Will an injunction be filed? EO

[Just Paul 4,595]

1 hour ago, vincentlina said:

Doesn't Americans work in farms too?

Not as pickers.  Our faternal family has an operation and needs 200 to 400 pickers at different times of the year.  They go thru the department of Labor to get certification because no Americans will take 15 to 17 dollars an hour (got to pay the prevailing wages), plus medical car, free schooling and free housing to do manual labor outdoors in the sun.  H2B visas all over.  If you would like to pick some of your own lettuce, asparagus, oranges, cotton and alfalfa I can give you my cousin's number.  They also do honey and chickens if that is more your thing.

[Duke & Marie 1,389]

27 minutes ago, Paul & Mary said:

Not as pickers.  Our faternal family has an operation and needs 200 to 400 pickers at different times of the year.  They go thru the department of Labor to get certification because no Americans will take 15 to 17 dollars an hour (got to pay the prevailing wages), plus medical car, free schooling and free housing to do manual labor outdoors in the sun.  H2B visas all over.  If you would like to pick some of your own lettuce, asparagus, oranges, cotton and alfalfa I can give you my cousin's number.  They also do honey and chickens if that is more your thing.

I’ve got a kid or two that could do with some good physical labor for $17ph 😂It seriously wouldn’t hurt much of the younger generation and a good way to see their home country... beats me why they don’t do it, when happy to do it in Aus or uk for less 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Duke & Marie

[vincentlina 74]

9 hours ago, Paul & Mary said:

Not as pickers.  Our faternal family has an operation and needs 200 to 400 pickers at different times of the year.  They go thru the department of Labor to get certification because no Americans will take 15 to 17 dollars an hour (got to pay the prevailing wages), plus medical car, free schooling and free housing to do manual labor outdoors in the sun.  H2B visas all over.  If you would like to pick some of your own lettuce, asparagus, oranges, cotton and alfalfa I can give you my cousin's number.  They also do honey and chickens if that is more your thing.

Yes, please. The next pandemic will be food shortage and starvation (across many parts of the world -- some communities within US will experience some degree of it too). A pandemic within a pandemic if you will. It's kinda funny how this administration has bullied, vilified and downright dehumanized most immigrants (particularly those from the South of us), when (as you rightly mentioned) these are the very same people the rest of "us" Americans depends on to eat. Anyways, I would appreciate if you pass me along that info for your cousins' number -- I'm investing in a farm in my wife's home country (and I thoroughly enjoy planting/digging in the dirt -- it's a transcendent experience to "create" something and watch it grow).

[vincentlina 74]

12 hours ago, Duke & Marie said:

Well spouses and children of green card holders again comes down to chain migration.. it’s not unusual for countries to take this approach, people need to become citizens prior to bringing in additional family members or the whole marry for a GC divorce remarry and sponsor thing gets out of control. Back home only citizens can sponsor and even then it takes 7 years... the US has been very relaxed in this approach so it’s not surprising 

The point that many who takes this perspective is that, that very "flaw" as many of you call it is the very foundation of why the US is leading the world, economically, educationally, technologically, etc. These so called "chain" migration paves the way for "new" infusion of talent, creative minds and diversity of thoughts, which help fuel the country's entrepreneurial and technological spirits. Many of the US leading entrepreneurs are immigrants or receipts of one or two chain migration immigrant. Bottom line: US relatively relaxed (I disagree, but going with your terminology) immigration system is the #1 reason why the US is #1 in the world. As the Statue of Liberty personifies -- "this is a nation of immigrants." Plain and simple!

[Ontarkie 14,307]

~~Moved to Covid-19, from Bringing Family of PR~~

[Duke & Marie 1,389]

3 hours ago, vincentlina said:

The point that many who takes this perspective is that, that very "flaw" as many of you call it is the very foundation of why the US is leading the world, economically, educationally, technologically, etc. These so called "chain" migration paves the way for "new" infusion of talent, creative minds and diversity of thoughts, which help fuel the country's entrepreneurial and technological spirits. Many of the US leading entrepreneurs are immigrants or receipts of one or two chain migration immigrant. Bottom line: US relatively relaxed (I disagree, but going with your terminology) immigration system is the #1 reason why the US is #1 in the world. As the Statue of Liberty personifies -- "this is a nation of immigrants." Plain and simple!

Arguable, The US isn’t a highly multicultural country when you consider 15% of the population is born overseas, are you proposing the remaining 85% of the countries residents does nothing to contribute to this so called entrepreneurial and technological spirit?

 

Have you compared the performance of the US with other highly multicultural countries to support your claim that immigration paves the way? Aus for example has 30% residents born overseas, UK 15% born overseas, neither country is doing quite so well.. so, I guess they just got unlucky when it came to emigrant entrepreneurial and technological spirit if working on your thesis 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Duke & Marie

[vincentlina 74]

7 hours ago, Duke & Marie said:

Arguable, The US isn’t a highly multicultural country when you consider 15% of the population is born overseas, are you proposing the remaining 85% of the countries residents does nothing to contribute to this so called entrepreneurial and technological spirit?

 

Have you compared the performance of the US with other highly multicultural countries to support your claim that immigration paves the way? Aus for example has 30% residents born overseas, UK 15% born overseas, neither country is doing quite so well.. so, I guess they just got unlucky when it came to emigrant entrepreneurial and technological spirit if working on your thesis 

The US has and will always be "a country of immigrants". Every single ethnic group in America migrated there from its inception with the exception Native Americans. The only different between a born US citizen as opposed to a recent arrived immigrant is how far down the family chain your family originally migrated to America. Let's take a homogeneous society like Japan...it has advance socioeconomically to the point its economy isn't growing any longer, while the US (bar the pandemic) still has much more growth to go.

 

Lastly, taking your argument that 15% of its population is born overseas -- what you fail to factor is that a large percentage of this 15% has offspring who are US born. So they get thrown into the 85% of the US residences category. You  would have to further break-down the 85% into more refine subsets to determine the true percentage who are perhaps, a 4th, 5th or 8th generation immigrant descendant (the so called born American). The end point being, the world is now one single global economy -- we are all interconnected more ways than this administration is wiling to admit (or have the wherewithal to acknowledge). We can no longer place erroneous barriers on borders as a means to boost optimal human capital. Just take a look at the mess we're currently facing with this pandemic as proof.

[Boiler 45,735]

1 hour ago, vincentlina said:

The US has and will always be "a country of immigrants". Every single ethnic group in America migrated there from its inception with the exception Native Americans. The only different between a born US citizen as opposed to a recent arrived immigrant is how far down the family chain your family originally migrated to America. Let's take a homogeneous society like Japan...it has advance socioeconomically to the point its economy isn't growing any longer, while the US (bar the pandemic) still has much more growth to go.

 

Lastly, taking your argument that 15% of its population is born overseas -- what you fail to factor is that a large percentage of this 15% has offspring who are US born. So they get thrown into the 85% of the US residences category. You  would have to further break-down the 85% into more refine subsets to determine the true percentage who are perhaps, a 4th, 5th or 8th generation immigrant descendant (the so called born American). The end point being, the world is now one single global economy -- we are all interconnected more ways than this administration is wiling to admit (or have the wherewithal to acknowledge). We can no longer place erroneous barriers on borders as a means to boost optimal human capital. Just take a look at the mess we're currently facing with this pandemic as proof.

I always wondered if Japanese homogeneous is a perception by those outside of Japanese society, because until relatively recently it was closed to external forces and whether the Japanese themselves would consider that to be the case.

 

I could equally argue that the pandemic has shown the failure of gobalisation, the inability of individual countries to protect their own citizens, not being able to provide simple things like protective equipment for its own healthcare workers.

 

The US (and the UK) have become very fragile societies.

[vincentlina 74]

20 hours ago, Boiler said:

I always wondered if Japanese homogeneous is a perception by those outside of Japanese society, because until relatively recently it was closed to external forces and whether the Japanese themselves would consider that to be the case.

 

I could equally argue that the pandemic has shown the failure of gobalisation, the inability of individual countries to protect their own citizens, not being able to provide simple things like protective equipment for its own healthcare workers.

 

The US (and the UK) have become very fragile societies.

I would definitely partly agree with your last assessment that on some levels, globalization has failed -- or directly, I would say, many of the leaders have failed their countries (citizens). Both Boris and Trump failed to plan from the obvious signs that were coming out of China. Boris until he caught it, was downloading the threat of this disease. So did Trump: "it will all disappear in the summer just like magic". So, for this one, I place it down to failure of leadership.

 

I saw this pandemic coming from early January. I was warning my friends and family that many countries are giving China a pass --  a country's whose leadership expelled journalists and silence it's own citizens (including doctors). So, yes, if there were no globalization, we wouldn't have had such free moment of people (whom carried the virus all over the globe). However, the only difference with this is that, the virus would have still spread, only that it's global impact might have been significantly less than what it  has become. Lastly, there were no globalization during the Spanish flu pandemic and that still managed to infect over 500 million people globally.

 

[Boiler 45,735]

Well the Spanish Flu is interesting, there was some discussion about it down in the gutter that is CEHST. The spread as far as I can work out was enhanced by the trenches of WW1, as troops were injured rotated out they took it back with them.Some suggestion came originally from barracks in Kansas.

 

Somebody I know is a Pharmacist and she would love passing on the latest gory stories, now for years I have been hearing about the drug resistant Superbug, is this quite the same, well no but has similarities.

Edited April 26, 2020 by Boiler