DOJ: 'Expect action' on government regulation of religious services amid COVID-19 outbreak

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

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The Justice Department (DOJ) may take action next week against local governments that have cracked down on religious services as widespread parts of the country are shut down due to the coronavirus pandemic, a DOJ spokesperson said Saturday.

“While social distancing policies are appropriate during this emergency, they must be applied evenhandedly [and] not single out religious [organizations],” DOJ Director of Communications Kerri Kupec tweeted.

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The DOJ move would come as some churches are standing up to city governments that have blocked them from holding in-person services during the outbreak -- even in "drive-in" formats that keep people separated and in their own cars.

A judge in Louisville, Ky., on Saturday issued a temporary restraining order blocking enforcement of Mayor Greg Fischer’s ban on drive-in church services there.

“The Mayor’s decision is stunning,” District Judge Justin Walker, a former clerk to Supreme Court Associate Justice Brett Kavanaugh, wrote in a memorandum to the order. “And it is, ‘beyond all reason,’ unconstitutional.”

 

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Attorneys with the Alliance Defending Freedom have filed a lawsuit challenging that order on behalf of the Temple Baptist Church in Greenville.

Kelly Shackelford, president of the First Liberty Institute, argued in an appearance on “Tucker Carlson Tonight” on Friday that the city’s order “is just massively unconstitutional.”

“It targets churches in a way that it targets no other group,” he said. “Cars in parking lots are fine. It’s only a crime if the cars in the parking lot are at the church parking lot.”

https://www.foxnews.com/us/doj-expect-action-government-regulation-religious-covid-19

 

Emphasis on bold. 

 

If you see this happening, and similar targeting of churches in your local area, it's certainly advised to get in touch with lawyers, wonder if the DOJ has set up a hotline. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[Dashinka 24,743]

They need to look into this.  What is the difference between cars in a church parking lot vs cars in the parking lot of a Lowes, or local grocery store.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

4 hours ago, Dashinka said:

They need to look into this.  What is the difference between cars in a church parking lot vs cars in the parking lot of a Lowes, or local grocery store.

 

   In my state, we are allowed to go to grocery stores, but church services have been cancelled, so that's one difference.

 

  I agree though, taking license plates is dumb. Just let people know LE will enforce any broken laws at the time they occur, including whatever the penalty is for breaking social distancing rules. You can apply that equally as the DOJ says.  

[Dashinka 24,743]

31 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   In my state, we are allowed to go to grocery stores, but church services have been cancelled, so that's one difference.

 

  I agree though, taking license plates is dumb. Just let people know LE will enforce any broken laws at the time they occur, including whatever the penalty is for breaking social distancing rules. You can apply that equally as the DOJ says.  

Then why is LE not inside grocery stores or other open businesses enforcing social distancing laws?  As to church services, yes, in person in building services should be closed at the moment, but even where they are allowing drive up services, they are saying cars should be spaced every other space.  Do the grocery stores have the same restrictions?

[Steeleballz 7,550]

3 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Then why is LE not inside grocery stores or other open businesses enforcing social distancing laws?  As to church services, yes, in person in building services should be closed at the moment, but even where they are allowing drive up services, they are saying cars should be spaced every other space.  Do the grocery stores have the same restrictions?

 

   I haven't been in grocery stores. I have heard some are enforcing social distancing and limiting number of customers. Grocery stores are considered essential so people are allowed to be there. I assume the store itself would have to call law enforcement if people were violating law. I'm not sure if police are routinely patrolling. The Walmart where I do pickup is right across the street from a police station, so that particular store tends not to have many issues with compliance to begin with.

[NikLR 13,232]

8 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Then why is LE not inside grocery stores or other open businesses enforcing social distancing laws?  As to church services, yes, in person in building services should be closed at the moment, but even where they are allowing drive up services, they are saying cars should be spaced every other space.  Do the grocery stores have the same restrictions?

Grocery stores in my area have one way aisles, constant announcements about social distancing and limit the number of people allowed in a store. I had to wait in line to get into the grocery store yesterday.  There are security in and outside of the store enforcing the rules. 

I always try to space one away from other anyhow when parking, because people are jerks and my car is newer, but im not afraid of a walk into the store either.  

Edited April 12, 2020 by NikLR

[NikLR 13,232]

Imho church services "could" be held online (zoom? Google meeting?) Or if they practiced social distancing like waiting in lines 6 ft apart to get in and sitting 6 feet apart.  Who is disinfecting the pews and books? Thats pretty important.  Is it every person 6ft away or just family groups. And i mean 6 ft in every direction.  Thats a really empty church. 

We have local churches doing online sermons for people this weekend. 

[millefleur 5,047]

2 minutes ago, NikLR said:

Grocery stores in my area have one way aisles, constant announcements about social distancing and limit the number of people allowed in a store. I had to wait in line to get into the grocery store yesterday.  There are security in and outside of the store enforcing the rules. 

I always try to space one away from other anyhow when parking, because people are jerks and my car is newer, but im not afraid of a walk into the store either.  

Wow, Colorado sounds like they're really, really cracking down on people. I haven't seen anything like this at all in Oregon. Here, a lot of stores just let people come and go like before, with or without masks, as if nothing has happened. The only "strict" enforcement I've seen here is just letting a limited number of people in the store at a time. The Fred Meyer here (which is basically a Kroger) literally has no enforcement at all, you can just walk in and out like normal, nobody cares. And that's one of the most popular stores here. I think our state is just really bad at enforcing anything. People are all about being laid back and smiley and "chill" here.

 

Restaurants have closed and other places that were told to do so by the govenor, but as for the places that remain open, enforcement is practically non-existent here. Funny how this can vary so much from state to state.

 

[NikLR 13,232]

We are suggested to use masks but its not required. Im not sure how the rest of Colorado is doing besides my area.  Even then I stick to a few stores I know. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by NikLR

[Steeleballz 7,550]

10 minutes ago, NikLR said:

Imho church services "could" be held online (zoom? Google meeting?) Or if they practiced social distancing like waiting in lines 6 ft apart to get in and sitting 6 feet apart.  Who is disinfecting the pews and books? Thats pretty important.  Is it every person 6ft away or just family groups. And i mean 6 ft in every direction.  Thats a really empty church. 

We have local churches doing online sermons for people this weekend. 

 

  I wonder if any of the desire to have in person services is due to the ability to collect monetary donations. 

[millefleur 5,047]

Just now, Steeleballz said:

 

  I wonder if any of the desire to have in person services is due to the ability to collect monetary donations. 

This. And if they try to collect donations online, I would assume whatever 3rd party platform is making that possible would ding them with a fee. Not as good as that cold hard cash in the donation bin. Some church member software/web guy should set something up for them so they can avoid the fees usually collected by online money transfer services.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

15 minutes ago, NikLR said:

Imho church services "could" be held online (zoom? Google meeting?) Or if they practiced social distancing like waiting in lines 6 ft apart to get in and sitting 6 feet apart.  Who is disinfecting the pews and books? Thats pretty important.  Is it every person 6ft away or just family groups. And i mean 6 ft in every direction.  Thats a really empty church. 

We have local churches doing online sermons for people this weekend. 

I think this should be emphasized, some friends I know have been doing this. Though, I wouldn't recommend Zoom. Buddy of mine was helping some churches with their IT setup, normally works for the school districts in the Sacramento area. And like me, he's not religious. 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

5 minutes ago, millefleur said:

This. And if they try to collect donations online, I would assume whatever 3rd party platform is making that possible would ding them with a fee. Not as good as that cold hard cash in the donation bin. Some church member software/web guy should set something up for them so they can avoid the fees usually collected by online money transfer services.

 

   To some extent, it might depend on if the church already had online access and donations set up already or not. I know some who already had online services set up prior to this. Those that didn't may be less inclined to do so.

[Dashinka 24,743]

16 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  I wonder if any of the desire to have in person services is due to the ability to collect monetary donations. 

You just described why the lottery is still deemed essential.

[OriZ 3,157]

9 hours ago, millefleur said:

Wow, Colorado sounds like they're really, really cracking down on people. I haven't seen anything like this at all in Oregon. Here, a lot of stores just let people come and go like before, with or without masks, as if nothing has happened. The only "strict" enforcement I've seen here is just letting a limited number of people in the store at a time. The Fred Meyer here (which is basically a Kroger) literally has no enforcement at all, you can just walk in and out like normal, nobody cares. And that's one of the most popular stores here. I think our state is just really bad at enforcing anything. People are all about being laid back and smiley and "chill" here.

 

Restaurants have closed and other places that were told to do so by the govenor, but as for the places that remain open, enforcement is practically non-existent here. Funny how this can vary so much from state to state.

 

It's essentially the same here. we do have a stay at home order - but enforcement of such things in vt is always very lax. no one's going to ask you where you're going. traffic on most roads here is hardly down, most businesses are closed but you see plenty of people walking the paths, in parks and riding their bicycles everywhere. where all the other cars I keep seeing on the road are going I'm truly not sure because I know they're not working