Coronavirus Truths

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

46 minutes ago, OriZ said:

If my head was in the sand, I would likely be dead by now, so it's probably safe to assume it's not

Yes, because I LITERALLY meant that.  You're the first person in my life to misunderstand the reference.  Literally.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

If you are claiming hyperbole and misdirection, then I can guarantee you didn't watch the videos.  The doctors, who are experts in their fields, did none of that.   Dismissing it out of hand is just silly to do.  But anyone is free to do so, obviously.

 

     How do you know they are experts in their fields? There are no credentials listed. There are doctor who graduate at the bottom of the class too.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

3 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

     How do you know they are experts in their fields? There are no credentials listed. There are doctor who graduate at the bottom of the class too.

Why do we trust ANY doctor we see online?  Or even in person, for that matter?  Dr. Fauci is considered an "expert", even though he hasn't seen any patients for 20 years.   He's just a well-paid mouthpiece.

 

And then the have the folks who like to play doctor on VJ...

 

But if you'd like to take the time.to jot down what they said that is misleading OR hyperbole, we can address it here.

Edited April 26, 2020 by Voice of Reason

[Steeleballz 7,550]

32 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

I am glad you are so optimistic that all this economic damage will go away soon.  You kind of sound the same as President Trump.  I hope you are right, but considering how deep into the supply chain this is going to hit us from food supply, to energy, it may not recover shortly.  We shall see as things start to open up and a great many states start clamoring for a bailout due to their lack of revenue.

 

My only issue with those still talking extending the lockdowns is they don’t seem to be considering the new data.  All we seem to see if any data comes out that shows a positive light is anyone discussing the data are quacks, or have their heads in the sand.  Maybe those folks also have dubious motivations. 

 

  I didn't say the economic damage will go away soon. It will go away though. I am actually more concerned that so many people don't have funds on hand to make it through 1 month. Economic catastrophe can hit at any time. Perhaps more significant than the economy stopping per se, is that it is not working for many people at the best of times to begin with. The underlying issues are significant.

 

  As I said I don't see any new data in anything here. Nothing I didn't know already. What are you seeing that is new, and how do you think it changes things?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Just now, Steeleballz said:

 

  I didn't say the economic damage will go away soon. It will go away though. I am actually more concerned that so many people don't have funds on hand to make it through 1 month. Economic catastrophe can hit at any time. Perhaps more significant than the economy stopping per se, is that it is not working for many people at the best of times to begin with. The underlying issues are significant.

 

  As I said I don't see any new data in anything here. Nothing I didn't know already. What are you seeing that is new, and how do you think it changes things?

The fact that the doctors are saying it's just like the seasonal flu seems to be new. Well, not really NEW, since I have been saying it from the beginning. But I was mocked here, since I'm not a doctor and don't know what I'm talking about.  

 

Meanwhile, they advocate going outside, maintaining our own personal flora and immunities, as well as synthesizing vitamin D (which isn't really a vitamin, but that's what it's called).  Things i have been saying all along.

 

Why don't leper colonies have a large population of healthy, non-leprous people?

[Steeleballz 7,550]

4 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Why do we trust ANY doctor we see online?  Or even in person, for that matter?  Dr. Fauci is considered an "expert", even though he hasn't seen any patients for 20 years.   He's just a well-paid mouthpiece.

 

And then the have the folks who like to play doctor on VJ...

 

But if you'd like to take the time.to jot down what they said that is misleading OR hyperbole, we can address it here.

 

  Personally I don't trust any just because they have a bunch of letters behind their name. I'm actually quite skeptical. Some of my colleagues seem to be into that. I can tell PDQ without seeing the degrees. 

 

  Dr Fauci is an infectious disease expert and he is speaking to that. If I break my leg, I am not going to ask him to set the bone, but I do recognize his expertise in the fields of virology, microbiology and epidemiology. By the same token, emergency doctors have unique skill sets, but they are generally not experts in epidemiology and/or infectious diseases. Nor are they surgeons or oncologists. In fact they like to hand those cases off as quickly as they can. They specialize in treating and stabilize acute and emergent conditions, because that is what they do over and over and over. I have met some who are amazing at what they do. There are also some who are God awful. Like anything else I guess.

[Xyrstine 224]

5 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

  They are not wrong, they have just included several arguments that are dubious or not true to support their argument. OTOH, they claim our immune systems get weaker by staying at home. They say there is no risk if you are younger and have no pre existing conditions. They claim to have attended 100’s of autopsies. Several things jumped out at me, but ultimately this is just another version of the Federalist/American Thinker type articles. It is driven by a clear agenda.

 

  

Claims are incorrect. I can personally vouch for that working in critical care. Many have died with no pre-existing conditions. Some otherwise young, fit and healthy. 

 

We have come across cases where the fitter of a cluster of patients end up passing away once intubated. We have already highlighted who are most at risk locally; high BMI's, people of black and ethnic minority groups, and pre-existing health condition such as diabetes, heart conditions and the usual respiratory conditions. Doesn't negate the fact it has and will continue to kill those that don't fit into those categories however. But yeah, continue to throw these expert opinions out here and lull people into a false sense of security.

Edited April 26, 2020 by Xyrstine

[Steeleballz 7,550]

8 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

The fact that the doctors are saying it's just like the seasonal flu seems to be new. Well, not really NEW, since I have been saying it from the beginning. But I was mocked here, since I'm not a doctor and don't know what I'm talking about.  

 

Meanwhile, they advocate going outside, maintaining our own personal flora and immunities, as well as synthesizing vitamin D (which isn't really a vitamin, but that's what it's called).  Things i have been saying all along.

 

Why don't leper colonies have a large population of healthy, non-leprous people?

 

  Nobody that actually treats patients with Covid-19 would say it's like seasonal flu. From the beginning you have said this was just like flu, and have posted articles that support that. All that really shows is you have an affinity for articles and opinions that support your pre existing point of view. I'm not sure if you realize it or not, but medical professionals with those opinions are an overwhelming minority. However if that is all you are looking for, then that is all you are going to find.

 

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

21 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  Nobody that actually treats patients with Covid-19 would say it's like seasonal flu. From the beginning you have said this was just like flu, and have posted articles that support that. All that really shows is you have an affinity for articles and opinions that support your pre existing point of view. I'm not sure if you realize it or not, but medical professionals with those opinions are an overwhelming minority. However if that is all you are looking for, then that is all you are going to find.

 

 

Except that more and more doctors ARE saying just that.  From a viral standpoint, it is different.  From a death toll aspect, it's very much like the flu.  Less deadly so far, but we still have time for it to surpass flu deaths, of course.  Me saying it is just an educated guess, and as luck would have it, I'm turning out to be correct.  But when doctors with backgrounds in virology, and a strong grasp of biology say it... doesn't it lend more credence to the concept?

Also, I'll point out that "experts" predicted millions dead in the US from the virus in the beginning.  How right were THOSE doctors?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

29 minutes ago, Xyrstine said:

Claims are incorrect. I can personally vouch for that working in critical care. Many have died with no pre-existing conditions. Some otherwise young, fit and healthy. 

 

We have come across cases where the fitter of a cluster of patients end up passing away once intubated. We have already highlighted who are most at risk locally; high BMI's, people of black and ethnic minority groups, and pre-existing health condition such as diabetes, heart conditions and the usual respiratory conditions. Doesn't negate the fact it has and will continue to kill those that don't fit into those categories however. But yeah, continue to throw these expert opinions out here and lull people into a false sense of security.

What "claims are incorrect"?  

For the bold part... Is this your own anecdotal evidence, or are you referring to some statistic that is available to the public?  I obviously do not know ALL the cases of young people who have died from it, but thus far, all that I have read about DID have underlying issues.  Some unknown (like the athlete in his early twenties who had stage 4 cancer but didn't know it until he died from covid).

And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with anecdotal evidence, though some here will poo-pooh it.  It's correct for YOU, obviously.  And it colors your perception of the situation as it unfolds.

No one is trying to lure anyone into a sense of false security, least of all me.  If you feel you're at risk, STAY HOME!  As we know here, Yuna and NB2 fall into that category, so urging them out into the public without adequate protection would be silly.  But people who are otherwise healthy and not feeling sick?  By all means, get back to work and carry on with your life.  Personally, I haven't changed much in my daily life, except that I now go outside a lot more, exposing myself to the sun (which I normally avoid because I HATE how much I sweat) because it obviously has detrimental effects on all viruses.  

 

[Xyrstine 224]

16 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

What "claims are incorrect"?  

For the bold part... Is this your own anecdotal evidence, or are you referring to some statistic that is available to the public?  I obviously do not know ALL the cases of young people who have died from it, but thus far, all that I have read about DID have underlying issues.  Some unknown (like the athlete in his early twenties who had stage 4 cancer but didn't know it until he died from covid).

And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with anecdotal evidence, though some here will poo-pooh it.  It's correct for YOU, obviously.  And it colors your perception of the situation as it unfolds.

No one is trying to lure anyone into a sense of false security, least of all me.  If you feel you're at risk, STAY HOME!  As we know here, Yuna and NB2 fall into that category, so urging them out into the public without adequate protection would be silly.  But people who are otherwise healthy and not feeling sick?  By all means, get back to work and carry on with your life.  Personally, I haven't changed much in my daily life, except that I now go outside a lot more, exposing myself to the sun (which I normally avoid because I HATE how much I sweat) because it obviously has detrimental effects on all viruses.  

 

The claims that it will not affect you if you are fit, young and healthy.

 

If I could stay at home, I would... However, seeing as I'm on the frontlines as an ICU nurse, I don't have that option. We have treated our own colleagues, nurses and doctors alike, some have died. We initially nervously laughed at eachother into how we should be cared for if we were to be admitted, because that was our reality when this first started.

These studies that you keep on reading, keep on reading till you find one that correctly shows you how it does not just affect those with pre-existing health conditions. I'm fed up of people spouting facts at me when I know different and seen first hand of its true effects. It's not scaremongering, it's the truth. 

 

And it's not MY reality - it is THE reality unless I'm in some kind of Twilight zone.

 

Why do those that accept the true devastating effects have to stay at home? Why must it be black or white? I'm all for easing restrictions too but in a safe manner with people being encouraged to self isolate when symptomatic and mass testing available to reduce risk of spread.

 

Keeping yourself topped up in vitamins and healthy lifestyle will always be a natural deterrent for disease as it boosts your natural immunity. 

 

Once this is all over, at least I can say that I have done as much as I can to reduce this risk of infection to myself and my loved ones. I hope those that are readily wanting restrictions lifted can say the same and feel there are precautionary measures put in place to assist with that.

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Xyrstine

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

3 minutes ago, Xyrstine said:

The claims that it will not affect you if you are fit, young and healthy.

 

If I could stay at home, I would... However, seeing as I'm on the frontlines as an ICU nurse, I don't have that option. We have treated our own colleagues, nurses and doctors alike, some have died. We initially nervously laughed at eachother into how we should be cared for if we were to be admitted, because that was our reality when this first started.

These studiesthat you keep on reading, keep on reading till you find one that correctly shows you how it does not just affect those with pre-existing health conditions. I'm fed up of people spouting facts at me when I know different and seen first hand of its true effects. It's not scaremongering, it's the truth. 

 

Why do those that accept the true devastating effects have to stay at home? Why must it be black or white? I'm all for easing restrictions too but in a safe manner with people being encouraged to self isolate when symptomatic and mass testing available to reduce risk of spread.

 

Keeping yourself topped up in vitamins and healthy lifestyle will always be a natural deterrent for disease as it boosts your natural immunity. 

 

Once this is all over, at least I can say that I have done as much as I can to reduce this risk of infection to myself and my loved ones. I hope those that are readily wanting restrictions lifted can say the same and feel there are precautionary measures put in place to assist with that.

 

As I tell all my health care friends, and I have a bunch of them, thank you for what you do daily.  First and foremost, y'all deserve hero recognition just like a soldier in the military defending our nation against our enemies,  because that's what you are doing.  Thank you!

 

[Dashinka 24,793]

2 minutes ago, Xyrstine said:

The claims that it will not affect you if you are fit, young and healthy.

 

If I could stay at home, I would... However, seeing as I'm on the frontlines as an ICU nurse, I don't have that option. We have treated our own colleagues, nurses and doctors alike, some have died. We initially nervously laughed at eachother into how we should be cared for if we were to be admitted, because that was our reality when this first started.

These studiesthat you keep on reading, keep on reading till you find one that correctly shows you how it does not just affect those with pre-existing health conditions. I'm fed up of people spouting facts at me when I know different and seen first hand of its true effects. It's not scaremongering, it's the truth. 

 

Why do those that accept the true devastating effects have to stay at home? Why must it be black or white? I'm all for easing restrictions too but in a safe manner with people being encouraged to self isolate when symptomatic and mass testing available to reduce risk of spread.

 

Keeping yourself topped up in vitamins and healthy lifestyle will always be a natural deterrent for disease as it boosts your natural immunity. 

 

Once this is all over, at least I can say that I have done as much as I can to reduce this risk of infection to myself and my loved ones. I hope those that are readily wanting restrictions lifted can say the same and feel there are precautionary measures put in place to assist with that.

 

We are certainly grateful for everything you and @Steeleballz do, and I for one am glad we did what was necessary to lower the effects to the medical community at least here in the US, I cannot speak for the UK. What was done was necessary to gain knowledge as to the best way to treat this new virus, and I am sure there are a lot of new techniques being used everyday.  About 10 days ago, one of the things I was seeing here locally was that they were encouraging people not to wait until they could hardly breath before coming to the hospital.  There seemed to be more of a thought to treat things before a ventilator was required.  I only wish those directing the political leaders were looking at the entire picture.  Even here, Dr. Fauci said he was not considering the economic impacts at all relative to how many people would be effected and how many deaths of despair may come from a recession/depression.  That is probably the right thing to do for Dr. Fauci, but the political leaders need to be thinking this way.  This is why I have no problems with states making these kinds of decisions.  Of course with the biased political media here, some governors will be lambasted for their decisions, but we cannot make these decisions based on the mentality of saving one life.  That may sound cold, but it is a fact of life.

[yuna628 9,713]

About the two doctors on the video I mentioned before. Here's at least one very long twitter thread offering a rebuttal from someone who specializes and was on a team of researchers at UW. But you can find a whole host of people rebutting all over the place. You'll need to read through the thing (can't quite figure out how to post the thread of numerous posts). I'm not even going to start commenting on the credentials they're attempting to throw around. Sorry for the delay, you see good ol' Yuna has not been able to see a proper doctor in several weeks and popped herself out a kidney stone, was told to go to the ER to be sure (I'm pretty dang sure), did not want to go to the ER and catch something, but would just like to be seen by a doctor that can actually help her, but while she was busy popping out that kidney stone (it hurts ya'll) she cracked her tooth and can't get a dentist to help either. So Yuna has been checking into VJ briefly before being mansplained that she should just be in bed resting. Not that resting is going to help the dang tooth and it's a tossup what actually hurts more. Probably the stone. COVID sucks blah blah blah.

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by yuna628

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 minute ago, yuna628 said:

Sorry for the delay, you see good ol' Yuna has not been able to see a proper doctor in several weeks and popped herself out a kidney stone, was told to go to the ER to be sure (I'm pretty dang sure), did not want to go to the ER and catch something, but would just like to be seen by a doctor that can actually help her, but while she was busy popping out that kidney stone (it hurts ya'll) she cracked her tooth and can't get a dentist to help either. So Yuna has been checking into VJ briefly before being mansplained that she should just be in bed resting. Not that resting is going to help the dang tooth and it's a tossup what actually hurts more. Probably the stone. COVID sucks blah blah blah.

Your tardiness shall be forgiven, if ye make us all a sammich.

 

For real doh,  a kidney stone??  Ouch. Which is worse, childbirth or dealing with the stone?

 

Also, how in the heck did you crack a tooth while passing a stone?  I hope it wasn't due to verifying the calcification of the stone itself???