Wuhan laboratory scientists 'did absolutely crazy things' to alter coronavirus and enabled it to infect humans, Russian microbiologist claims

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Conspiracy theorist claims in 3, 2, 1....

 

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A leading Russian microbiologist has claimed the coronavirus is the result of Wuhan scientists doing 'absolutely crazy things' in their laboratory.

World renowned expert Professor Petr Chumakov claimed their aim was to study the pathogenicity of the virus and not 'with malicious intent' to deliberately create a manmade killer.

Professor Chumakov, chief researcher at the Engelhardt Institute of Molecular Biology in Moscow, said: 'In China, scientists at the Wuhan Laboratory have been actively involved in the development of various coronavirus variants for over ten years.

'Moreover, they did this, supposedly not with the aim of creating pathogenic variants, but to study their pathogenicity.

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8249875/Wuhan-laboratory-scientists-did-absolutely-crazy-things-alter-coronavirus.html

[TBoneTX 45,962]

This story just kills me...

[millefleur 5,047]

Isn't this just the same old trope of mad scientist who regrets his creation, as in "Help! I've created a monster!!" Frankenstein fashion? Tinkering with nature doesn't always turn out how we expect.

 

23 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Professor Chumakov, chief researcher at the Engelhardt Institute of Molecular Biology in Moscow, said: 'In China, scientists at the Wuhan Laboratory have been actively involved in the development of various coronavirus variants for over ten years.

Also, why would anyone want to "develop" a virus? I'm really ignorant of this stuff and I don't understand what the aim of that is.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

8 minutes ago, millefleur said:

Isn't this just the same old trope of mad scientist who regrets his creation, as in "Help! I've created a monster!!" Frankenstein fashion? Tinkering with nature doesn't always turn out how we expect.

 

Also, why would anyone want to "develop" a virus? I'm really ignorant of this stuff and I don't understand what the aim of that is.

It's been done for many decades, nothing new.  All countries do it.  It's called biological warfare.  The viruses can be weaponized to take out the enemy in battle.  Also, understanding how viruses work help us to understand how better to combat them.There are good as well as bad reasons to develop and work with them.  It was known years ago that the Wuhan lab housed over 1500 different viruses. 

ETA:  Ever hear of MAD?  Mutually Assured Destruction.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Voice of Reason

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

6 minutes ago, millefleur said:

Isn't this just the same old trope of mad scientist who regrets his creation, as in "Help! I've created a monster!!" Frankenstein fashion? Tinkering with nature doesn't always turn out how we expect.

 

Also, why would anyone want to "develop" a virus? I'm really ignorant of this stuff and I don't understand what the aim of that is.

 

 

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'Moreover, they did this, supposedly not with the aim of creating pathogenic variants, but to study their pathogenicity.

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He said the Chinese scientists created 'variants of the virus … without malicious intent' possibly aiming for an HIV vaccine.

 

At any rate.. no doubt it's nice that someone is coming forward with this info, but my questions and comments to this are:

 

- Has Petr been at this lab? Does he have tangible evidence we can look at? He cited supposed information, he couldn't give specific resources? On such an important issue, I don't trust words alone.

 

- There are other things floating around like that it was deliberately released. If you believe this person on the man-made thing, he says that it was not deliberately released.. or rather: "not 'with malicious intent' to deliberately create a manmade killer". 

 

I don't see anything on Snopes covering this but Politifact has went out of its way to conclude on the issue.. so, wouldn't be the first time they've jumped the gun and have been wrong in fact checking people as "false"/"pants on fire" who wound up being right. I do want to see more evidence though, but I think this is a start. Investigation needs to go full speed ahead. 

[millefleur 5,047]

4 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

It's been done for many decades, nothing new.  All countries do it.  It's called biological warfare.  The viruses can be weaponized to take out the enemy in battle.  Also, understanding how viruses work help us to understand how better to combat them.There are good as well as bad reasons to develop and work with them.  It was known years ago that the Wuhan lab housed over 1500 different viruses. 

ETA:  Ever hear of MAD?  Mutually Assured Destruction.

But I thought bioweapons were mutually banned around the world as a potential war crime by the majority of countries? Whereas nuclear has been out in the open for decades and that's where the MAD applies.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_Weapons_Convention

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

2 minutes ago, millefleur said:

But I thought bioweapons were mutually banned around the world as a potential war crime by the majority of countries? Whereas nuclear has been out in the open for decades and that's where the MAD applies.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_Weapons_Convention

Sounds great on paper.  But not all countries fall in line with the rest.  

 

The US Army used to have Ft. Detrick, but it was closed down.

 

Now, there is:

https://mrdc.amedd.army.mil/index.cfm/program_areas/medical_research_and_development/medchembio_overview

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

2 minutes ago, millefleur said:

But I thought bioweapons were mutually banned around the world as a potential war crime by the majority of countries? Whereas nuclear has been out in the open for decades and that's where the MAD applies.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_Weapons_Convention

The key word might be "weapons"..

 

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/05/when-viruses-escape-the-lab/371202/

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MAY 20, 2014

Scientists Are Creating New, Incurable Diseases in Labs

Swine flu, or H1N1, had been dead for 20 years when it suddenly re-emerged in 1977 with a curious twist. The new strain was genetically similar to one from the 1950s, almost as though it had been sitting frozen in a lab since then. Indeed, it eventually became clear that the late-70s flu outbreak was likely the result of a lowly lab worker’s snafu.

Lab accidents like that are extremely rare. Still, two scientists are now arguing that it’s not worth continuing to create new, transmissible versions of deadly viruses in labs because the risk that the diseases will escape and infect the public is too great.

The H5N1 avian flu killed two dozen people in Hong Kong in 1997. It has only killed about 400 people worldwide since then, though, because it doesn’t pass easily from human to human.

In recent years, scientists have found a way to make H5N1 jump between ferrets, the best animal model for flu viruses in humans. They say they need to create a transmissible version in order to better understand the disease and to prepare potential vaccines.

 

 

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“The concern is that you're making something that doesn't exist in nature and combines high virulence for people with the ability to transmit efficiently,” Lipsitch told me.

Accidents involving lab-grown pathogens aren’t just the stuff of sci-fi movies. A Singaporean lab worker was inadvertently infected with SARS in 2003. In 2004, a Russian scientist died after accidentally sticking herself with a needle contaminated with Ebola at a Siberian lab. In April, Paris’ Pasteur Institute lost 2,000 vials containing the SARS virus. And in March, the Galveston National Laboratory in Texas lost a vialcontaining Guanarito virus, which causes "bleeding under the skin, in internal organs or from body orifices like the mouth, eyes, or ears.”

 

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“The hazard is, could it ever by accident or by evil design leave those two containments and actually be introduced into the population again and spread?” William Schaffner, chair of preventive medicine at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville told ABC News. The World Health Assembly is deciding this week whether to destroy the vials.

Most labs have near-bulletproof safety standards, with workers wearing plastic hoods and working behind heavy steel doors. Still, leaks can happen because of failures in respiratory equipment, Lipsitch said, or if a worker accidentally touches their eyes or nose with a contaminated glove.

 

 

It's also a question of whether or not something is enforceable. 

 

Overall, it seems we've accepted some risk for the sake of scientific advancement. Of course, there's always questions about the risk such experimentation runs to the populace.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

I will only say this... I have talked to people who know a LOT more than I do about the US bioweapon research labs, and even though they are not widely talked about, they exist.  For good reason.