Indiana Governor To Churches: Worship As I Say Or Be Shut Down

[NikLR 13,228]

7 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

You have said this before.  But I counter with... if pregnancy is such a dangerous prospect, then why do millions of women get pregnant every year?  Why, if you look at the animal kingdom as a whole, are there BILLIONS of births every year, year after year?  Sure, it has risks, but it's only in the last year or two I have heard people such as you trying to convince me that pregnancy is such a deadly game.

I know if I were a woman, and I thought pregnancy was so dangerous/deadly, I would make damn sure my pleasurable activities included measures to prevent that pregnancy  from happening.  As in BEFORE it happened.  So many choices out there.

You can get pregnant on the pill.  You can get pregnant on using condoms.  You can get pregnant using both. You can avoid all sex and be raped. 

Pregnancy for me was 8 months of vomiting mutliple times a day including blood at the end, pre-eclampsia, and almost dying from hemorrhaging during my c-section I didnt know I needed to have.  An infection after the birth making even sitting up very painful. Post partum depression. Anxiety.  There was no way for me to know ANY of that would happen without experiencing it. So I have ONE child.  But a wonderful beautiful amazing child. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

5 minutes ago, NikLR said:

You can get pregnant on the pill.  You can get pregnant on using condoms.  You can get pregnant using both. You can avoid all sex and be raped. 

Pregnancy for me was 8 months of vomiting mutliple times a day including blood at the end, pre-eclampsia, and almost dying from hemorrhaging during my c-section I didnt know I needed to have.  An infection after the birth making even sitting up very painful. Post partum depression. Anxiety.  There was no way for me to know ANY of that would happen without experiencing it. So I have ONE child.  But a wonderful beautiful amazing child. 

Sorry to hear that, I really am.  But still, yours is the NOT the normal case.  Not trying to minimize your suffering and near-death experience in any way. 

But approximately 353,000 babies were born today. And will be tomorrow, as well.  

 

 

To try and advocate for abortion because it is safer than childbirth is akin to trying to put out a fire using gasoline, IMO.  There ARE good reasons to have abortions, and if a doctor says NOW is the time, then so be it.  But generally, they can wait a week or three, I'd reckon.  (And I STILL disagree about using abortion to fix a one night stand mistake or other "oopsie", but that is just my opinion)

Edited April 13, 2020 by Voice of Reason

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

8 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

The shelter in place order here in Ga is kind of a joke. Other than dining in at restaurants,  bars and barbers,  I have seen anything shut down.

 

The wife wanted to go to Michaels to get spme mask material.  Yup it was .Social distancing but open.

 

Not sure how a craft store essential 

Wife has the thickest skin of anyone I know, but this is the kind of thing I'd say if I wanted male genitalia sharpie'd on my face overnight. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[NikLR 13,228]

Just now, Voice of Reason said:

Sorry to hear that, I really am.  But still, yours is the NOT the normal case.  Not trying to minimize your suffering and near-death experience in any way. 

But approximately 353,000 babies were born today.  To try and advocate for abortion because it is safer than childbirth is akin to trying to put out a fire using gasoline, IMO.  There ARE good reasons to have abortions, and if a doctor says NOW is the time, then so be it.  But generally, they can wait a week or three, I'd reckon.  (And I STILL disagree about using abortion to fix a one night stand mistake or other "oopsie", but that is just my opinion)

I agree that there are alternatives.  You should try to avoid pregnancy, planned parenthood helps people with birth control, and there is plan B too. I advocate for choice though.  I feel a woman should be allowed to choose what happens with her body.  Just as a child should be allowed to choose to hug Grandma and Grandpa. Autonomy over our bodies is important.  There is a level where it needs to be a medical need though and i personally dont believe in 2nd or 3rd trimester term abortions unless medical need. 

 

I am also saying that it's more normal than YOU think to have complications during pregnancy and birth. None of my cousins are natural birth, every one of them is a c-section. There are 12 with 4 women.  My sister had c-sections with her two. My BIL's wife had 2 preemies and one passed away 4 days late but 2 healthy children as well. It's just really common to have issues. More than people often say.  My sister doesnt run around telling people about hers... im just stupid open about it. Is what it is. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

13 minutes ago, NikLR said:

I agree that there are alternatives.  You should try to avoid pregnancy, planned parenthood helps people with birth control, and there is plan B too. I advocate for choice though.  I feel a woman should be allowed to choose what happens with her body.  Just as a child should be allowed to choose to hug Grandma and Grandpa. Autonomy over our bodies is important.  There is a level where it needs to be a medical need though and i personally dont believe in 2nd or 3rd trimester term abortions unless medical need. 

 

I am also saying that it's more normal than YOU think to have complications during pregnancy and birth. None of my cousins are natural birth, every one of them is a c-section. There are 12 with 4 women.  My sister had c-sections with her two. My BIL's wife had 2 preemies and one passed away 4 days late but 2 healthy children as well. It's just really common to have issues. More than people often say.  My sister doesnt run around telling people about hers... im just stupid open about it. Is what it is. 

But aren't C-sections pretty normal nowadays?  In my personal, 2 out of 3 births were C-sections.  I think you and I agree pretty closely on abortions based on your timelines above, but it saddens me to think about how many Einsteins or MLKs or Ghandis we are missing out on because a woman doesn't want a baby.  Guess we will never know.  And I also realize that aborting is far better than bringing an unwanted child into the world in the long run.  Believe it or not, I advocate on BOTH sides of the issue, depending on whom I am conversing with.  My religious friends get really mad at me when I point out the pros of abortion.  I try to see it all, but in NO case can I agree with abortion as a form of birth control.  THAT happens before intercourse, if one only puts even a modicum of effort into it.  

 

To counter what you said above, condoms are 98% effective in preventing pregnancy when used properly.  Even when used less than perfectly, they are 85% effective.  I'm not big on the pill, personally, but know women who like that.  My wife is against taking unnecessary meds, and I support that.  She also won't get an abortion if she DOES get pregnant, so there is potentially a divorce in my future.  Hopefully I am able to remain in the 98%, not the 85%.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

I think more than anything else the culture of responsibility needs to be emphasized. For example, when people in California get upset that abortion isn't promoted for every pregnancy, they need to be told to get over it. It's not something to promote.

 

I believe a woman should be able to end her own pregnancy whenever she likes, but limitations on who can perform them need to be made to certain doctors, and those doctors must prove they attempted to save the baby's life regardless of gestational age and the statistical "chances" of survival (that change over time). I'd also leave it up to the states on how they decide the actions of the mother, doctor, etc. and how it relates to the death of the child, say, negligence, murder, and so on, particularly because of how many abortions are elective, and thus, the intent is for the baby to die in the first place. Freedom to end one's pregnancy doesn't absolve one the responsibility over the life they created, so as much as possible should be done to separate medically necessary abortion from elective. Also, absolutely no public funds should go toward abortion. If it's your body, your choice, then leave others and their taxes out of it. Clearly someone who, say, had an ectopic pregnancy and had no choice but to end the pregnancy, clearly nothing would happen, and it shouldn't, because pregnancy shouldn't be a death sentence for the mother either, or in this case, a death sentence for both. I find that both sides, the media, and politicians alike, tend to twist the debate into a way that frames this area as having no middle ground when substantial amounts exist. No one benefits, there's never any progress on it (one side is always overwhelmingly catered to on the issue because of one lobby, while the other is shafted, and in the end, everyone loses), and it naturally keeps it a wedge issue to market and polarize the country.

 

I also think one of the biggest misconceptions is that those of us who are pro-choice are anti-life. It was one of the oddest things that a Christian SDA ex of mine who sat there harping on and on about being by the book had TWO abortions, and I didn't find out until she aborted one of ours. I made sure with my wife that I married someone who wasn't into killing their own offspring and that sort of responsibility evading sociopathy. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

[Steeleballz 7,550]

8 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

 

   This guy was out there alone because everyone else listened and came in when ordered to do so.

 

    Beaches are closed and the state is under a stay at home order. Everyone who is out spreading this virus around is dragging this whole ordeal out for the rest of us. Everyone who is staying at home and doing their part is stuck at home longer because of people who wont stay home. Everyone who is unemployed will be unemployed longer. 

 

  You seem espouse the positions of wanting social distancing to end quickly, yet you support all these people who won't stay home. Do you not understand the contradiction? 

 

 

[Dashinka 24,628]

7 hours ago, OriZ said:

I hear it's the same in Wisconsin. You great lake folks aren't playing.

Yeah, it could be that, or we could each have a couple of nanny state governors that think people cannot follow recommendations, and want to exert more government intrusion into our day-to-day lives.

 

[Dashinka 24,628]

4 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   This guy was out there alone because everyone else listened and came in when ordered to do so.

 

    Beaches are closed and the state is under a stay at home order. Everyone who is out spreading this virus around is dragging this whole ordeal out for the rest of us. Everyone who is staying at home and doing their part is stuck at home longer because of people who wont stay home. Everyone who is unemployed will be unemployed longer. 

 

  You seem espouse the positions of wanting social distancing to end quickly, yet you support all these people who won't stay home. Do you not understand the contradiction? 

 

 

I don’t advocate ending physical distancing, that should be practiced all the time, but these SIP laws are not the same thing.  It is beginning to look more and more like marshal law.  Now if the governors keep their states closed long enough to completely decimate businesses and create a big criminal issue, they will say we need to keep all these restrictions in place to fight crime.  Based on what I have heard, these SIP laws were put in place to reduce the stress on the healthcare system which it seems to have done, but now we have government by model (saw an interview with the DC mayor where she said her city would not peak until June, but the UW model shows they are past their peak, and the numbers seem to favor the UW model, so what model is she using) where the government is not being forthcoming about the models they are using, and no end in sight.  I know I will remember this when it comes time to vote with respect to my governor.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Dashinka

[NikLR 13,228]

As far as I understand, last time the US had a quarantine, we had two peaks in many states because limits were let up too early. They're trying to prevent that even though people have cabin fever. 

Considering that everytime I leave the house I am potentially asymptomatic and spreading virus everywhere, I am trying my butt off to stay home. I think we should be allowed to go on drives.  We should be smart and cleaning the pumps and pay at the pump.  I miss full service stations sometimes to be honest. They were great when my child was a baby.  

I watch people with gloves on touching everything in their pockets, etc... they have no idea about cross contamination. Why even bother?

[Boiler 45,717]

1 minute ago, NikLR said:

I watch people with gloves on touching everything in their pockets, etc... they have no idea about cross contamination. Why even bother?

This, I went into the local liquor store yesterday, now of all the places they had the most signs up, only 2 people at a time you had to wear a mask etc, nothing about gloves? Anyway choosing wine people moving bottles opening refrigerated doors, the guy on the till was clearly finding his mask uncomfortable and was adjusting it.

[NikLR 13,228]

3 minutes ago, Boiler said:

This, I went into the local liquor store yesterday, now of all the places they had the most signs up, only 2 people at a time you had to wear a mask etc, nothing about gloves? Anyway choosing wine people moving bottles opening refrigerated doors, the guy on the till was clearly finding his mask uncomfortable and was adjusting it.

You dont have to wear gloves but people in the grocery store do. And then touch all their personal items with dirty gloves. And then leave them in the parking lot. 

I made a face mask but only wear it for my weekly extended grocery trip. But i get why people touch them all the time.  Its not really comfortable. I feel terrible for nurses!

Edited April 13, 2020 by NikLR

[Dashinka 24,628]

4 minutes ago, NikLR said:

As far as I understand, last time the US had a quarantine, we had two peaks in many states because limits were let up too early. They're trying to prevent that even though people have cabin fever. 

Considering that everytime I leave the house I am potentially asymptomatic and spreading virus everywhere, I am trying my butt off to stay home. I think we should be allowed to go on drives.  We should be smart and cleaning the pumps and pay at the pump.  I miss full service stations sometimes to be honest. They were great when my child was a baby.  

I watch people with gloves on touching everything in their pockets, etc... they have no idea about cross contamination. Why even bother?

Quarantine is used to isolate sick people.  I cannot remember the last time the most of the  US was under a stay at home order.  I think it used to be common to quarantine families, etc, for things like the mumps, measles, etc., but not state or country wide.  If this is going to become the new normal for any infectious disease that could potentially lead to someone’s death, then we need to rethink how we will live our lives and make a living.