Protests show 'two Americas' — those who lost their jobs and those still getting paid

[Dashinka 24,741]

Protests show 'two Americas' — those who lost their jobs and those still getting paid
 

OK, so the country has been shut down for about a month, and we’re seeing cracks start to form. While some epidemiologists are talking about keeping things closed down for months longer, we’re also seeing growing public protests around the nation, as people call for restarting things.

 

Others shame them as “virus deniers” and accuse the protesters of wanting people to die. But it’s hard not to notice a class divide here. As with so many of America’s conflicts, the divide is between the people in the political/managerial class on the one hand and the people in the working class on the other. And as usual, the smugness and authoritarianism are pretty much all on one side.

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There really are two Americas here: Those still getting a paycheck from government, corporations or universities, and those who are unemployed, or seeing their small businesses suffer due to shutdowns. And the America still getting paid is, so far, not showing a whole lot of sympathy for the America that isn’t.

That’s a formula for disaster, and it has made worse by the heavy-handed approach taken by some government officials enforcing quarantines. We’ve seen news story after news story of officials going after people whose actions pose no danger of contagion — lone joggers on a beach, lone paddleboarders off the California coast, a father throwing a ball to his daughter in a public park — and every time that happens the shutdown loses moral authority.  

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/04/21/behind-protests-two-americas-one-unemployed-and-one-gets-paychecks-column/5167453002/

 

[TBoneTX 45,962]

Need to see how fast the goverment employees would squeal if their pay were interrupted.

[yuna628 9,700]

My husband has not lost his job and continues to work from home. We are certainly still working class and we certainly have sympathy for those who are not working at this time and are doing what we can do to help. Many of us are. It's kind of offensive that these opinion pieces seem to assume a great deal about our fellow Americans on all sides of the spectrum.

[Oliversmom 250]

I am not working by choice.  I am an independent contractor and I am not getting unemployment.  My husband is not working due to the coronavirus.  Things are a little tough right now.  We both want to go back to work.  But neither of us wants to go back too soon.  I have several underlying health conditions including ones that affect my lungs.  I really want to stay alive.  So I understand the protesters wanting to go back to work.  We have to get back to work.  But we have to be smart about it.  Look at Georgia.  Their numbers are still going up.  And they are opening hair salons, massage therapists, bowling alleys, movie theaters and restaurants.  They are NOT being smart.

[Dashinka 24,741]

6 minutes ago, Oliversmom said:

I am not working by choice.  I am an independent contractor and I am not getting unemployment.  My husband is not working due to the coronavirus.  Things are a little tough right now.  We both want to go back to work.  But neither of us wants to go back too soon.  I have several underlying health conditions including ones that affect my lungs.  I really want to stay alive.  So I understand the protesters wanting to go back to work.  We have to get back to work.  But we have to be smart about it.  Look at Georgia.  Their numbers are still going up.  And they are opening hair salons, massage therapists, bowling alleys, movie theaters and restaurants.  They are NOT being smart.

Georgia is easing restrictions allowing the businesses to make the decisions themselves.  There are quite a few studies of increased suicide rates, and increased substance abuse due to extreme economic stress, there has to be a balance.

[yuna628 9,700]

9 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Georgia is easing restrictions allowing the businesses to make the decisions themselves.  There are quite a few studies of increased suicide rates, and increased substance abuse due to extreme economic stress, there has to be a balance.

Suicide and substance abuse are choices people make. Maybe they should not make those choices.

[Dashinka 24,741]

Just now, yuna628 said:

Suicide and substance abuse are choices people make. Maybe they should not make those choices.

Choices made under extreme stress.  A lot of imposed stress now days.

[yuna628 9,700]

Just now, Dashinka said:

Choices made under extreme stress.  A lot of imposed stress now days.

It's still a choice. Stress is the excuse for the choice to try and explain an illogical action, a way to make one feel better about the action. Perhaps psychological help should have been sought. If one's existence was that fragile to begin with, a variety of reasons would have been utilized eventually. Suicide and substance abuse are selfish choices that people make every day, strangely, people weren't suddenly concerned about these actions pre pandemic. I mean some were for decades, and try to help, but suddenly a pandemic happens and now there's real concern about this 'sudden' pressing issue. It may be better if people could focus on enjoying being alive and safe with their families in their homes, be actually grateful for a change - but a selfish species rarely will be for long. That may sound harsh, but life is pretty harsh. Pandemics have consequences, far reaching ones. History tells us this.. but we never learn from things.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

You're a selfish person if you feel stressed or suicidal after government's imposed stay at home orders ruined your life and your ability to seek comfort in the company of others.

 

Make better choices.

 

Although, I gotta say, if the lesson is "life is harsh", I have a better one.. freedom. Life is harsh, weak people die. Society need not suffer by government force because of every new pathogen that spreads. Humanity got to where it is by braving its environment not by locking itself away. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[Dashinka 24,741]

Just now, yuna628 said:

It's still a choice. Stress is the excuse for the choice to try and explain an illogical action, a way to make one feel better about the action. Perhaps psychological help should have been sought. If one's existence was that fragile to begin with, a variety of reasons would have been utilized eventually. Suicide and substance abuse are selfish choices that people make every day, strangely, people weren't suddenly concerned about these actions pre pandemic. I mean some were for decades, and try to help, but suddenly a pandemic happens and now there's real concern about this 'sudden' pressing issue. It may be better if people could focus on enjoying being alive and safe with their families in their homes, be actually grateful for a change - but a selfish species rarely will be for long. That may sound harsh, but life is pretty harsh. Pandemics have consequences, far reaching ones. History tells us this.. but we never learn from things.

Some folks were working and providing for their families pre-pandemic.  You are right, life is harsh, and it is full of risks even sitting at home.  Do we need the government to make the arbitrary decisions for those risks?  If so, why would we ever go back to what was considered normal.  Additionally, there is no evidence doing the extreme measures is actually doing anything with respect to reducing deaths.  I always hear people comparing Sweden to the other Scandinavian countries, but a better comparison is Sweden to Michigan, similar populations, similar population densities, similar weather, yet Sweden stayed open and has a 1000 less deaths than Michigan.

[yuna628 9,700]

Just now, Dashinka said:

Some folks were working and providing for their families pre-pandemic.  You are right, life is harsh, and it is full of risks even sitting at home.  Do we need the government to make the arbitrary decisions for those risks?  If so, why would we ever go back to what was considered normal.  Additionally, there is no evidence doing the extreme measures is actually doing anything with respect to reducing deaths.  I always hear people comparing Sweden to the other Scandinavian countries, but a better comparison is Sweden to Michigan, similar populations, similar population densities, similar weather, yet Sweden stayed open and has a 1000 less deaths than Michigan.

The state has broad powers to make decisions for the good and protection of it's populace. Again if the populace doesn't like that, I'd suggest trying to change state constitutions, but good luck with that. Why would we ever go back to 'normal'? We may not for a very long time. And that's precisely what happens in pandemics. Life is going to change for years. You think life is going to be rosy and everyone is going to run back out and do whatever if they don't feel safe when Georgia says ''have at it and go get your massage"? What happens when infections and deaths start to rise again? ''Ooops my bad?" says the governor. Maybe he'll go back to saying he had no idea there was asymptomatic spread. The author of the article doesn't give a flying fig about the safety of people, of conditions we now find ourselves in, and the stress we are ALL enduring. Some of us have lost jobs, taken pay cuts, some have lost business and some have adapted their business and are finding new ways to keep going - and strangely haven't made the choice to make the value of their lives irrelevant. What the author cares about through their writing is classism, something they will claim to hate but will fall prey to it all the same, by thumbing their nose at people that are still busting their butts to keep working and acting like those that are don't care about those that aren't. And it's a false assumptive attitude with a whiff of spite to boot. Don't like something your government does, try changing it.

[Dashinka 24,741]

33 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

The state has broad powers to make decisions for the good and protection of it's populace. Again if the populace doesn't like that, I'd suggest trying to change state constitutions, but good luck with that. Why would we ever go back to 'normal'? We may not for a very long time. And that's precisely what happens in pandemics. Life is going to change for years. You think life is going to be rosy and everyone is going to run back out and do whatever if they don't feel safe when Georgia says ''have at it and go get your massage"? What happens when infections and deaths start to rise again? ''Ooops my bad?" says the governor. Maybe he'll go back to saying he had no idea there was asymptomatic spread. The author of the article doesn't give a flying fig about the safety of people, of conditions we now find ourselves in, and the stress we are ALL enduring. Some of us have lost jobs, taken pay cuts, some have lost business and some have adapted their business and are finding new ways to keep going - and strangely haven't made the choice to make the value of their lives irrelevant. What the author cares about through their writing is classism, something they will claim to hate but will fall prey to it all the same, by thumbing their nose at people that are still busting their butts to keep working and acting like those that are don't care about those that aren't. And it's a false assumptive attitude with a whiff of spite to boot. Don't like something your government does, try changing it.

Or is it they don’t feel safe due to a media narrative.  It is clear that the political elite which is what the author is talking about does not care about the workers.  This is especially true of the Democrats that are using this as an opportunity to push their far leftist agenda which includes creating a nanny state.  I am all for making changes, that is why I rarely ever vote for an incumbent in Congress, we do not need career political elite.  Additionally, I will fully support the recall of our governor when it comes time.  I know a lot of working class people like myself that are very sympathetic to those the governors are putting out of work in many cases long term, but I am not a political elite that is able to get my hair cut for a public appearance.

 

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

6 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Or is it they don’t feel safe due to a media narrative.  It is clear that the political elite which is what the author is talking about does not care about the workers.  This is especially true of the Democrats that are using this as an opportunity to push their far leftist agenda which includes creating a nanny state.  I am all for making changes, that is why I rarely ever vote for an incumbent in Congress, we do not need career political elite.  Additionally, I will fully support the recall of our governor when it comes time.  I know a lot of working class people like myself that are very sympathetic to those the governors are putting out of work in many cases long term, but I am not a political elite that is able to get my hair cut for a public appearance.

 

Doubtful it'll happen but crossing my fingers MI kicks Whitmer out.

[yuna628 9,700]

5 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Or is it they don’t feel safe due to a media narrative.  It is clear that the political elite which is what the author is talking about does not care about the workers.  This is especially true of the Democrats that are using this as an opportunity to push their far leftist agenda which includes creating a nanny state.  I am all for making changes, that is why I rarely ever vote for an incumbent in Congress, we do not need career political elite.  Additionally, I will fully support the recall of our governor when it comes time.  I know a lot of working class people like myself that are very sympathetic to those the governors are putting out of work in many cases long term, but I am not a political elite that is able to get my hair cut for a public appearance.

 

COVID19 is easily spread, quite deadly if it decides to try and kill you, quite horrible if it decides to not try and kill you, and has found various ways of being good at what it does. As an immuno-compromised person, and being close to people within the medical profession, and caring for high risk individuals, I certainly do not feel safe returning 'to normal' and that has nothing to do with the media. And FWIW, it doesn't look like most Americans when polled want to 'go back to normal' just yet. To assume that we are all sheep and are fed by a media narrative that tells us how to think and feel is rather assumptive isn't it? What media narrative do you follow, if that is the case? What media narrative does the author follow? What media narrative do the angry protesters with their faces smashed up against glass follow and will they be appreciative of the health professionals that try to save their lives if they should catch something in their irresponsibility? What narrative to the tin-foil hats among the protesters follow? Because I have quite a few friends in MI, and they run the gamut of being sick of everything but acknowledging that's the way it is, understanding of everything, or pure tin-foil hattery. Frankly the first two groups are rather sick of the nutjobs trying to insert themselves into the protest process.

[Dashinka 24,741]

29 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

COVID19 is easily spread, quite deadly if it decides to try and kill you, quite horrible if it decides to not try and kill you, and has found various ways of being good at what it does. As an immuno-compromised person, and being close to people within the medical profession, and caring for high risk individuals, I certainly do not feel safe returning 'to normal' and that has nothing to do with the media. And FWIW, it doesn't look like most Americans when polled want to 'go back to normal' just yet. To assume that we are all sheep and are fed by a media narrative that tells us how to think and feel is rather assumptive isn't it? What media narrative do you follow, if that is the case? What media narrative does the author follow? What media narrative do the angry protesters with their faces smashed up against glass follow and will they be appreciative of the health professionals that try to save their lives if they should catch something in their irresponsibility? What narrative to the tin-foil hats among the protesters follow? Because I have quite a few friends in MI, and they run the gamut of being sick of everything but acknowledging that's the way it is, understanding of everything, or pure tin-foil hattery. Frankly the first two groups are rather sick of the nutjobs trying to insert themselves into the protest process.

You forgot to add, also present in a lot of people with no ill effects.  It is interesting we have a virus with a mortality rate near flu numbers even without a vaccine.  I will definitely be heading back to Korea some time this year and Russia as well once Russia opens back up. There is a lot to learn about this virus, and anyone claiming that these stay at home orders are doing anything more than taking stress off the healthcare system does not have the data to back it up.  I will reference my earlier comparison of Sweden to Michigan.