Murder charge elevated to 2nd degree in George Floyd case; all four officers now face charges

[yuna628 9,700]

3 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Dont disagree but also in some cases young black men get killed by the police and its jsutfied, yet we still have riots, looting and stealing. Michael Brown comes to mind as does Treyvon Martin who was shot while beating someones face into the pavment yet the same reaction 

Well I still dispute the facts regarding the Martin case - mainly that Zimmerman didn't belong doing what he did in the first place. That being said there are too many cases where law enforcement has behaved so inappropriately it resulted in the death of an individual. I still have strong feelings about the Freddie Gray and Philandro Castile case and even the Arbrey case. And no, it is not just young black men that have suffered abuse -- did you see what happened to that 75yr old white man last night? But many cases are young black men and women being senselessly killed and abused while others equally 'presumed/assumed somehow dangerous' manage to come away unharmed and not because they were perceived as 'cooperating'. The police defense in this case will likely attempt to utilize Mr. Floyd's health history and drug use as a defense as if this should somehow be any excuse for such brutality and murder. I pray the jury doesn't buy it, but they have before. You have to ask yourself why they do and why we seemingly cannot hold so many bad cops accountable for their actions (whether it be bad policing, corruption, planting evidence, murder, abuse, harassment, putting hits on their own, and spousal abuse).

[Steeleballz 7,550]

31 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Dont disagree but also in some cases young black men get killed by the police and its jsutfied, yet we still have riots, looting and stealing. Michael Brown comes to mind as does Treyvon Martin who was shot while beating someones face into the pavment yet the same reaction 

 

   With Treyvon you are focusing on the end of the encounter. Certainly at that point something bad was going to happen to one person or the other. Now consider the beginning. Why was Treyvon confronted for walking down the street? There are more similarities to the Ahmaud Arbury murder than George Floyd. Trayvon was simply targeted because of the color of his skin. Sorry, but people who are not doing anything wrong should be able to walk down the street without being accused and provoked into a situation that ends with violence and death. 

 

  None of the protesting is a reaction in isolation either. George Floyd's death was the catalyst for the current protests, but it' would be naive to think all of this is only about Mr. Floyd's death. It was the flash point for a tangible reaction to something that has been ongoing for a long time. Watching an innocent man die on camera was not the beginning, it was the breaking point for many people. Once you get past the well known incidents, and the ones that happened by chance to be caught on camera, there is a much longer list of names that people are less familiar with. 

 

   

[Sarge2155 4,590]

1 hour ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Dont disagree but also in some cases young black men get killed by the police and its jsutfied, yet we still have riots, looting and stealing. Michael Brown comes to mind as does Treyvon Martin who was shot while beating someones face into the pavment yet the same reaction 

Perhaps you better read the case history again!

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

When people say "there are too many examples of police behaving badly" or "too many times police use excessive force"...  what is too many?

 

I have no idea how many successful arrests there are in the US daily.  20,000?  50,000?  10,000?  

[TBoneTX 45,959]

4 hours ago, OriZ said:

I was agreeing with you

Agreement in CEHST!!!!!  REPORTED!!!!!!!!

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

1 hour ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Dont disagree but also in some cases young black men get killed by the police and its jsutfied, yet we still have riots, looting and stealing. Michael Brown comes to mind as does Treyvon Martin who was shot while beating someones face into the pavment yet the same reaction 

A lot more than some -- the vast majority of people in general that police use lethal force on is justified. Overwhelmingly, regardless of race, when police use lethal force, it's justified. It's these very small circumstances that get all the attention. 

 

The left solely want to talk about blacks as victims, but naturally, it's dumb, it doesn't give a broad picture of anything. It's why nothing positive tends to develop.

 

If we want to talk about police interactions where lethal force is applied, there's two major studies done on this:

 

1) 2019 study:

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877

Quote

 

We did not find evidence for anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparity in police use of force across all shootings, and, if anything, found anti-White disparities when controlling for race-specific crime. While racial disparity did vary by type of shooting, no one type of shooting showed significant anti-Black or -Hispanic disparity. The uncertainty around these estimates highlights the need for more data before drawing conclusions about disparities in specific types of shootings.

 

When considering all FOIS in 2015, we did not find anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparity. How do we explain these results? Our data are consistent with three possible explanations.

One police-centered explanation is that these disparities reflect depolicing. Depolicing occurs when police officers’ concerns about becoming targets in civil litigation and the media spotlight impede officers from enforcing the law. Such concerns have been heightened due to recent high-profile shootings of Black men. The disparities in our data are consistent with selective depolicing, where officers are less likely to fatally shoot Black civilians for fear of public and legal reprisals. All else equal, this would increase the likelihood that a person fatally shot was White vs. Black. However, depolicing might be limited to areas with high-profile shootings. This explanation also does not explain the disparity observed when comparing White and Hispanic civilians. Future research could test for depolicing more rigorously by using a quasiexperimental time-lagged study investigating police use of force in cities before and after high-profile shootings where racial issues are prominent.

On the other hand, a civilian-centered explanation for these disparities is that White civilians may react differently toward police than racial minorities in crime-related situations. If White civilians present more threat toward police, this could explain why a person fatally shot was more likely to be White than Black or Hispanic. Among those fatally shot by police, Whites are more likely (relative to racial minorities) to be armed and pose a threat. We attempted to control for civilian threat level by measuring whether they were armed and attacking, but found these variables unrelated to the race of a person fatally shot. These issues illustrate a broader challenge in inferring civilian characteristics during fatal shootings. The newspaper databases we analyzed contained at least some errors (e.g., in whether civilians are coded as armed; ref. 37). There are likely more false positives and negatives in these databases, such as when separating individuals committing suicide who are not experiencing a mental health crisis from those who are experiencing a mental health crisis. Another challenge is that dichotomous variable codes may not capture the complexity of these interactions (e.g., a person is coded as attacking, but they had stopped struggling before they were fatally shot). One solution is to code civilian threat level in a more continuous way (e.g., ref. 10). But this will only be realistic if better records of FOIS are kept at the federal level. For this reason, we urge caution when interpreting the impact of civilian characteristics on racial disparities in fatal shootings.

Finally, the lack of anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparity and the impact of race-specific crime are consistent with an exposure argument, whereby per capita racial disparity in fatal shootings is explained by non-Whites’ greater exposure to the police through crime. This explanation is consistent with studies that have used violent crime as a benchmark for testing disparity.

 

 

2) 2018 study:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1948550618775108

Quote

One important contribution of this research is to examine different types of shootings, allowing us to test predictions derived from the social psychological literature. Yet none of these tests provided evidence of systematic anti-Black disparity. Moreover, the CDC data (as well as the evidence discussed in Online Supplemental Material #2) provide a very strong test of whether biased policing accounts for these results. The current research is not the final answer to the question of race and police use of deadly force. Yet it does provide perspective on how one should test for group disparities in behavioral outcomes and on whether claims of anti-Black disparity in fatal police shootings are as certain as often portrayed in the national media. When considering all fatal shootings, it is clear that systematic anti-Black disparity at the national level is not observed.

 

Naturally, we also look to interactions in general:

Officers feloniously killed, by race:

https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2019/tables/table-42.xls

 

Here you see, despite blacks making up around 10-15% of the population, they represent 30-50+% felonious kills on police officers. Enormous disparity.

 

When looking at violent interracial crimes:

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv18.pdf

 

 

Clearly blacks are committing far more violent crimes upon whites than whites are on anyone else. Astronomical disparity.

 

The left likes to show blacks disproportionately victims of murder, but strangely don't want to show who are committing these murders.. that's okay, because I will:

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

 

2600 of 2925, for those with calculators, is roughly 89%. Only 11% of blacks who are victims of any kind of homicide are killed by someone who isn't black. We seeing any "systemic" or "systematic" problems yet?

 

When observing behavior during circumstances like this, one sees a very large disparity of blacks involved in looting of stores, recognizing the geographical location of where media decides to set up observation and potential biases there. Nonetheless, it's a very large amount of people. 

 

One sees the encouragement of blacks, primarily by those on the left, to behave in violent, dangerous, illegal ways. These both increase the odds of violent interaction with blacks, by everyone else, by police, etc., increase the odds of blacks attaining a criminal record, and increase the odds that blacks have difficulty functioning normally in society as in attaining decent jobs, functioning in professional environments, and so on. 

 

Statistics have long told us the problem, and while there are some extremely minor problems as presented, the overarching problems are conveniently ignored or encouraged by those who claim to care about blacks, but clearly don't. Some of us, who have black siblings ourselves, and are in *actual* black and interracial families, actually want blacks to succeed as individuals, rather than be our political pawns.

 

The key to helping solve this problem for blacks is acknowledging the highest rates of problems, yet the left focus on the most minor problems, elevating them in importance, in overwhelming robotic unison, to drive blacks to engage in behavior that is crippling to them and beneficial to white leftists. More blacks are waking up to this, and the sooner it happens in mass, including addressing the largest problems, the better. 

 

This self-endangering encouragement and psychological deviance doesn't stop with blacks, of course, today's left also does this to LGBT, Hispanics, women, and others. But since the topic is on blacks, I won't write a wall on that.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[Sarge2155 4,590]

As  I said earlier racial discussions always end badly, post like the prior one usually start it off, but I'll not go there. It's oblivious to me where  and what standpoint that poster is coming from. On the other hand the same can be said for me I suppose!

[Dashinka 24,740]

11 minutes ago, Sarge2155 said:

As  I said earlier racial discussions always end badly, post like the prior one usually start it off, but I'll not go there. It's oblivious to me where  and what standpoint that poster is coming from. On the other hand the same can be said for me I suppose!

Isn’t that pretty much the same with any politically charged issue?

[Sarge2155 4,590]

8 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Isn’t that pretty much the same with any politically charged issue?

If you throw politics into the mix then its twofold, but I'm  talking about straight up racial.

[Dashinka 24,740]

4 minutes ago, Sarge2155 said:

If you throw politics into the mix then its twofold, but I'm  talking about straight up racial.

Anytime Rev. Sharpton gets involved, it becomes political.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

1 hour ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   With Treyvon you are focusing on the end of the encounter. Certainly at that point something bad was going to happen to one person or the other. Now consider the beginning. Why was Treyvon confronted for walking down the street? There are more similarities to the Ahmaud Arbury murder than George Floyd. Trayvon was simply targeted because of the color of his skin. Sorry, but people who are not doing anything wrong should be able to walk down the street without being accused and provoked into a situation that ends with violence and death. 

 

  None of the protesting is a reaction in isolation either. George Floyd's death was the catalyst for the current protests, but it' would be naive to think all of this is only about Mr. Floyd's death. It was the flash point for a tangible reaction to something that has been ongoing for a long time. Watching an innocent man die on camera was not the beginning, it was the breaking point for many people. Once you get past the well known incidents, and the ones that happened by chance to be caught on camera, there is a much longer list of names that people are less familiar with. 

 

   

Trayvon was followed but never confronted. Yes Zimmerman should not have followed him but Trayvon doubled back and attacked him, he told Zimmerman "You are going to die tonight." Zimmerna had every right to defend himself.

 

Michael Brown tried to take a cops gun away and was coming back for a second attack. Very justified killing.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Nature Boy 2.0

[Sarge2155 4,590]

24 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Anytime Rev. Sharpton gets involved, it becomes political.

I'll  definitely agree to that! I'm not particularly fond of his motives, but I'll agree with you.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Sarge2155

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

15 minutes ago, Sarge2155 said:

I'll  definitely agree to that! I'm not particularly fond of his motives, but I'll agree with you.

Sharpton has had several cases in which he made totally false racially charged accusations.  He is a tax cheat. Has openly used racial slurs many times.

 

Yet was a staple at Obummers white house 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

24 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Trayvon was followed but never confronted. Yes Zimmerman should not have followed him but Trayvon doubled back and attacked him, he told Zimmerman "You are going to die tonight." Zimmerna had every right to defend himself.

 

Michael Brown tried to take a cops gun away and was coming back for a second attack. Very justified killing.

   No one really knows what Trayvon said. We only have Zimmermans account of the events, and the reliability of anything Zimmerman says is not worth much.

[Sarge2155 4,590]

2 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

 

 

Yet was a staple at Obummers white house 

This is where it could end badly this discussion. But I'll take the high road and not counter your remark!!