Religious education is a form of child abuse

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Religious education doesn't preclude intellectual openness. All of the world's major religions have well-respected, thoughtful intellectual traditions. Islam solely pretty much preserved Greek thought, then it was picked up by Christianity. Judaism has a number of brilliant philosophers, as does Buddhism and Hinduism.

Methinks the secular humanists either fail to understand religion or fail to understand child abuse. Either way, they're overdue for a cranio-proctological extraction.

as long as religious education doesn't clash with logical assumptions, yeah, it's harmless.. but, the fight for evolution vs creationism, big bang, gravity! I mean.. when you deny the logical facts just because an unproven dogma says so.. then, it's against intellectual openness..

Viva El Presidente!

[pedroh 21]

Religious education doesn't preclude intellectual openness. All of the world's major religions have well-respected, thoughtful intellectual traditions. Islam solely pretty much preserved Greek thought, then it was picked up by Christianity. Judaism has a number of brilliant philosophers, as does Buddhism and Hinduism.

Methinks the secular humanists either fail to understand religion or fail to understand child abuse. Either way, they're overdue for a cranio-proctological extraction.

as long as religious education doesn't clash with logical assumptions, yeah, it's harmless.. but, the fight for evolution vs creationism, big bang, gravity! I mean.. when you deny the logical facts just because an unproven dogma says so.. then, it's against intellectual openness..

Viva El Presidente!

gracias

[Alex+R 0]

Religious education doesn't preclude intellectual openness. All of the world's major religions have well-respected, thoughtful intellectual traditions. Islam solely pretty much preserved Greek thought, then it was picked up by Christianity. Judaism has a number of brilliant philosophers, as does Buddhism and Hinduism.

Methinks the secular humanists either fail to understand religion or fail to understand child abuse. Either way, they're overdue for a cranio-proctological extraction.

Sure the major religions have intellectual traditions. I don't see how that shows that what your average kid in Sunday School is learning isn't indoctrination.

eta: I'm not sure indoctrination is abuse, though.

Edited June 19, 2007 by Alex+R

[Caladan 19]

It's indoctrination to the extent that the child is learning what his or her religion is, but indoctrination doesn't entail closed-mindedness.

[Alex+R 0]

It's indoctrination to the extent that the child is learning what his or her religion is, but indoctrination doesn't entail closed-mindedness.

Doesn't it? I don't follow. Indoctrination in one religious worldview, if successful, prevents children from have a fully open questioning mind. It's teaching a child to accept a point of view unquestioningly. Teaching your child, "we believe x because x is true" is very different from "I believe x, but you can believe anything you want." I think most kids are getting the former, which is indoctrination and teaching kids to not ask questions.

[Heracles 417]

not even worth my time to respond in depth.....another religious versus

non religious mud slinging fest. Have at it !

The thing is why do people bother. Each to their own beliefs.

[Heracles 417]

as long as religious education doesn't clash with logical assumptions, yeah, it's harmless.. but, the fight for evolution vs creationism, big bang, gravity! I mean.. when you deny the logical facts just because an unproven dogma says so.. then, it's against intellectual openness..

Exactly.

Both atheists and lots of Christians are wrong as they are trying to make something out of nothing. The bible was never written to explain science. Thus comparing it to a thesis on evolution is wrong. As a Christian myself it angers me to hear people say stuff like humans roamed the earth with dinosaurs. I think to myself, which chapter did you read this in as I must have missed the part about the time line of earth..

Edited June 19, 2007 by Infidel

[pedroh 21]

as long as religious education doesn't clash with logical assumptions, yeah, it's harmless.. but, the fight for evolution vs creationism, big bang, gravity! I mean.. when you deny the logical facts just because an unproven dogma says so.. then, it's against intellectual openness..

Exactly.

Both atheists and lots of Christians are wrong as they are trying to make something out of nothing. The bible was never written to explain science. Thus comparing it to a thesis on evolution is wrong. As a Christian myself it angers me to hear people say stuff like humans roamed the earth with dinosaurs. I think to myself, which chapter did you read this in as I must have missed the part about the time line of earth..

yea its in the bible, the name of the humans roaming with dinosaurs were Fred Flintstone, Wilma, Barney Rubble et al

[PlatyPius 5]

Religious education is a form of child abuse and violates the rights of children, contends a thesis to be considered by secular humanists at the Center for Inquiry's congress in Beijing this October.

[...]

"Such abuse begins with the involuntary involvement of children in religious practices from the time they are born," says Narisetti. "All religions, through ritual, preaching, and religious texts, seek to bring children into day-to-day religious practice."

"This gives holy books and scriptures, as well as those who teach them, an early grip on the developing minds of young people, leaving an indelible impression on them," said Narisetti, calling Sunday schools, madrassas, or Jewish or Hindu temples, centers of indoctrination for children.

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jun/07061805.html

I agree with that. It took me YEARS to remove the hateful influence of Baptist doctrine, fears, and beliefs from my subconcious. My wife was never exposed to any of that growing up, and I can only wish that it had been that way for me.

[KarenCee 3]

Hmmm....I was raised in a religious (Christian) household. So, I'm guessing I wasn't abused according to the opening article because even though my parents made me go to church, when I became old enough to decide for myself which direction I wanted to go in, they allowed that. I realize not all parents are this agreeable too. However, I agree, children should have rights...the right to be free from abuse (physical, mental, neglect, sexual, etc.). Yet I'm wondering though...where do the parental rights come in as far as raising their own children?

So is the consensus here of the opinion that for parents to force their religion or beliefs on their children constitutes abuse...and if so what type of abuse? Or is just the religious aspect of the whole thing the real issue here?

[LaL 418]

a slightly different spin on this - different from the intellectual teaching specifics of religion of secular humanism is the refusal of medical treatment due to religious beliefs.

Example: my mother is a special education teacher and has been for 23 years. She had one student that she wound up as a personal aide for 5 years throughout his primary school. He had severe cerebral palsy, however was a sweet, intellegent boy. She not only was his educator, but also taught him manners. He was taught by her to greet people sitting up straight in his chair, and to not drool on himself (he had the ability to remember to swallow) among other things.

He would go home and be placed on a mat in the living room with a bib on and a diaper. No enrichment, no activities, no WHEELCHAIR, so assisted devices allowed in their home.

That to me was abuse. In the morning my mother would have to start all over with him for five years.

[Caladan 19]

It's indoctrination to the extent that the child is learning what his or her religion is, but indoctrination doesn't entail closed-mindedness.

Doesn't it? I don't follow. Indoctrination in one religious worldview, if successful, prevents children from have a fully open questioning mind. It's teaching a child to accept a point of view unquestioningly. Teaching your child, "we believe x because x is true" is very different from "I believe x, but you can believe anything you want." I think most kids are getting the former, which is indoctrination and teaching kids to not ask questions.

You believe, say, that conflict diamonds make bad wedding gifts. You believe that because you believe it is true. You probably also believe that evolution is the way to explain the proliferation of the species. You believe that because you believe it is true. You believe that basic human dignity is common to all human beings. You believe that you because you believe it is true.

Some of your beliefs, I'd wager, weren't things you reasoned to, but values your parents taught you. Yet none of your beliefs, presumably, prevent you from thinking critically. Were they abusing you? Surely there are some values you hold as deeply as the Christians'. I'd be willing to bet that you think slavery is an absolute bad thing.

Why would the same be any less true for the Christian? If they're teaching kids not to ask questions, that's one thing, but that's different from it being caused just because they believe something is true. What I'm saying is that the vast intellectual traditions of religion provide good evidence that thinking critically and believing in God aren't mutually exclusive.

I make no claim on behalf of the Baptists or anyone still reading Genesis literally 1400 years after Augustine thought that taking Scripture literally was a good way to make silly errors. All I'm saying is that the model of "indoctrinate child, child never thinks" is no more true of the theist than it is of most anyone else.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Why would the same be any less true for the Christian? If they're teaching kids not to ask questions, that's one thing, but that's different from it being caused just because they believe something is true. What I'm saying is that the vast intellectual traditions of religion provide good evidence that thinking critically and believing in God aren't mutually exclusive.

I make no claim on behalf of the Baptists or anyone still reading Genesis literally 1400 years after Augustine thought that taking Scripture literally was a good way to make silly errors. All I'm saying is that the model of "indoctrinate child, child never thinks" is no more true of the theist than it is of most anyone else.

Well said.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Noting that the thread is started by someone who probably would not have had an education had there not been a religious component in establishing the school (a rather high percentage of Indians got their primary education in Catholic schools--including such Hindu-militant chopfracks as L.K. Advani, M.M. Joshi, Arun Shourie,...).

[Cassie 8]

yay, another thread inferring that because I went to Sunday School and was raised in a Christian home, I automatically am intellectually stunted with few critical thinking skills. It's been so long since the last one -- what, 3 months??