Experts demolish studies suggesting COVID-19 is no worse than flu

[Dashinka 24,741]

22 minutes ago, Xyrstine said:

Here's the thing- I don't disagree with you. I previously posted how each state should be slowly lifting measures as how their stats show peak status etc but each state will be different. However it will be difficult to contain each state in its own domain with regards to peak status and avoiding double peaks, so people will be looking into a national response to when measures should be lifted. This is due to free and easy travel between the states. That's where the additional dilemma comes in and why precautionary measures should still be in place. The Swedes are perceived as much more government compliant to US/UK so there numbers will differ.

 

People will assumed my posts mean I want people to stay home and twiddle their homes in a bubble indefinitely. It's really not. I want to travel and see my husband and family as much as the next person but it requires extensive mechanisms in place like mass testing which most governments really are failing at. Strong leadership is also key factor in guiding your country to where it needs to be which is also lacking in many problem countries. 

 

I also think more transparency is required for figures and consistency in reporting. I think it will bring weight to both sides of the arguments- mainly towards apprehension in lifting measures quickly. I know even after the peak, ICUs will still have a lot on their hands until a vaccine is found due to the complexity, and infectious and lethal nature of this virus. Recoveries after hospitalisation is a slow painful process so I can see why the figures show up slower.

 

I don't think anyone will be fudging up stats to bump up fatalities if anything it's in everyone's best interest for it not to. That's why I find it hard to understand for those that are debating these numbers to suit their rhetoric.

You should go and watch or listen to the video of the CA ER Drs.,  

 

 

[90DayFinancier 910]

7 hours ago, Dashinka said:

You should go and watch or listen to the video of the CA ER Drs.,  

 

 

Again with the GoDaddy sites.  Funny folks won't go to twitter, but want me to click on a parked website.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

4 minutes ago, 90DayFinancier said:

Again with the GoDaddy sites.  Funny folks won't go to twitter, but want me to click on a parked website.

GoDaddy is simply a web hosting site.  Why the hatred for them?  They produce a product that makes it easy for people to create their own websites quickly.  Lots of home businesses use them.  Why are they suddenly invalid after all these years?

Do you share the same disdain for YouTube videos of doctors sharing their professional opinions?
 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Voice of Reason

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

1 minute ago, Voice of Reason said:

GoDaddy is simply a web hosting site.  Why the hatred for them?  They produce a product that makes it easy for people to create their own websites quickly.  Lots of home businesses use them.  Why are they suddenly invalid after all these years?

Do you share the same disdain for YouTube videos of doctors sharing their professional opinions?
 

 

And use to have really hot chicks on commercials 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

9 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

And use to have really hot chicks on commercials 

Oh yeah?  I must have missed that.  Drat the luck!!

[Ban Hammer 13,491]

the website name godaddy always makes me think of kip's user name.........

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

3 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

Oh yeah?  I must have missed that.  Drat the luck!!

Well i dare not link. Lol. The VJ jail needs revenues 

[OriZ 3,157]

13 hours ago, Dashinka said:

Measures were put in place to reduce stress on the medical community.  Some countries changed strategies midstream, some locked down early, and some did not lock down at all.  We have comparisons all over the place, but I like to look at Sweden vs Michigan, which is a valid a comparison as any other country or state to Italy or Spain.  The curve has been flattened as we have already discussed, but that doesn’t change the area under the curve.

 

As to the antibody testing, he is the thread discussing this aspect.

 

 

I still think that's not the right comparison. Even if we ignore cultural differences - one is a state, and one is a country. In the US, you're not in a vacuum, people traveling from one state to another have infected many(in fact, our first few cases in VT were from people coming out of MA and NY). The US was very late to react. MI didn't close non essential services until mar 23, didn't issue stay at home order till mar 24, didn't close schools till mar 16. Most states were about the same or later. On the other hand, Sweden's neighbors acted faster. Most everything was locked down and borders closed by Mar 11-12, at least for Denmark and Norway. In fact, most borders in europe were closed by that time.

 

Sweden, then, was left dealing with nothing but community transmission, long before MI, so comparing current numbers when there was an almost 2 week delay, isn't very beneifical. It allowed asymptomatic cases to pile up in Michigan, much like it did in the rest of the country, before testing was ramped up. With the ramp up in testing, we are seeing higher numbers of infections. Michigan also is testing 70% more per 1 mil people than Sweden is.

 

That said, if we look at rate of change instead, which precedes changes in actual number of cases, then yesterday sweden saw a ~2.5% increase while Michigan's was only ~1.5%.

Edited April 27, 2020 by OriZ

[TBoneTX 45,962]

14 hours ago, Xyrstine said:

our prime minister rightly stated, MANY Will die before their time.

For example, I visit my doctor, get a clean bill of health, and have 30 years of projected life expectancy.  In the parking lot after I leave the office, I drop dead.  Have I died before my time?

[Dashinka 24,741]

4 hours ago, OriZ said:

I still think that's not the right comparison. Even if we ignore cultural differences - one is a state, and one is a country. In the US, you're not in a vacuum, people traveling from one state to another have infected many(in fact, our first few cases in VT were from people coming out of MA and NY). The US was very late to react. MI didn't close non essential services until mar 23, didn't issue stay at home order till mar 24, didn't close schools till mar 16. Most states were about the same or later. On the other hand, Sweden's neighbors acted faster. Most everything was locked down and borders closed by Mar 11-12, at least for Denmark and Norway. In fact, most borders in europe were closed by that time.

 

Sweden, then, was left dealing with nothing but community transmission, long before MI, so comparing current numbers when there was an almost 2 week delay, isn't very beneifical. It allowed asymptomatic cases to pile up in Michigan, much like it did in the rest of the country, before testing was ramped up. With the ramp up in testing, we are seeing higher numbers of infections. Michigan also is testing 70% more per 1 mil people than Sweden is.

 

That said, if we look at rate of change instead, which precedes changes in actual number of cases, then yesterday sweden saw a ~2.5% increase while Michigan's was only ~1.5%.

Sweden is part of the Schengen Area, so from an EU perspective, it is very much like a state.  Stockholm is a large Metropolitan area with several daily international flights similar to the Detroit metro area.  Norway and Finland did their initial bans (public gatherings, school closures etc. note, Norway never closed non-essential businesses, Finland did but not until April 8th) on March 12, Michigan banned mass gatherings on March 13th, and closed restaurants/schools March 16th.  Norway, Sweden and Finland never issued any stay at home orders, and Michigan issued that on March 24th.  I already discussed the similarities of Sweden and MI relative population and population density along with climate.   Is it a perfect comparison, no, you will not find any perfect comparisons out there (you keep using the Italy/US comparison or at the very least Italy/NYC comparison which is even more tenuous), but even your numbers show Sweden is in a better position as MI which shows any claims that the overboard reaction of the MI government was more beneficial questionable.

[Xyrstine 224]

7 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

For example, I visit my doctor, get a clean bill of health, and have 30 years of projected life expectancy.  In the parking lot after I leave the office, I drop dead.  Have I died before my time?

Well, considering this pandemic is something we know about and are aware of its route of transmission for the most part - why risk spreading something we can actively do about for now? I'm all for those to continue shielding and self isolate when they need to, to reduce risk of spread and also keeping themselves as safe as they can. Our vulnerable will most likely have to keep themselves safe until a vaccine is found and/or it fizzles out (why testing is so important due to its wide range of symptoms).

 

We can get really petty and say not to leave the house at all due to risk of accidents but we both know what I mean by this. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Xyrstine

[OriZ 3,157]

6 hours ago, Dashinka said:

Sweden is part of the Schengen Area, so from an EU perspective, it is very much like a state.  Stockholm is a large Metropolitan area with several daily international flights similar to the Detroit metro area.  Norway and Finland did their initial bans (public gatherings, school closures etc. note, Norway never closed non-essential businesses, Finland did but not until April 8th) on March 12, Michigan banned mass gatherings on March 13th, and closed restaurants/schools March 16th.  Norway, Sweden and Finland never issued any stay at home orders, and Michigan issued that on March 24th.  I already discussed the similarities of Sweden and MI relative population and population density along with climate.   Is it a perfect comparison, no, you will not find any perfect comparisons out there (you keep using the Italy/US comparison or at the very least Italy/NYC comparison which is even more tenuous), but even your numbers show Sweden is in a better position as MI which shows any claims that the overboard reaction of the MI government was more beneficial questionable.

So...then like I said, you can't compare it without taking into account what the other "states" around it did.

 

You can't compare mass gatherings to a closure of everything. I honestly don't know why anyone in the US thought it was a good idea to just ban mass gatherings and call it a day for two weeks. I have a friend in Denmark who literally told me on the 11th everything was in lockdown(they had like 500 cases at the time...they didn't wait very long at all).

 

As I said, the spread in MI right now is slower than in Sweden(doubling rate of 20 days vs 16 days). You may interpret that however you wish.

Edited April 27, 2020 by OriZ

[Dashinka 24,741]

8 minutes ago, OriZ said:

So...then like I said, you can't compare it without taking into account what the other "states" around it did.

 

You can't compare mass gatherings to a closure of everything. I honestly don't know why anyone in the US thought it was a good idea to just ban mass gatherings and call it a day for two weeks. I have a friend in Denmark who literally told me on the 11th everything was in lockdown(they had like 500 cases at the time...they didn't wait very long at all).

 

As I said, the spread in MI right now is slower than in Sweden(doubling rate of 20 days vs 16 days). You may interpret that however you wish.

My interpretation is that Sweden wil have much less economic distress than Michigan.

[TBoneTX 45,962]

It would be interesting and perhaps instructive to learn the infection/death/recovery rates in the large Muslim enclaves in Sweden.  However, those data might never be available or accessible.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

13 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

For example, I visit my doctor, get a clean bill of health, and have 30 years of projected life expectancy.  In the parking lot after I leave the office, I drop dead.  Have I died before my time?

 

  Your doctor gives you a projected life expectancy based on an office visit? He must be paying for the AAA+ malpractice insurance.