Trumps Press Conference

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Could go either way.

 

Pa. removes 200 deaths from state coronavirus count as questions mount about reporting process, accuracy
 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pa-removes-200-deaths-from-state-coronavirus-count-as-questions-mount-about-reporting-process-accuracy/ar-BB13a4XF

 

    So they removed probable deaths?  Unconfirmed (probable) deaths can legally be listed as long as the criteria are met, such as symptoms. There are guidelines for doing that in the absence of testing, but they should not be adding probable deaths if a test is pending because these will eventually be confirmed as positive or negative. At the same time, many earlier deaths that were not tested may be added as Covid-19 based on symptoms.  

 

   I'm not saying discrepancies can't occur, but these were corrected. It is likely that most of these were reported early. Removing the deaths now does not preclude them from adding them back in when they are confirmed. 

 

 

[Dashinka 24,741]

1 minute ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    So they removed probable deaths?  Unconfirmed (probable) deaths can legally be listed as long as the criteria are met, such as symptoms. There are guidelines for doing that in the absence of testing, but they should not be adding probable deaths if a test is pending because these will eventually be confirmed as positive or negative. At the same time, many earlier deaths that were not tested may be added as Covid-19 based on symptoms.  

 

   I'm not saying discrepancies can't occur, but these were corrected. It is likely that most of these were reported early. Removing the deaths now does not preclude them from adding them back in when they are confirmed. 

 

 

Possibly, the point is the reporting guidelines do not appear to be clear, and just like everything else, will change as more information is learned.  This was discussed several times, and it comes down to are people being reported as dying “of” Covid19, or “with” Covid19.  This also applies to the potential of much more widespread infections going back many months which is another big unknown.

[Xyrstine 224]

Just reading this thread and beyond, I find it interesting how the US views the threat of this pandemic. Just because you don't have any underlying conditions or are not elderly doesn't mean you are immune. Many of the patients we are seeing in Critical Care live healthy and normal lives before this. I find it incredulous that despite seeing the stats of deaths people are content to take the risk of being exposed and bring it back to their families.... Really?? Some people will always be a little more susceptible to it, and underlying conditions won't help, as well as factors such as age, and even BMI. 

 

Earlier lockdown measures would have made a difference on capacity in critical care and not risk running out of life saving resources, be it machines (ventilators/dialysis) and/or medications and PPE.

 

Back to the point on hand... When you are the President of a leading country... You have no business giving medical information on issues you know nothing about. Millions are watching. So yeah, he was being an idiot. Change the rhetoric how you want but those clips are available for everyone to see. Take it how you will (and most will say he's an idiot too).

[spookyturtle 9,466]

38 minutes ago, 90DayFinancier said:

Checking in, do we call 9-1-1 or are you good?

I’m tremendous. 

[spookyturtle 9,466]

22 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Could go either way.

 

Pa. removes 200 deaths from state coronavirus count as questions mount about reporting process, accuracy
 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pa-removes-200-deaths-from-state-coronavirus-count-as-questions-mount-about-reporting-process-accuracy/ar-BB13a4XF

I’d they remove them from the list will they be alive again? 

[Ban Hammer 13,491]

13 minutes ago, spookyturtle said:

I’m tremendous. 

sheep are still scared.  and scarred for life.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

Just now, spookyturtle said:

I’d they remove them from the list will they be alive again? 

 

  They just removed probable deaths due to Covid-19 until they are confirmed. The people are still dead, and they will likely end up being added as confirmed deaths. From my own experience, it is not uncommon for some patients with severe symptoms to die before the test results come back, especially early in the pandemic when testing was taking forever. There is usually no question just based on symptoms that they had Covid-19. In those cases, both loved ones and public health officials still want to know for sure. 

 

  

 

[Xyrstine 224]

5 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  They just removed probable deaths due to Covid-19 until they are confirmed. The people are still dead, and they will likely end up being added as confirmed deaths. From my own experience, it is not uncommon for some patients with severe symptoms to die before the test results come back, especially early in the pandemic when testing was taking forever. There is usually no question just based on symptoms that they had Covid-19. In those cases, both loved ones and public health officials still want to know for sure. 

 

  

 

More transparency is needed into how these deaths are being reported. In the UK the figures are under reported and are cases for only those that have passed away in hospital after being tested positive. 

[Dashinka 24,741]

47 minutes ago, Xyrstine said:

Just reading this thread and beyond, I find it interesting how the US views the threat of this pandemic. Just because you don't have any underlying conditions or are not elderly doesn't mean you are immune. Many of the patients we are seeing in Critical Care live healthy and normal lives before this. I find it incredulous that despite seeing the stats of deaths people are content to take the risk of being exposed and bring it back to their families.... Really?? Some people will always be a little more susceptible to it, and underlying conditions won't help, as well as factors such as age, and even BMI. 

 

Earlier lockdown measures would have made a difference on capacity in critical care and not risk running out of life saving resources, be it machines (ventilators/dialysis) and/or medications and PPE.

 

Back to the point on hand... When you are the President of a leading country... You have no business giving medical information on issues you know nothing about. Millions are watching. So yeah, he was being an idiot. Change the rhetoric how you want but those clips are available for everyone to see. Take it how you will (and most will say he's an idiot too).

But that goes against the reasons for the shelter in place (SIP) directives.  Based on Drs. Fauci and Birx, these were needed to flatten the curve and take the pressure off the healthcare system not necessarily to change the area under the curve.  In the US it appears to have done what was intended to the point that a lot of medical facilities are now laying off staff (both medical and non-medical), permanent, and temporary hospitals are being mothballed,  and with all the companies making ventilators, it appears we will have more than enough.  Now we hear we need to SIP to save lives, sort of a changing narrative.  Now the UK changed directions midstream, they were going to follow the Swedish model, but then later switched to an SIP strategy.

[Xyrstine 224]

11 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

But that goes against the reasons for the shelter in place (SIP) directives.  Based on Drs. Fauci and Birx, these were needed to flatten the curve and take the pressure off the healthcare system not necessarily to change the area under the curve.  In the US it appears to have done what was intended to the point that a lot of medical facilities are now laying off staff (both medical and non-medical), permanent, and temporary hospitals are being mothballed,  and with all the companies making ventilators, it appears we will have more than enough.  Now we hear we need to SIP to save lives, sort of a changing narrative.  Now the UK changed directions midstream, they were going to follow the Swedish model, but then later switched to an SIP strategy.

The fact is that the peak and curve is affecting states at different times. Some will not have hit the peak yet. Unfortunately the US is a much more difficult place to impose such rules effectively and understandably lifting them because the risk of spreading this is so high. Taking caution is the obvious step here. It depends on what you value more. 

 

What's annoying is if the President had explained this and had a contingency plan then it would be better for all- both those wanting these measures lifted and those that think it should remain. 

 

My husband is lucky in that he lives in a rural place where lockdown measures happened earlier so there is less outbreak. That won't last once people start to travel. Many of those people are at huge risk... I'm all for prevention being the cure. 

 

We are at the stage of considering the next step for slowly lifting restrictions due to the stats. I personally think it should be like that- state by state with guidance on travelling between them.

The herd immunity model was like genocide for us and lockdown measures was the only thing that has kept it somewhat under control.

 

We are well aware that if lockdown measures are off completely that people WILL die. So many will have to stay in isolation for much longer for their protection and possibly when risk of exposure dies down or a vaccine becomes available. It's already in place and is called shielding where those that are particularly vulnerable are limiting contact. 

Edited April 25, 2020 by Xyrstine

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 hour ago, Xyrstine said:

More transparency is needed into how these deaths are being reported. In the UK the figures are under reported and are cases for only those that have passed away in hospital after being tested positive. 

 

   I think under reporting is probably prevalent in most countries, but we are probably more accurate right now than we were a month ago. I expect to see a lot of revised numbers going forward.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, OriZ said:

100%.

Not 100%.  All one has to do is read articles about the discrepancies.  But each of us can believe which tales we choose.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

35 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

But that goes against the reasons for the shelter in place (SIP) directives.  Based on Drs. Fauci and Birx, these were needed to flatten the curve and take the pressure off the healthcare system not necessarily to change the area under the curve.  In the US it appears to have done what was intended to the point that a lot of medical facilities are now laying off staff (both medical and non-medical), permanent, and temporary hospitals are being mothballed,  and with all the companies making ventilators, it appears we will have more than enough.  Now we hear we need to SIP to save lives, sort of a changing narrative.  Now the UK changed directions midstream, they were going to follow the Swedish model, but then later switched to an SIP strategy.

 

  Hospitals have had to cancel elective procedures and routine outpatient work for the last month and a half. I can't speak for every state, but here, that was part of the governors executive order. Layoffs are not because of the number of patients with Covid-19. It's because the rest of the hospital - surgery, physical therapy, laboratory, XRAY etc do not have the work they normally would have. 

 

   At the beginning of April, we had ICU and one medical floor full of Covid-19 patients. They had also converted surgical floors, and one of the neonatal ICU units was converted for obstetric isolation. It was extremely busy as nursing workload goes. Nurses had to work overtime as other departments had people going home because there was nothing to do. The latest email I saw was that we operated at a deficit of roughly $70 million for April. I'm not surprised that some hospitals are going under.

 

[Dashinka 24,741]

1 minute ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  Hospitals have had to cancel elective procedures and routine outpatient work for the last month and a half. I can't speak for every state, but here, that was part of the governors executive order. Layoffs are not because of the number of patients with Covid-19. It's because the rest of the hospital - surgery, physical therapy, laboratory, XRAY etc do not have the work they normally would have. 

 

   At the beginning of April, we had ICU and one medical floor full of Covid-19 patients. They had also converted surgical floors, and one of the neonatal ICU units was converted for obstetric isolation. It was extremely busy as nursing workload goes. Nurses had to work overtime as other departments had people going home because there was nothing to do. The latest email I saw was that we operated at a deficit of roughly $70 million for April. I'm not surprised that some hospitals are going under.

 

The question is how long will it take these hospitals to recover?  I know if it were me, the last place I would want to go is to a hospital.  If I could put off anything elective such as an orthopedic procedure, I definitely would.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 minute ago, Dashinka said:

The question is how long will it take these hospitals to recover?  I know if it were me, the last place I would want to go is to a hospital.  If I could put off anything elective such as an orthopedic procedure, I definitely would.

 

  Hard to predict. Depends on the hospital. We are starting surgeries next week. Patients get tested for Covid-19 before surgery. All kinds of protocols in place. Next week is basically procedures that were elective at one time but are/soon to be emergent, so those people couldn't wait any longer.  On the other hand, if I was overdue to have my cholesterol checked, I would just wait a while. 

 

  Personally, I'll be hesitant to do anything elective for a bit. Not just medical, but dental, car maintenance, any home project etc. I try not to be cynical, but I feel like there will be some people out there looking for ways to make up for lost revenue. Might be a difficult time for people who can't resist the hard sell.