Assets in Lieu of Income Shot Down

[sausagefingers 4]

I want to start by saying I am grateful to the kind people on this site. Spousal Visa. Philippines. General Question:

 

In 2016 very disappointing  event put me in hibernation. The embassy interview demanded a  co-sponsor which I could not provide. In lieu of proper yearly income ($8K short) I demonstrated my home was fully owned by me, no debt, rental income, and a small amount of other money in bank ($10K). 

 

A very fair immigration attorney, my congressman, not helpful. Essentially I was told if I sold my house and put proceeds in the bank it would be counted as an asset but if I want to live in it no asset. Alas, that was the discretion they used. It came down to bank balance.

 

Ignoring any other assets can someone suggest how much cash I should show?  Shortfall amount x “X”?  Fixed amount of “X” USD? I know their is no fixed answer. Just looking for a “feel”.

 

 I am pretty sure case is alive by contacting them once a year. If I was not clear posting please advise and I will amplify. Thank you very much.

 

[Lucky2Lucky 2,526]

A much easier suggestion and less timely would have been to obtain a second job.

[sausagefingers 4]

1 minute ago, Luckycuds said:

A much easier suggestion and less timely would have been to obtain a second job.

My question is very specific and hopefully will not be spun off topic. Thank you.

[Crazy Cat 42,619]

The following links should help answer your questions:

https://www.uscis.gov/i-864p

 

I-864 instructions : https://www.uscis.gov/i-864

[Lil bear 4,355]

53 minutes ago, sausagefingers said:

I want to start by saying I am grateful to the kind people on this site. Spousal Visa. Philippines. General Question:

 

In 2016 very disappointing  event put me in hibernation. The embassy interview demanded a  co-sponsor which I could not provide. In lieu of proper yearly income ($8K short) I demonstrated my home was fully owned by me, no debt, rental income, and a small amount of other money in bank ($10K). 

 

A very fair immigration attorney, my congressman, not helpful. Essentially I was told if I sold my house and put proceeds in the bank it would be counted as an asset but if I want to live in it no asset. Alas, that was the discretion they used. It came down to bank balance.

 

Ignoring any other assets can someone suggest how much cash I should show?  Shortfall amount x “X”?  Fixed amount of “X” USD? I know their is no fixed answer. Just looking for a “feel”.

 

 I am pretty sure case is alive by contacting them once a year. If I was not clear posting please advise and I will amplify. Thank you very much.

 

You must have 3x the gap in liquid assets ... so you needed $24k plus .., sell the house , buy something smaller and  bank the rest if you’re still wanting to go the same route. Or find a way to increase your income .. or a joint sponsor. 

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Lil bear

[sausagefingers 4]

Lucky Cat, Lil Bear.... besides the animal theme thank you also for the info.

I have  heard different required numbers so appreciate the data and link. 

 

🙂

 

 

[Lil bear 4,355]

Just now, sausagefingers said:

Lucky Cat, Lil Bear.... besides the animal theme thank you also for the info.

I have  heard different required numbers so appreciate the data and link. 

 

🙂

 

 

It always pays to get the information from the agency that issues the forms... in this case USCIS. There is an explanatory information sheet for each form 

[sausagefingers 4]

1 minute ago, Lil bear said:

It always pays to get the information from the agency that issues the forms... in this case USCIS. There is an explanatory information sheet for each form 

Good advice for fixed requirements but I noticed once you stray off course and fail to meet the fixed guidelines (the essence of my post) it becomes tricky. I’m learning that it seems liquid assets of 3x or some other multiplier is the way to pursue this. Once again, thanks.

[Villanelle 4,122]

 

2 hours ago, sausagefingers said:

 

 

Ignoring any other assets can someone suggest how much cash I should show?  Shortfall amount x “X”?  Fixed amount of “X” USD? I know their is no fixed answer. Just looking for a “feel”.

 

 

 

3X

 

You need to calculate how short you on with income. Seems like you were 8k short in income so you would need 24K and you have 10 already in bank account.

 

 You mention 2016. That was 4 years ago roughly. Not sure if that was when you filed and youve been keeping the case alive or if 2016 was just referred to as being when your income dropped.  What matters is your present situation mainly. They can look at the past as an indication of the future though.... So what is your exact situation right now?

 

The 864 requires for something to be considered as assets in lieu of income- it needs to be considered 'liquid'. Liquid means able to be converted into cash with little to no impact on the person, with in 12 months or less, and in USD. You will find mixed opinions on whether or not your home can be used as an asset. There have been  people who have had success using their home providing varying evidence ranging from Zillow printouts to professional appraisals and real estate analysis's . But there are just as many people reporting they were not able to use their home. (Referring to primary home here)

This is because the Officer has discretion in approving the 864.  Which means they have discretion in determining if your asset is liquid or not. Obviously cash in the bank is liquid. So yeah, if you sell your home and put cash in the bank the cash will absolutely count as liquid and you need 3X what your income is short.  But keep in mind if your income included rent from what sounds like you are renting a room in your current property- so if you sell the property you are going to lose the rental income- causing more to be needed in assets to make up for the lost income.  If you have a second property it could change things but if you are looking to just use cash you also need to know that you need to demonstrate ownership of the funds. They either want to see 12 months of bank statements or some kind of documentation that you came into the money through valid means (like the sale of a house/car, an inheritance, a lotto prize) Basically something that shows you didnt have a friend or family member transfer you X amount of cash so you can qualify and then after youre going to give it back. 

 

 

 

[pushbrk 13,195]

2 hours ago, sausagefingers said:

My question is very specific and hopefully will not be spun off topic. Thank you.

And the answers to ALL aspects of your specific question are found in the I-864 instructions themselves.  Had you become an A-Student of those instructions and started dealing with the associated issues back then, your outcome may have been different.

 

Study the part that talks about what is meant by "liquid assets" in this context.  Your house is not considered a liquid asset.  In some ways the criteria and how assets are considered is not fair, but Consular Officers must follow the procedures they are trained to follow.  It's the law.

 

Your solution is to increase your income, with a better job, or second job.

 

Yes, you could sell your house and use the cash to overcome the public charge concern, but the reasons you don't want to do that, are EXACTLY why the equity in your primary home is not considered liquid.  

[Lil bear 4,355]

3 hours ago, sausagefingers said:

Good advice for fixed requirements but I noticed once you stray off course and fail to meet the fixed guidelines (the essence of my post) it becomes tricky. I’m learning that it seems liquid assets of 3x or some other multiplier is the way to pursue this. Once again, thanks.

Thanks , but I disagree. The instructions are very clear regarding the assets and value that are required. All I did was repeat what I read in the instructions for the I 864 form 

[pushbrk 13,195]

4 hours ago, sausagefingers said:

Good advice for fixed requirements but I noticed once you stray off course and fail to meet the fixed guidelines (the essence of my post) it becomes tricky. I’m learning that it seems liquid assets of 3x or some other multiplier is the way to pursue this. Once again, thanks.

It's not "tricky" unless you mean following instructions is "tricky".  How to do this is in the instructions.  Study them carefully.

[sausagefingers 4]

To the above most recent posts, very generous of you to spend time.

 

Regarding the “tricky” reference, have heard other numbers besides 3X sometimes invoked as the threshold. In the remarks to my congressman (fantastic responsiveness) he was also given general references- they where not specific. A lawyer with 35 years in immigration also said their is no certainty 3X or 5x. Every case rightfully unique. All of that I define as tricky.

 

Villanelle your ability to synthesize information so clearly is the best ever. And pushbrk a deserved reality check. A stronger knowledge base.

 

I feel the lesson is to become more grounded in objective facts and the excellent explanation of liquidity as it relates to my issue. 🙏🏻

Edited April 29, 2020 by sausagefingers
sp

[geowrian 22,338]

The 3x is the ratio of assets to income. $3 assets = $1 income

That said, the I-864 only has a minimum for consideration. The CO still looks at the totality of the circumstances to determine the likelihood of becoming a public charge. Being at or near the minimum is likely to be unsuccessful.

 

The issue with using a primary home as an asset is that it would likely present a hardship to you to sell it just to support somebody else, and/or its liquidity is in question.

More likely somebody would go on public aid before selling their house. If there is a homestead of farmstead inclusion as well, that often protects the home even more.

 

The reality is the CO wants to see more income (or possibly currently sufficient liquid assets) to overcome the public charge inadmissibility. Until that happens, the visa won't be issued.

Some factors they consider: https://fam.state.gov/FAM/09FAM/09FAM030208.html#M302_8_2_B_2

[pushbrk 13,195]

Sound like, your use of "tricky" refers to the fact that this is that the minimum requirements are not a goal line.  If you fall short, you are sure to fail, but merely meeting some minimum requirement does not assure success.  It's a judgment call.

 

Now may well not be a good time to find a second job, but doing so, sounds like the solution for you.