Rejected!

[Yodrak 7]

cjindia,

Quality is more significant than quantity - what kind of relationship did these hundreds of documents show? Show not to you, but to a 3rd party who knows nothing about you and your fianceee except what you and she present about yourselves.

Recognize that the primary evidence is the feeling that the consular officer gets from speaking with the visa applicant. It seems that this consular officer got a negative feeling, and there was not enough in the volumes of printed material to overcome that negative face-to-face feeling.

Recognize also that scammers are patient communicators - they have the patience to write letters and e-mails, talk on the phone, put up with your visits for a few weeks at a time, and generally do whatever else is necessary to convince an eager USC of their love in order to get themselves into the USA. Sometimes they can also convince a consular interviewer as well, sometimes not. And sometimes an interviewer can mistake a serious visa applicant for a scammer.

Maybe the interviewer made a mistake in this case. Then again, maybe not. In any case, you need to look at the case rationally, not emotionally, if you want to pursue it successfully. So get an immigration attorney who has experience with this consulate to review everything about the case from petition to visa application.

Yodrak

This is unreal, I submitted more documents for proof than required. I also visited my fiance 3 times. Her family is best friends with my aunts family. Yet she got a 221g at the interview and then this:

Documents submitted by you are unable to establish that a crdible relationship exists between yourself and petitioner. The fiance visa petition is valid for 4 months from the date of its approval. Your petition was approved on Feb 6 2007, and since then more than 4 months past. Because the consular officer was not convinced with the relationship between yourself and petitioner, the petiton was not revalidated . We have returned the petition to the NVC.

What happens now.. Congressman didnt do a thing... supposedly they called up etc etc. she is a wreck.. what do i do now.

btw this is what we submitted

1. 200 emails

2. hundreds and hundreds of dollars in phone bills

3. 3 seperate pplane trips by me

4 over 70 engagement photos..

what else?

[Yodrak 7]

Dan + Gemvita,

How do you know that the "proofs were good enough"? Did you see them? And have you seen and spoken with the visa applicant?

How do you have any idea how the person that appeared before the consular officer and was interviewed by that officer was consistent with the person who came through in those "proofs"?

Yodrak

Are they the proofs of ongoing relationship ?... I'm confused why the CO wasn't convinced. Your proofs were good enough..

Edited June 19, 2007 by Yodrak

[MaryandMian 1]

This is unreal, I submitted more documents for proof than required. I also visited my fiance 3 times. Her family is best friends with my aunts family. Yet she got a 221g at the interview and then this:

Documents submitted by you are unable to establish that a crdible relationship exists between yourself and petitioner. The fiance visa petition is valid for 4 months from the date of its approval. Your petition was approved on Feb 6 2007, and since then more than 4 months past. Because the consular officer was not convinced with the relationship between yourself and petitioner, the petiton was not revalidated . We have returned the petition to the NVC.

What happens now.. Congressman didnt do a thing... supposedly they called up etc etc. she is a wreck.. what do i do now.

btw this is what we submitted

1. 200 emails

2. hundreds and hundreds of dollars in phone bills

3. 3 seperate pplane trips by me

4 over 70 engagement photos..

what else?

Like Yodrak said alot of evidence may not sway the person that is reading your emails and proofs. One thing is the bolded red --- could this have been mistaken that you are already married and ineligible for a K 1 visa?

[Yodrak 7]

MaryandMian,

If that were the case then the issue would have been raised and the visa applicant would have been asked to present evidence that no marriage exists.

It seems clear that the issue is failure to demonstrate a bona fide relationship. There was something about that interview that the woman did not come across as being seriously interested in her fiance.

Yodrak

This is unreal, I submitted more documents for proof than required. I also visited my fiance 3 times. Her family is best friends with my aunts family. Yet she got a 221g at the interview and then this:

Documents submitted by you are unable to establish that a crdible relationship exists between yourself and petitioner. The fiance visa petition is valid for 4 months from the date of its approval. Your petition was approved on Feb 6 2007, and since then more than 4 months past. Because the consular officer was not convinced with the relationship between yourself and petitioner, the petiton was not revalidated . We have returned the petition to the NVC.

What happens now.. Congressman didnt do a thing... supposedly they called up etc etc. she is a wreck.. what do i do now.

btw this is what we submitted

1. 200 emails

2. hundreds and hundreds of dollars in phone bills

3. 3 seperate pplane trips by me

4 over 70 engagement photos..

what else?

..... One thing is the bolded red --- could this have been mistaken that you are already married and ineligible for a K 1 visa?

[brnidokiegurl 0]

Yodrak...who is it that denys.. the embassy that returns it (which im seeing as they are sending it back for review) or as i stated earlier in our case (california) will be the one that reviews and makes that decision as to final denial.

(A US Consulate certainly can deny issuing a visa...that is their job. They returned the petition to the NVC because its validity has expired as they chose not to extend it.)

Ours was returned to calif, it expired in June but then i also rec'd a letter saying they will review etc....

[Yodrak 7]

brnidokiegurl,

"denys" what?

The USCIS makes a determination, in approving or denying the petition, as to whether or not a relationship exists. The consulate makes a determination, in approving or denying the visa application, as to whether or not the applicant meets all the requirements for a visa, including examining the bona fides of the relationship, and is not otherwise excludable.

If the consulate uncovers information during the course of examining the visa application and the visa applicant that causes it to believe that the petition should not have been approved then it is their responsibility to deny the visa application and return the petition to the USCIS for reconsideration given the new information. The USCIS can either agree with the consulate and retract the original approval or it can disagree with the consulate and reaffirm the original approval.

If you want to delve into the issue more deeply, please do so with one or more immigration attornies who specialize in marriage-based immigration. (And be ready for some varied opinions!)

Yodrak

Yodrak...who is it that denys.. the embassy that returns it (which im seeing as they are sending it back for review) or as i stated earlier in our case (california) will be the one that reviews and makes that decision as to final denial.

(A US Consulate certainly can deny issuing a visa...that is their job. They returned the petition to the NVC because its validity has expired as they chose not to extend it.)

Ours was returned to calif, it expired in June but then i also rec'd a letter saying they will review etc....

[brnidokiegurl 0]

brnidokiegurl,

"denys" what?

The USCIS makes a determination, in approving or denying the petition, as to whether or not a relationship exists. The consulate makes a determination, in approving or denying the visa application, as to whether or not the applicant meets all the requirements for a visa, including examining the bona fides of the relationship, and is not otherwise excludable.

If the consulate uncovers information during the course of examining the visa application and the visa applicant that causes it to believe that the petition should not have been approved then it is their responsibility to deny the visa application and return the petition to the USCIS for reconsideration given the new information. The USCIS can either agree with the consulate and retract the original approval or it can disagree with the consulate and reaffirm the original approval.

If you want to delve into the issue more deeply, please do so with one or more immigration attornies who specialize in marriage-based immigration. (And be ready for some varied opinions!)

Yodrak

Yodrak...who is it that denys.. the embassy that returns it (which im seeing as they are sending it back for review) or as i stated earlier in our case (california) will be the one that reviews and makes that decision as to final denial.

(A US Consulate certainly can deny issuing a visa...that is their job. They returned the petition to the NVC because its validity has expired as they chose not to extend it.)

Ours was returned to calif, it expired in June but then i also rec'd a letter saying they will review etc....

thanks thats what i was trying to say USCIS has the final say

[cjindia 0]

MaryandMian,

If that were the case then the issue would have been raised and the visa applicant would have been asked to present evidence that no marriage exists.

It seems clear that the issue is failure to demonstrate a bona fide relationship. There was something about that interview that the woman did not come across as being seriously interested in her fiance.

Yodrak

This is unreal, I submitted more documents for proof than required. I also visited my fiance 3 times. Her family is best friends with my aunts family. Yet she got a 221g at the interview and then this:

Documents submitted by you are unable to establish that a crdible relationship exists between yourself and petitioner. The fiance visa petition is valid for 4 months from the date of its approval. Your petition was approved on Feb 6 2007, and since then more than 4 months past. Because the consular officer was not convinced with the relationship between yourself and petitioner, the petiton was not revalidated . We have returned the petition to the NVC.

What happens now.. Congressman didnt do a thing... supposedly they called up etc etc. she is a wreck.. what do i do now.

btw this is what we submitted

1. 200 emails

2. hundreds and hundreds of dollars in phone bills

3. 3 seperate pplane trips by me

4 over 70 engagement photos..

what else?

..... One thing is the bolded red --- could this have been mistaken that you are already married and ineligible for a K 1 visa?

my fiance told me she wasnt asked more than 5 simple questions, took less than 3 mins and the paper was already waiting for her.

[brnidokiegurl 0]

THe embassy had your original application.. as in Casa sounds like they had their mind made up before the interview even started.

[cjindia 0]

cjindia,

Quality is more significant than quantity - what kind of relationship did these hundreds of documents show? Show not to you, but to a 3rd party who knows nothing about you and your fianceee except what you and she present about yourselves.

Recognize that the primary evidence is the feeling that the consular officer gets from speaking with the visa applicant. It seems that this consular officer got a negative feeling, and there was not enough in the volumes of printed material to overcome that negative face-to-face feeling.

Recognize also that scammers are patient communicators - they have the patience to write letters and e-mails, talk on the phone, put up with your visits for a few weeks at a time, and generally do whatever else is necessary to convince an eager USC of their love in order to get themselves into the USA. Sometimes they can also convince a consular interviewer as well, sometimes not. And sometimes an interviewer can mistake a serious visa applicant for a scammer.

Maybe the interviewer made a mistake in this case. Then again, maybe not. In any case, you need to look at the case rationally, not emotionally, if you want to pursue it successfully. So get an immigration attorney who has experience with this consulate to review everything about the case from petition to visa application.

Yodrak

This is unreal, I submitted more documents for proof than required. I also visited my fiance 3 times. Her family is best friends with my aunts family. Yet she got a 221g at the interview and then this:

Documents submitted by you are unable to establish that a crdible relationship exists between yourself and petitioner. The fiance visa petition is valid for 4 months from the date of its approval. Your petition was approved on Feb 6 2007, and since then more than 4 months past. Because the consular officer was not convinced with the relationship between yourself and petitioner, the petiton was not revalidated . We have returned the petition to the NVC.

What happens now.. Congressman didnt do a thing... supposedly they called up etc etc. she is a wreck.. what do i do now.

btw this is what we submitted

1. 200 emails

2. hundreds and hundreds of dollars in phone bills

3. 3 seperate pplane trips by me

4 over 70 engagement photos..

what else?

I am an educated man and know to look at things rationally, both myself, my attorney, my congressmen looked at the case and feel it is an abuse of discretion. by the way, discretion is limited as well. Consular officers have to rely on the USCIS decision and only overturn if they have "concrete" proof. not speculation. I can forward you the memo sent to all consulates regarding this. Secondly i understand quality of proof. There was substantial quality and quantity in the evidence. By the way, it is not fraud(for some reason all your posts hint at that), she is a close family friend of my aunts and we got to know each other and hit it off. the families knew each other for 20 yrs.

[Yodrak 7]

brnidokiegurl,

Again I ask you - on what?

USICS has final say on the petition. The DOS has the final say on the visa.

And CBP has the final say on whether or not a person gets into the country even if both USCIS and DOS said 'OK by me'.

Yodrak

thanks thats what i was trying to say USCIS has the final say

[Jackie&Yosdani 0]

Omg!!

I'm so sorry to hear that..

but are you leaving anything out.. why would they deny you just because?? there must be more..

[Yodrak 7]

cjindia,

I'm glad to know that you have an attorney, and that the attorney believes your case is a good one.

I understand the limits on discretion and the memo that you refer to.

I do not know whethe or not fraud exists in your case, but I do know that fraud exists and is something that consular officers in particular look for. As I wrote in my post, sometimes they make mistakes.

Were you at the interview? Did you see and hear the interaction between your fiancee and the consular officer? That's quite possibly where the problem developed.

[EDIT]

my fiance told me she wasnt asked more than 5 simple questions, took less than 3 mins and the paper was already waiting for her.

OK, another piece of the puzzle that was left out previously. If correct, this new item causes me to go adjust my thinking and agree with those who felt that the consular officer's mind was made up in advance, which shifts the focus of attention back to those hundreds of documents that were submitted with the visa petition as evidence. Something in there must have created the perception that the relationship was not bona fide. The lawyer will have some work to do.

Yodrak

I am an educated man and know to look at things rationally, both myself, my attorney, my congressmen looked at the case and feel it is an abuse of discretion. by the way, discretion is limited as well. Consular officers have to rely on the USCIS decision and only overturn if they have "concrete" proof. not speculation. I can forward you the memo sent to all consulates regarding this. Secondly i understand quality of proof. There was substantial quality and quantity in the evidence. By the way, it is not fraud(for some reason all your posts hint at that), she is a close family friend of my aunts and we got to know each other and hit it off. the families knew each other for 20 yrs.

Edited June 19, 2007 by Yodrak

[bszoom42 0]

Cjindia, I am sorry to hear your petition has been returned, and wish you the best of luck for your future journey.

my thoughts to you would be to visit the New Delhi embassy, and make an appointment with a consular official to understand the real reasons for the return. Don't try to argue the decision with them or present more evidence; just get all the facts you can; so that you can go back to your lawyer and decide on the best course of action.

There are many many reasons they could have returned the petition:

1. You failed to request an extension; and they did not feel your case merited an automatic extension.

2. They felt that your fiance was already married to you as per Indian customs (legal marriage is not necessary if the consular official feels that you are already married as per Indian traditions), and therefore you cannot prove a fiancee relationship.

3. Your fiancee was perhaps nervous on the interview; and they felt she was not being forthwright with them; and is holding back information of signficance to the relationship.

4. They did not feel that your fiancee would marry you in 90 days; but perhaps was using you to get entry into the US.

Anyway, the list can go on and on; I think the best thing is to find out what specifically was causing them to not extend the petition validity; and based on what you find; you may be able to decide how to proceed.

Best of luck!

[sj5 4]

This is unreal, I submitted more documents for proof than required. I also visited my fiance 3 times. Her family is best friends with my aunts family. Yet she got a 221g at the interview and then this:

Documents submitted by you are unable to establish that a crdible relationship exists between yourself and petitioner. The fiance visa petition is valid for 4 months from the date of its approval. Your petition was approved on Feb 6 2007, and since then more than 4 months past. Because the consular officer was not convinced with the relationship between yourself and petitioner, the petiton was not revalidated . We have returned the petition to the NVC.

What happens now.. Congressman didnt do a thing... supposedly they called up etc etc. she is a wreck.. what do i do now.

btw this is what we submitted

1. 200 emails

2. hundreds and hundreds of dollars in phone bills

3. 3 seperate pplane trips by me

4 over 70 engagement photos..

what else?

Sorry in your situation..just sort it it'll be fine

I brought a thousand pages of e-mails, Letters by postmail, My 2 years phonebills and his phonebills, 5 tickets, Hundreds of our photos, Engagement ring, Expenses( Restaurant, Plane ticket, boat and others to proved we been dating) and Scott(My husband) with his Divorced decree and financial stuffs etc.