Indiana Governor To Churches: Worship As I Say Or Be Shut Down

[Steeleballz 7,550]

21 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

Slight difference between hobby and church that's easily recognizable in the constitution. 

 

    Large gatherings are currently illegal. Are you suggesting churches do not have to comply with the law?

[Dashinka 24,628]

I loved this part of the OP article.  I wonder if that applies to the police as well?

 

• Attendees should not interact physically with clergy, staff or participants in other vehicles.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,376]

Maybe they could have church with social distancing.  Model it off the press conferences several politicians including the president ha e 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

4 hours ago, Orangesapples said:

There isn't a pandemic all the time. 

 

No need to disband churches, just have them comply with the safety measures we all need. Have them congregate online. I'm also bummed I can't go practice my hobby in person but no special exceptions for me. 

You should probably look up the definition of pandemic.  There is one every single year.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

2 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Maybe they could have church with social distancing.  Model it off the press conferences several politicians including the president ha e 

You mean the ones where the reporters are asking Trump why he's not wearing a mask, while THEY are not wearing masks as well?

[Steeleballz 7,550]

30 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

You should probably look up the definition of pandemic.  There is one every single year.

 

  Looks like you need to look up the definition of pandemic.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

19 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  Looks like you need to look up the definition of pandemic.

Well, you shamed me into it.  Let me share it here.

 

 

pan·dem·ic | \ pan-ˈde-mik  \

Definition of pandemic

 (Entry 1 of 2)

: occurring over a wide geographic area and affecting an exceptionally high proportion of the populationpandemic malariaThe 1918 flu was pandemic and claimed millions of lives.

pandemic

 noun

pan·dem·ic | \ pan-ˈde-mik  \

Definition of pandemic (Entry 2 of 2)

: an outbreak of a disease that occurs over a wide geographic area and affects an exceptionally high proportion of the population : a pandemic outbreak of a disease

 

 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

Just now, Voice of Reason said:

Well, you shamed me into it.  Let me share it here.

 

 

  You forgot to include epidemic, which would have covered seasonal flu and the common cold.

 

  Not trying to shame you, but you are telling someone else to look up the definition by falsely claiming that pandemics occur every year. They do not. They can occur over multiple years of course, such as is the case with the HIV pandemic. HIV is the only other infectious disease beside Covid-19 to be considered pandemic at this time.

[Ban Hammer 13,419]

11 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

 HIV is the only other infectious disease beside Covid-19 to be considered pandemic at this time.

what, you mean stupidity hasn't made that list yet?

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

Subjective definitions are irrelevant.

 

Despite the body's familiarity to various influenza viruses, the last 50 years has seen 5-20% of Americans per year get the flu, 3,000 - 50,000 die per year. Not so coincidentally, that number is higher for strains people's bodies aren't accustomed to fighting.

 

This virus just happens to be very similar to the flu, and a strain that seemingly no one has immunity to, so it's like as if a bunch of people traveled to a region with pathogens their bodies have never encountered. 

 

What we're encountering isn't new, not the first time, not the last. When was the last time the government (federal/states and local) shut down an economy like this though, nationwide? All we're seeing are new levels of government authority being used, new levels of attacks on rights, plenty of lives upended, and little in the way of usefulness. It's not to say all of our problems are being caused by government. People really need to help themselves by being smarter. If this was actually a catastrophic pathogen, we'd be decimated, and not merely because of government, but our own stupidity. For example, the way rapid spreading facilitated in Alberta is from idiots on cruise ships were told to self-isolate when they left the cruise ship, when they entered Canada, when they came home, on at least three occasions, they just ignored it, meandered around helping spread the virus. In the few cases where government can be useful, it will never fix stupid. People had to be forcefully quarantined instead of allowed to join the population, especially those who tested positive, but they weren't. 

 

In the US, if the government could've been useful they'd have been so months ago. But because of this nonsensical insistence on relying on government to be our magical savior, we see the one thing Democrat and Republican politicians come together on in bipartisan fashion, inflating government like never before. Maybe one of the "religion" problems lies here. 

[OriZ 3,157]

9 hours ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

We're seeing states and local jurisdictions apply very targeted enforcement toward churches. If this was simply broad enforcement targeting groups of people then it would be fine, but in many of these, they allow exceptions to these rules by, say, liquor stores, to be open for people to gather at, or for liquor related services, deeming them "essential". Yet, they clamp down specifically on churches. Not merely to prevent them from normal service (understandable), but even from drive-in service on church property where people aren't inherently being unsafe. This is a flagrant violation of the First Amendment. Targeting people instead of behaviors is not okay, emergency or not.

Why are we acting like it's just churches? They treated synagogues in NY the same way(rightfully so), and I'm sure mosques aren't exempt either. Follow the law or get shut down and called to appear in court, take your pick.

 

This isn't an anti religion thing. it's a public health matter.

Edited April 12, 2020 by OriZ

[Orangesapples 1,954]

7 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Why are we acting like it's just churches? They treated synagogues in NY the same way(rightfully so), and I'm sure mosques aren't exempt either. Follow the law or get shut down and called to appear in court, take your pick.

 

This isn't an anti religion thing. it's a public health matter.

But how will evangelicals feel persecuted then? 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

2 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  You forgot to include epidemic, which would have covered seasonal flu and the common cold.

 

  Not trying to shame you, but you are telling someone else to look up the definition by falsely claiming that pandemics occur every year. They do not. They can occur over multiple years of course, such as is the case with the HIV pandemic. HIV is the only other infectious disease beside Covid-19 to be considered pandemic at this time.

I forgot nothing, I simply quoted Merriam Webster.  Pandemic refers to the broad geographical range of a disease.

 

They also said:

Quote

What is the difference between a pandemic and an epidemic?

An epidemic is an outbreak of disease that spreads quickly and affects many individuals at the same time. A pandemic is a kind of epidemic; one which has spread across a wider geographic range than an epidemic, and which has affected a significant portion of the population. 

When does an outbreak become a pandemic?

An outbreak is “a sudden rise in the incidence of a disease” and typically is confined to a localized area or a specific group of people. Should an outbreak become more severe, and less localized, it may be characterized as an epidemic. If it broadens still further, and affects a significant portion of the population, the disease may be characterized as a pandemic. 

 

I assume you mean that the flu isn't an epidemic nor a pandemic due to the slower spread?  Because every year, it sure does affect people all over the globe, as in a broad geographical range.  

Why was the 2017-18 flu considered an epidemic, and not a pandemic, since the flu is global? (I believe around 80,000 died in the US, roughly 4 times our current covid deaths)  Just because we are used to it happening every year?    The definitions seem a tad murky to me.  H1N1 had more than 60 million cases in the US (with less deaths than covid) and used to be a pandemic, but it's not any longer, just because it happens every year.  And yet HIV happens every year for over 40 years, and is still considered a pandemic?  Seems wacky to me.

And HIV kills nearly a million people a year, far more than covid, yet both are considered pandemics because they have such a broad geographical range.

All of this, not to argue with you, just mulling it over out loud here.  Clearly it was called a pandemic, whereas the flu never is.

I did find this blurb from the WHO on March 11th:
 

Quote

During a media briefing led by director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus on Wednesday, the agency announced that after “assessing this outbreak around the clock” and feeling “deeply concerned both by the alarming levels of spread and severity, and by the alarming levels of inaction,” the WHO has “made the assessment that #COVID19 can be characterized as a pandemic.”

So they called it a pandemic due to inaction as much as how much it had already spread.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Voice of Reason

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

10 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Why are we acting like it's just churches? They treated synagogues in NY the same way(rightfully so), and I'm sure mosques aren't exempt either. Follow the law or get shut down and called to appear in court, take your pick.

 

This isn't an anti religion thing. it's a public health matter.

Have you seen how many people in NYC are riding the subways nowadays?  Far more than are going to any churches or synagogues, I assure you.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Voice of Reason

[Steeleballz 7,550]

15 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

I forgot nothing, I simply quoted Merriam Webster.  Pandemic refers to the broad geographical range of a disease.

 

They also said:

I assume you mean that the flu isn't an epidemic nor a pandemic due to the slower spread?  Because every year, it sure does affect people all over the globe, as in a broad geographical range.  

Why was the 2017-18 flu considered an epidemic, and not a pandemic, since the flu is global? (I believe around 80,000 died in the US, roughly 4 times our current covid deaths)  Just because we are used to it happening every year?    The definitions seem a tad murky to me.  H1N1 had more than 60 million cases in the US (with less deaths than covid) and used to be a pandemic, but it's not any longer, just because it happens every year.  And yet HIV happens every year for over 40 years, and is still considered a pandemic?  Seems wacky to me.

And HIV kills nearly a million people a year, far more than covid, yet both are considered pandemics because they have such a broad geographical range.

All of this, not to argue with you, just mulling it over out loud here.  

I did find this blurb from the WHO on March 11th:
 

So they called it a pandemic due to inaction as much as how much it had already spread.

 

   Seasonal flu is considered epidemic (after an outbreak) because it is never global in scope at any given time. If it ever was, it could be called a pandemic, but it is almost always isolated geographically and by hemisphere. So the difference is that while flu may spread to every area of the world in a given year, it won't be in every area at the same time.

 

  It was also a poor choice for Webster to use Malaria as an example of a pandemic, since it has never been one to my knowledge, even at it's most widespread. It is generally endemic, with occasional epidemic outbreaks. 

 

  The references to H1N1 can get murky, because there are seasonal strains that have been circulating for years,  and also there was the novel strain in 2009 that became pandemic. The pandemic strain of H1N1 was genetically distinct from the seasonal H1N1 strains that were already circulating and there was very little immunity to it. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Steeleballz