Protests show 'two Americas' — those who lost their jobs and those still getting paid

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 hours ago, Dashinka said:

Georgia is easing restrictions allowing the businesses to make the decisions themselves.  There are quite a few studies of increased suicide rates, and increased substance abuse due to extreme economic stress, there has to be a balance.

 

   I was listening to a guy on the radio today complaining that his business couldn't get a $2000 fee back from a Cinco de Mayo event that was cancelled. He was disputing the charge and said he might have to declare bankruptcy if he didn't get it back. Probably some exaggeration there, but it's similar to the divorce thread. If $2000 is going to push your business off a cliff, you probably had significant problems before all this started.

 

  I have sympathy for anyone who is affected by this. Everyone has been on some level. It has highlighted some societal issues that we have neglected, and that we probably need to keep up with when this is all over. Mental health problems, dysfunctional health care, substance abuse, domestic violence, labor and employment issues, wage stagnation and lack of any real security net for emergencies are not new issues. They have existed for a long time. They have all been exacerbated by the current crisis, but they will all still be there when the pandemic ends too. 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

3 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Need to see how fast the goverment employees would squeal if their pay were interrupted.

Well tbh with you as a Federal government employee that is one of two people in our division not working from home I would hate to be furloughed right now. I have been furloughed 3 times in 7 years working for the government and it ain't fun. 

 

Yes, going into the office is my choice but I kinda need to because I work on classified networks. 

[Ban Hammer 13,491]

well blah, i guess i need to read more vj and less fb to cut down on the dupe threads  

[yuna628 9,700]

2 hours ago, Dashinka said:

You forgot to add, also present in a lot of people with no ill effects.  It is interesting we have a virus with a mortality rate near flu numbers even without a vaccine.  I will definitely be heading back to Korea some time this year and Russia as well once Russia opens back up. There is a lot to learn about this virus, and anyone claiming that these stay at home orders are doing anything more than taking stress off the healthcare system does not have the data to back it up.  I will reference my earlier comparison of Sweden to Michigan.

Yes no ill effects.. what roll of the dice and flip of a coin would you like to take a chance on how it will effect you and those you love? It seems most Americans are not ready to take that chance without more confidence. You might be the type of person that enjoys speeding without a seat belt. The rest of us even though we are also suffering in our own ways with hardships like staying alive.

[yuna628 9,700]

2 hours ago, Cyberfx1024 said:

Well tbh with you as a Federal government employee that is one of two people in our division not working from home I would hate to be furloughed right now. I have been furloughed 3 times in 7 years working for the government and it ain't fun. 

 

Yes, going into the office is my choice but I kinda need to because I work on classified networks. 

It's something I don't get. Why are government employees regarded with such scorn? It's a job. Hopefully you like the job you chose to do and it pays the bills and helps you get by comfortably. And hopefully just like everyone else you won't get furloughed or laid off. Just like anyone else's job. Is this like a classist envy thing?

 

My husband is working from home right now but that hasn't made the job easier, it's made it harder. Try managing slacker employees that just want to not work all day from home and collect pay. Or having your entire budget for the next year slashed in half but still having to imagine providing the same level of service and equipment to staff and students when we have no idea if they will even be in a classroom. He's still appreciative that he has that job security that isn't going to furlough him yet. If he was it certainly wouldn't be fun. What do people think those still working (including fed and state employees) are all laughing at those laid off? Give me a break.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

It's something I don't get. Why are government employees regarded with such scorn? It's a job. Hopefully you like the job you chose to do and it pays the bills and helps you get by comfortably. And hopefully just like everyone else you won't get furloughed or laid off. Just like anyone else's job. Is this like a classist envy thing?

 

My husband is working from home right now but that hasn't made the job easier, it's made it harder. Try managing slacker employees that just want to not work all day from home and collect pay. Or having your entire budget for the next year slashed in half but still having to imagine providing the same level of service and equipment to staff and students when we have no idea if they will even be in a classroom. He's still appreciative that he has that job security that isn't going to furlough him yet. If he was it certainly wouldn't be fun. What do people think those still working (including fed and state employees) are all laughing at those laid off? Give me a break.

Because it is percieved that we don't get alot of work done. Which it is true can be said for many people working for the USG, that is NOT the case for my Division or Branch. Which in the IT field like I am in we actually get paid less than the going rate out in the private sector for the RDU area. 

 

 

We have all decided that we are all getting more work done now than we were when everybody is in the office. We aren't going from office to office to mingle, chat, or talk politics. We are all being micromanaged from above us with reports after reports after reports. We keep getting our personnel budget slashed so we are all pretty much stuck where we are with no advancement opportunities anytime soon, and no way to get any new personnel. All the while we are increasing out IT footprint with lack of resources and personnel. We are all happy that we are still working and getting paid tbh with you.

[Dashinka 24,740]

10 hours ago, Cyberfx1024 said:

Well tbh with you as a Federal government employee that is one of two people in our division not working from home I would hate to be furloughed right now. I have been furloughed 3 times in 7 years working for the government and it ain't fun. 

 

Yes, going into the office is my choice but I kinda need to because I work on classified networks. 

MI is laying off some of their government employees.  I also hear the Senate is not in favor of bailing out states due to their lost revenues.

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/04/22/michigan-begins-temporary-layoffs-whitmer-nessel-covid-19-pandemic/3002888001/

 

 

[Dashinka 24,740]

8 hours ago, yuna628 said:

Yes no ill effects.. what roll of the dice and flip of a coin would you like to take a chance on how it will effect you and those you love? It seems most Americans are not ready to take that chance without more confidence. You might be the type of person that enjoys speeding without a seat belt. The rest of us even though we are also suffering in our own ways with hardships like staying alive.

Then that is your personal choice, and you can live in a bubble if you desire.  Life is risky, people can make informed decisions and take necessary precautions like wearing a seatbelt, or washing their hands.  People can also take precautions to reduce the potential on others like wearing a mask to reduce spreading.  It seems you are more in favor of a nanny state approach, I favor personal responsibility and less government.  The simple point is there is no way anyone can predict what will happen tomorrow or what the impacts will be if and when things reopen, and no way to determine what impacts any strategy had on this whole thing.  A governor can claim they are saving lives by what they are doing, but show me the data that proves this.  In the end, people will suffer from the disease, and people will suffer from the cure, a balance is needed, and right now the pendulum is swung to one side.

[Dashinka 24,740]

7 hours ago, Cyberfx1024 said:

Because it is percieved that we don't get alot of work done. Which it is true can be said for many people working for the USG, that is NOT the case for my Division or Branch. Which in the IT field like I am in we actually get paid less than the going rate out in the private sector for the RDU area. 

 

 

We have all decided that we are all getting more work done now than we were when everybody is in the office. We aren't going from office to office to mingle, chat, or talk politics. We are all being micromanaged from above us with reports after reports after reports. We keep getting our personnel budget slashed so we are all pretty much stuck where we are with no advancement opportunities anytime soon, and no way to get any new personnel. All the while we are increasing out IT footprint with lack of resources and personnel. We are all happy that we are still working and getting paid tbh with you.

I agree, working from home is much more productive, hours may be longer, but more work is getting done.  I also like the flexibility, if I have a free hour, I can take the dog out for a walk/run before I get back to my next task or meeting.  Of course YMMV, and there will always be folks that take advantage of this type of situation, but I like to think those people are smaller in numbers.

[OriZ 3,157]

On 4/22/2020 at 3:11 PM, Dashinka said:

Some folks were working and providing for their families pre-pandemic.  You are right, life is harsh, and it is full of risks even sitting at home.  Do we need the government to make the arbitrary decisions for those risks?  If so, why would we ever go back to what was considered normal.  Additionally, there is no evidence doing the extreme measures is actually doing anything with respect to reducing deaths.  I always hear people comparing Sweden to the other Scandinavian countries, but a better comparison is Sweden to Michigan, similar populations, similar population densities, similar weather, yet Sweden stayed open and has a 1000 less deaths than Michigan.

No, it's not a better comparison, because the culture is very different. Swedes(and most Scandinavians for that matter) listen much better without the need to force it down their throat, Americans don't, it's as simple as that.

 

Also, we have plenty of evidence it has reduced deaths. Plenty.

Edited April 24, 2020 by OriZ

[OriZ 3,157]

On 4/22/2020 at 4:30 PM, yuna628 said:

COVID19 is easily spread, quite deadly if it decides to try and kill you, quite horrible if it decides to not try and kill you, and has found various ways of being good at what it does. As an immuno-compromised person, and being close to people within the medical profession, and caring for high risk individuals, I certainly do not feel safe returning 'to normal' and that has nothing to do with the media. And FWIW, it doesn't look like most Americans when polled want to 'go back to normal' just yet. To assume that we are all sheep and are fed by a media narrative that tells us how to think and feel is rather assumptive isn't it? What media narrative do you follow, if that is the case? What media narrative does the author follow? What media narrative do the angry protesters with their faces smashed up against glass follow and will they be appreciative of the health professionals that try to save their lives if they should catch something in their irresponsibility? What narrative to the tin-foil hats among the protesters follow? Because I have quite a few friends in MI, and they run the gamut of being sick of everything but acknowledging that's the way it is, understanding of everything, or pure tin-foil hattery. Frankly the first two groups are rather sick of the nutjobs trying to insert themselves into the protest process.

Protesting is fine, even now, provided that people keep adhering to social distancing principles and the law.

 

Protestors who don't, however, like the ones in WI who thought it was a good idea to hug each other, should be placed in a mandatory 14 day quarantine(a cell would work just fine), fined, and, if as a consequence of their actions more people get sick, get charged with criminal negligence. If someone dies, then I'm good with manslaughter. People need to realize this isn't a game. Those people are the ones who will leave everybody in their houses longer, not shorter.

Edited April 24, 2020 by OriZ

[TBoneTX 45,961]

There's a little thang called the Constitution and Due Process.

[OriZ 3,157]

14 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

There's a little thang called the Constitution and Due Process.

Throwing the constitution around anytime someone blatantly breaks the law and endangers lives of others just doesn't fly with me, sorry. There's a little thing called law and it needs to be followed. Nothing you can point to in the constitution will convince me there's any merit to condone any behavior that is dangerous to others. This is no different from the BLM whack mobs that you all had an issue with them burning down stores and rioting in the streets. And so did I, except that I don't tend to apply double standards based on the side I "agree" with, or "belong" to(which is really neither), laws should apply to everyone equally.

Edited April 24, 2020 by OriZ

[TBoneTX 45,961]

It's very different.  Read just the First Amendment and justify which of the guaranteed rights aren't being violated.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

"Throwing the constitution around anytime someone blatantly breaks the law"

 

Was this intended humor? The Constitution not only is law, it is THE law. Not only that, but the Constitution is not what grants rights, it (in the Bill of Rights) is merely a contractual obligation codifying rights we already have by explicitly stating the government's limits, as in what level of government intrusion we're willing to accept. We do not need government permission to exist or have freedoms. So the idea that government can just create and erase them all at will effectively deifies government. If you want to worship government, fine by me, but that's incompatible with the United States and the reason it was founded. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds