DUI a crime if not on police record?

[Foibh 39]

I was going over the I-485 with my husband and suggested he include his DUI even though he was not charged and there is no police record because he got his license revoked. He thinks if it’s not on his police record it’s not considered a crime. I would like others opinions on the matter. I suggested mark yes to the crime question and then explaining further.

[geowrian 22,338]

What exactly happened for it to be a DUI but not charged? Was he arrested or detained?

[Foibh 39]

The story is: the police arrested him and took him to the police station where they made him take a breathalyzer test twice. After they took his vehicle registration and told him to return the next day to retrieve it (which he did). Then a like a month later he received a letter telling him to surrender his license. 
 

I have seen his police record and there’s nothing on it so I don’t know how he managed to get his license revoked without being charged but here we are.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Foibh
Forgot to quote

[Foibh 39]

13 minutes ago, geowrian said:

What exactly happened for it to be a DUI but not charged? Was he arrested or detained?

 

The story is: the police arrested him and took him to the police station where they made him take a breathalyzer test twice. After they took his vehicle registration and told him to return the next day to retrieve it (which he did). Then a like a month later he received a letter telling him to surrender his license. 
 

I have seen his police record and there’s nothing on it so I don’t know how he managed to get his license revoked without being charged but here we are.

[JFH 12,191]

Did this happen in his home country or here? He’s been here just over 2 months so if it happened here it’s a concern as it is obviously very recent. And from what I’ve seen it’s a two-food matter - breaking the law and the possibility of not being able to control himself when he drinks. Both of those impact the GMC requirement. 

[geowrian 22,338]

Thanks for the info.

I have to agree...no way they arrested him and made him surrender his license (with a formal letter asking him to do so) without it being either a civil violation or criminal arrest.

 

Either way, this sounds like a clear "yes" on the I-485 where it says (q.25) (via the "arrested" wording alone).

Quote

Have you EVER been arrested, cited, charged, or detained for any reason by any law enforcement official (including but not limited to any U.S. immigration official or any official of the U.S. armed forces or U.S. Coast Guard)?

 

I'm unsure if q.27 (below) would be a yes or not based on the record stated. I'm assuming there was some paperwork provided and/or signed stating if there was ever a charge (even if eventually dismissed)) or plea given, but I can only work with the information given, sorry.

Quote

Have you EVER pled guilty to or been convicted of a crime or offense (even if the violation was subsequently expunged or sealed by a court, or if you were granted a pardon, amnesty, a rehabilitation decree, or other act of clemency)?

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by geowrian

[arken 4,197]

Taking one to the police station for breathalyzer, holding vehicle registration and surrendering license aren’t the things that happen in the US, so definitely in the home country. That would exactly happen in my home country.
 

Here, they don’t ask you to surrender license, they suspend it.

 

 

[Foibh 39]

2 hours ago, JFH said:

Did this happen in his home country or here? He’s been here just over 2 months so if it happened here it’s a concern as it is obviously very recent. And from what I’ve seen it’s a two-food matter - breaking the law and the possibility of not being able to control himself when he drinks. Both of those impact the GMC requirement. 

Home country. Eight years ago. If it was recent I would have more information.

[Foibh 39]

2 hours ago, geowrian said:

Thanks for the info.

I have to agree...no way they arrested him and made him surrender his license (with a formal letter asking him to do so) without it being either a civil violation or criminal arrest.

 

Either way, this sounds like a clear "yes" on the I-485 where it says (q.25) (via the "arrested" wording alone).

 

I'm unsure if q.27 (below) would be a yes or not based on the record stated. I'm assuming there was some paperwork provided and/or signed stating if there was ever a charge (even if eventually dismissed)) or plea given, but I can only work with the information given, sorry.

 

Same. I don’t know the French judicial system so I’m relying on what my husband says but obviously want to fill out the application cautiously. I feel like it’s better to say yes and the reality actually be no than the other way around. I’m just thinking: better safe than sorry if the answer is “I don’t know”. 

[WandY 430]

In the U.S. you don't have to be convicted of a DUI in order to lose a license to suspension. First-time DUI offenders often receive a mandatory state license suspension of 30 days to as much as several months. The suspension is administrative in nature, meaning the state is simply suspending your driving privileges due to the charge. Most suspensions occur relatively fast, while the criminal charge of DUI drags on in court. By the time the DUI is adjudicated, the driver may have already served the suspension time and can legally drive again. The legality/constitutionality of suspending a license before one is found guilty has been challenged many times. However, because licenses are government privileges and administrative, suspensions are not held to the criminal law standard. He was likely arrested and maybe never charged. His license was suspended almost immediately and the government decided (for whatever reason) not to criminally charge him. That's fairly common in the U.S., too. He should admit to the arrest.

[geowrian 22,338]

29 minutes ago, WandY said:

In the U.S. you don't have to be convicted of a DUI in order to lose a license to suspension. First-time DUI offenders often receive a mandatory state license suspension of 30 days to as much as several months. The suspension is administrative in nature, meaning the state is simply suspending your driving privileges due to the charge. Most suspensions occur relatively fast, while the criminal charge of DUI drags on in court. By the time the DUI is adjudicated, the driver may have already served the suspension time and can legally drive again. The legality/constitutionality of suspending a license before one is found guilty has been challenged many times. However, because licenses are government privileges and administrative, suspensions are not held to the criminal law standard. He was likely arrested and maybe never charged. His license was suspended almost immediately and the government decided (for whatever reason) not to criminally charge him. That's fairly common in the U.S., too. He should admit to the arrest.

I would just note that the circumstances described here may or may not still qualify as a conviction for immigration purposes, depending on the specifics (i.e. was it ever dismissed or did they treat it as served?)

https://www.law.umn.edu/sites/law.umn.edu/files/chart-convictions-for-immigration-purposes.pdf

 

Edit: The big item would be if anything was admitted, or facts provided for, guilt. The breathalizer could be treated as a form of testimony of facts suggesting guilt, even if no guilt was found by the court.

I believe this is in place to avoid things like bribery, political favors, discrimination (in a preferential way), etc. being used to bypass inadmissabilities, namely in foreign countries where corruption may be rampant.

Edited May 5, 2020 by geowrian