neck for nearly nine minutes. At some point, you have to ask yourself: how could Chauvin not have expected death to result from his actions? He may have started without the intent to kill, and that seems a reasonable read of the situation. However, there is a case to be made that at some point, there was development of a deliberate decision to have his conduct result in death.

 

Realistically, of course, it would be hard to stick. But prosecutors regularly overcharge to get a result that is hopefully more equitable given the circumstances.

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Timeline
Posted
24 minutes ago, elmcitymaven said:

For those of you wondering how Napolitano could theorize a first degree murder charge, it is important to note that the intent to kill does not require a significant period of time to develop. The intent may be developed in a moment, or over many years. All that is needed is deliberation and premeditation, both of which can occur in mere seconds. Is this hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt? Yes. But here Chauvin pressed on Floyd's neck for nearly nine minutes. At some point, you have to ask yourself: how could Chauvin not have expected death to result from his actions? He may have started without the intent to kill, and that seems a reasonable read of the situation. However, there is a case to be made that at some point, there was development of a deliberate decision to have his conduct result in death.

 

Realistically, of course, it would be hard to stick. But prosecutors regularly overcharge to get a result that is hopefully more equitable given the circumstances.

Since you are around, just curious, do you see this actually going to trial?  I mean the notoriety of this incident makes me think it would be very hard to find an impartial jury almost anywhere in the US, I would think a plea may be in the mix.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Since you are around, just curious, do you see this actually going to trial?  I mean the notoriety of this incident makes me think it would be very hard to find an impartial jury almost anywhere in the US, I would think a plea may be in the mix.

There are many high profile cases, some that resulted in protests and riots. They still went to trial, and in most of them were found not guilty because of whatever reason you know? Has there ever been a cop in a clear wrongdoing case that takes a plea? Don't know of any offhand.. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, elmcitymaven said:

For those of you wondering how Napolitano could theorize a first degree murder charge, it is important to note that the intent to kill does not require a significant period of time to develop. The intent may be developed in a moment, or over many years. All that is needed is deliberation and premeditation, both of which can occur in mere seconds. Is this hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt? Yes. But here Chauvin pressed on Floyd's neck for nearly nine minutes. At some point, you have to ask yourself: how could Chauvin not have expected death to result from his actions? He may have started without the intent to kill, and that seems a reasonable read of the situation. However, there is a case to be made that at some point, there was development of a deliberate decision to have his conduct result in death.

 

Realistically, of course, it would be hard to stick. But prosecutors regularly overcharge to get a result that is hopefully more equitable given the circumstances.

I don't think anyone mentioned time, the key part of the word "premeditation" is the "pre" part, as in, before the act. You described the very same act conflating the "intent" (which actually is the defining trait of murder) with premeditation, which is flat out wrong. You might have a point if, for example (and beyond the obvious other examples of premeditation, such as discussing his intent before, or texting his intent, etc.), he put his knee on Floyd's neck, took it off, then put it back on resulting in his death. In that case, that short span of time offered the opportunity for premeditation. Of course, we know that didn't happen, or else they'd have charged him with first degree, so, out the window. Right now, the best case scenario is indeed what he's charged with.

Edited by Burnt Reynolds
 

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