Coronavirus: How 'overreaction' made Vietnam a virus success

[Orangesapples 1,954]

44 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

How long did it take to develop a therapeutic fro HIV?  Regardless, shutdowns were put in place to reduce the stress on the medical community which they accomplished and I applaud, but now that the curve is long and flat, and we are on the down slope, it is time to reopen and let human nature work.  As to the US adopting policies like NZ or Vietnam, that has been discussed, and it won’t happen for a number of reasons.  Besides even if the federal government closed the borders and required mandatory quarantine for 14-21 days for anyone coming in, which could only be done via an Executive Order, it would be immediately challenged in a court of law mainly just because of who occupies the WH.

Excuses. 

 

And it's a fact that there's no equivalence between HIV and the current virus. 

[Dashinka 24,741]

1 hour ago, Orangesapples said:

Excuses. 

 

And it's a fact that there's no equivalence between HIV and the current virus. 

I did not profit an equivalency to HIV, since it would be absurd to do that.  Regardless of excuses, this is the way the US government works.  I for one would rather not see a more progressive totalitarian regime here.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

3 hours ago, Orangesapples said:

Excuses.   FACTS

 

And it's a fact that there's no equivalence between HIV and the current virus. 

 

 

Correct.  HIV isn't all scary-like because we have lived with it for decades.  Plus it has killed MILLIONS more than covid.  770,000 in 2018 alone.  No comparison at all.

[Ban Hammer 13,491]

33 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

 

 

Correct.  HIV isn't all scary-like because we have lived with it for decades.  Plus it has killed MILLIONS more than covid.  770,000 in 2018 alone.  No comparison at all.

reminds me of a 2 star general that gave us a speech about aids.

he said he called the medical personnel into his office and gave them a choice to pick from:
1.  die.....(long pause with lots of laughter).......in their sleep a painless death 5 years from now

2.  or catch aids tomorrow. 

 

all of the medical personnel took #1.

 

i wonder how many in here would choose aids over covid-19?

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

59 minutes ago, Ban Hammer said:

reminds me of a 2 star general that gave us a speech about aids.

he said he called the medical personnel into his office and gave them a choice to pick from:
1.  die.....(long pause with lots of laughter).......in their sleep a painless death 5 years from now

2.  or catch aids tomorrow. 

 

all of the medical personnel took #1.

 

i wonder how many in here would choose aids over covid-19?

None, heads will explode.

[Orangesapples 1,954]

4 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

 

 

Correct.  HIV isn't all scary-like because we have lived with it for decades.  Plus it has killed MILLIONS more than covid.  770,000 in 2018 alone.  No comparison at all.

HIV is a completely different virus and the measures to prevent it are completely different from COVID. Also, HIV positive people with access to healthcare can take one pill a day for the rest of their lives and never develop AIDS. There are also drugs you can take after exposure so that you don't become HIV positive. 

 

Even before those drugs were developed, HIV could be prevented by limiting the number of your sexual partners, using condoms, not sharing needles and testing blood before transfusion. You can't get HIV by going to the grocery store or standing too close to someone. That's why the measures taken are very different (sex education, encouraging condom use, providing clean needles vs a lockdown and wearing masks). Contact tracing works for both and obviously isolation and quarantine is not needed for HIV. 

 

One would think the above is obvious. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Orangesapples

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

The hysteria I think is the obvious connection, which you just demonstrated, but tried hard to avoid understanding. 

 

Which puts the "heads explode" comment into context.

 

With AIDS, even with that hysteria, they didn't shut down people's lives and facilitate social and economic despair, which brings about its own serious health problems. The cost in this cost-benefit comparison is far too high to justify shutting things down like this. Thankfully we just learned that so next time things should stay open and the vulnerable need to be protected/isolated on their own without everyone else suffering long term.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

4 hours ago, Orangesapples said:

HIV is a completely different virus and the measures to prevent it are completely different from COVID. Also, HIV positive people with access to healthcare can take one pill a day for the rest of their lives and never develop AIDS. There are also drugs you can take after exposure so that you don't become HIV positive. 

 

Even before those drugs were developed, HIV could be prevented by limiting the number of your sexual partners, using condoms, not sharing needles and testing blood before transfusion. You can't get HIV by going to the grocery store or standing too close to someone. That's why the measures taken are very different (sex education, encouraging condom use, providing clean needles vs a lockdown and wearing masks). Contact tracing works for both and obviously isolation and quarantine is not needed for HIV. 

 

One would think the above is obvious. 

And yet, millions have died from it, all over the world, it is an ongoing pandemic, and we never shut down a single business nor border over it.  Isn't it more deadly than covid (so far, at least)?

[Boiler 45,956]

[OriZ 3,157]

1 hour ago, Voice of Reason said:

And yet, millions have died from it, all over the world, it is an ongoing pandemic, and we never shut down a single business nor border over it.  Isn't it more deadly than covid (so far, at least)?

Come on. If someone with HIV shakes your hand, sits next to you in a theatre, or sneezes in your direction, you're not going to contract it. Why would you shut anything down over it? 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

43 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Come on. If someone with HIV shakes your hand, sits next to you in a theatre, or sneezes in your direction, you're not going to contract it. Why would you shut anything down over it? 

I agree 100%.  I also feel the same way about covid.  We're all going to get it at some point.  That's why I haven't changed a thing in my daily routine except wearing a mask when I go to stores.

[Orangesapples 1,954]

8 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

And yet, millions have died from it, all over the world, it is an ongoing pandemic, and we never shut down a single business nor border over it.  Isn't it more deadly than covid (so far, at least)?

A little exercise for those struggling to understand why HIV and COVID are different. 

 

Challenge - find 10 differences between between HIV and SARS-CoV2. Hint - shaking hand with someone who has HIV/AIDS - not a problem, reference - Princess Diana. Shaking hands with someone with COVID or an asymptomatic carrier - very bad idea, reference - Boris Johnson. 

 

You can do it, I believe in you. It might be hard, but give it a try. After you're done with the challenge, then it will be obvious why a lockdown is not a good solution for containing HIV spread while it's crucial for containing COVID. Unless of course, you start backwards with your conclusion but that's just being intellectually dishonest and I expect better from you. 

 

You can ask for help if you need it. 

Edited May 18, 2020 by Orangesapples

[OriZ 3,157]

8 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

I agree 100%.  I also feel the same way about covid.  We're all going to get it at some point.  That's why I haven't changed a thing in my daily routine except wearing a mask when I go to stores.

I am actually not of the opinion that it's a given we will all get it. Only thing I've really changed in my routine is using hand sanitizer regularly when I'm out, and of course staying away from people.

Edited May 18, 2020 by OriZ

[Dashinka 24,741]

21 minutes ago, OriZ said:

I am actually not of the opinion that it's a given we will all get it. Only thing I've really changed in my routine is using hand sanitizer regularly when I'm out, and of course staying away from people.

If you have no symptoms, how would anyone know if they had it?

[Orangesapples 1,954]

1 hour ago, Dashinka said:

If you have no symptoms, how would anyone know if they had it?

Antibody test? Most current ones are not very good, there are some with a ridiculous false positive rate but there are reliable tests being developed.